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Do you guys accept games against Titans vs. regular 40k codices? Is there a point? I just got stomped by one in a pickup game, and there really wasn't any point in the game, as the army list I had, while strong against probably any other 'regular 40k' list, would never have done anything against this Titan. It was an auto-win situation for my opponent, and he agreed.

How do you all deal with the baseline lack of parity with IA Titans against regular 40k armies?

~Sincerely, Butt Hurt and Curious

You know IA isn't behind this, but that Titan's are allowed by the base 40k rulebook.

Thus..A titan in a game is infact, a Regular 40k List.

*Drops the Mike*

What 40k codex has Titans?

(I'm not talking about that Eldar LOW thingy, or Imperial Knights, I'm talking about Imperial Titans)

 jasper76 wrote:
What 40k codex has Titans?

Imperial Knights.

Oh and this in the rulebook.

Lords of War are the most powerful and destructive units to wage war in the 41st Millennium. They include towering monstrosities and super-heavy vehicles that bristle with enough weaponry to lay waste to anything foolish enough to stand before them. You’ll find a selection of Lords of War units in some codexes and in Warhammer 40,000: Escalation.

I think you replied before my edit.

I am not talking about Imperial KNights. I'm talking about actual Titans.

 jasper76 wrote:
What 40k codex has Titans?

(I'm not talking about that Eldar LOW thingy, or Imperial Knights, I'm talking about Imperial Titans)

Escalation... Which has the Warhound. The Phantom and Renvaent Titans are both titans as well. And will cause just as much damage as a Warhound.




I see you edited your first post. At least you are putting some thought into the topic now....

 jasper76 wrote:
I think you replied before my edit.

I am not talking about Imperial KNights. I'm talking about actual Titans.

So the Eldar Revanant, the Ork Stompa, The Warhound, and the things added through forgeworld's update of it. (Chaos Titan, Imperium Titan).

 jasper76 wrote:
What 40k codex has Titans?

(I'm not talking about that Eldar LOW thingy, or Imperial Knights, I'm talking about Imperial Titans)

Warhound and Reaver titans are in the apocalypse rulebook, other than that you're gonna have to rely on fan-made rules.

Yeah, the Eldar and Stompa LOWs are semi-easy to deal with.

I am talking about the Imperial Titan. It doesn't seem like it belongs against any kind of 40k army.

~Sincerely, A Little Less Butthurt


Automatically Appended Next Post:

lycio wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
What 40k codex has Titans?

(I'm not talking about that Eldar LOW thingy, or Imperial Knights, I'm talking about Imperial Titans)

Warhound and Reaver titans are in the apocalypse rulebook, other than that you're gonna have to rely on fan-made rules.

It was a Warhound, now that you have jogged my frustrated memory. So this wasn't from an IA book at all??? Grrrrr.....

 jasper76 wrote:
Do you guys accept games against Titans vs. regular 40k codices? Is there a point? I just got stomped by one in a pickup game, and there really wasn't any point in the game, as the army list I had, while strong against probably any other 'regular 40k' list, would never have done anything against this Titan. It was an auto-win situation for my opponent, and he agreed.

How do you all deal with the baseline lack of parity with IA Titans against regular 40k armies?

~Sincerely, Butt Hurt and Curious

GW wrote the rules that allows Titans in normal games. GW wrote the D weapon rules. GW wrote the rules for most of the current Titan models and all of their weapons, they're in the Apocalypse book.

FW just casts the resin for them a this point. The only rules they write for them is largely just copy-pasted from GW (e.g. GW made rules for the loyalist Reaver titan, but not the Chaos one).


They shouldn't be available in normal games really, but GW wants to sell kits and let anyone do anything they want to "forge a narrative".

 jasper76 wrote:
Yeah, the Eldar and Stompa LOWs are semi-easy to deal with.

I am talking about the Imperial Titan. It doesn't seem like it belongs against any kind of 40k army.

~Sincerely, A Little Less Butthurt


Automatically Appended Next Post:

lycio wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
What 40k codex has Titans?

(I'm not talking about that Eldar LOW thingy, or Imperial Knights, I'm talking about Imperial Titans)

Warhound and Reaver titans are in the apocalypse rulebook, other than that you're gonna have to rely on fan-made rules.

It was a Warhound. So this wasn't from an IA book at all??? Grrrrr.....

a Warhound should be no harder to deal with than a Renvaent.

Sorry, it was presented to me as an 'Imperial Titan', and I was told the rules were from an IA book. Someone later said, "don't worry, he always wins with that Warhound" or some such, so I guess I don't know what kind of Titan it was, although the guy said the rules came from an IA book.

Methinks I may have been cheated...

 jasper76 wrote:
Sorry, it was presented to me as an 'Imperial Titan', and I was told the rules were from an IA book.

Methinks I have been cheated.

Keep in mind, the rules for the Warhound have been printed several times recently, and may be available in multiple sources. I THINK that escalation has the most up to date source for them,but I could be wrong.


I would suggest next time, calmly making a decent topic like "I just fought a Warhound, and got demolished, Seeking advice" then explain your situation. This will be much better than spamming the forum and causing all kinds of confusion. We could have gotten to the bottom of this problem much sooner.

They were at one point in an IA book, but currently all the Imperial Titans (warhound and reaver) are in the Apocalypse book.

Always insist an opponent actually have the rules on them if they're trying to play something like that.

This situation sounds very much like a classic example of what makes people hate FW stuff, unfortunately without it really being their fault

@Sasori: You're right. I'm a bit in the bottle now, so my apologies.

Anyway, for me personally, and incidentally my opponent, it was a stupid game. I'll just put the kaibosh on anything that includes the word "Titan" and be done with it. It's hard enough getting even games out of 40k without adding long range D weapons in the mix.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vaktathi wrote:
They were at one point in an IA book, but currently all the Imperial Titans (warhound and reaver) are in the Apocalypse book.

Always insist an opponent actually have the rules on them if they're trying to play something like that.

This situation sounds very much like a classic example of what makes people hate FW stuff, unfortunately without it really being their fault

So that's the problem with IA. There are so many friggin books, how in the world are you supposed to know what is dated and what is not. Was I supposed to ask the version of the IA he was using, and be expected to know if it is still legit.

Easiest solution in my mind...no IA books.

 jasper76 wrote:
Sorry, it was presented to me as an 'Imperial Titan', and I was told the rules were from an IA book. Someone later said, "don't worry, he always wins with that Warhound" or some such, so I guess I don't know what kind of Titan it was, although the guy said the rules came from an IA book.

Methinks I may have been cheated...

A Warhound titan is(or was) the smallest class of Imperial Titan. I'm sure they are in a Forgeworld book somewhere, but they are also in the Apoc book, and I believe, the Escalation book as well. Remember Escalation is a legal expansion of regular 40k.
you do have a right to refuse to play anyone.. unless they have an actual gun?? I could refuse to play necron flying croissant spam.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jasper76 wrote:


So that's the problem with IA. There are so many friggin books, how in the world are you supposed to know what is dated and what is not. Was I supposed to ask the version of the IA he was using, and be expected to know if it is still legit.

Easiest solution in my mind...no IA books.

How do I know if you have the latest Blood Angel book? I don't know what it looks like because no one plays it when I'm around.

 Pyeatt wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
Sorry, it was presented to me as an 'Imperial Titan', and I was told the rules were from an IA book. Someone later said, "don't worry, he always wins with that Warhound" or some such, so I guess I don't know what kind of Titan it was, although the guy said the rules came from an IA book.

Methinks I may have been cheated...

A Warhound titan is(or was) the smallest class of Imperial Titan. I'm sure they are in a Forgeworld book somewhere, but they are also in the Apoc book, and I believe, the Escalation book as well. Remember Escalation is a legal expansion of regular 40k.
you do have a right to refuse to play anyone.. unless they have an actual gun?? I could refuse to play necron flying croissant spam.

I

I personally wouldn't back away from armies until after I have played them, and that hasn't happened until tonight with this Titan nonsense.

Next time I see the guy I'll ask him exactly what his 'Imperial Titan' was, and whether its legal. In either case, I won't play it again, unless I have the same thing coming back at him. It was not a game I could have won, even on my best night with nothing but 4s, 5s, and 6s.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Pyeatt wrote:

How do I know if you have the latest Blood Angel book? I don't know what it looks like because no one plays it when I'm around.

I know what the current BA book is.

There are 13 IA books. Which ones are still good, and which ones are now bad?

Is there a list of the books that are legit? I seriously want to know so I don't get cheated or what not.

 jasper76 wrote:
@Sasori: You're right. I'm a bit in the bottle now, so my apologies.

Anyway, for me personally, and incidentally my opponent, it was a stupid game. I'll just put the kaibosh on anything that includes the word "Titan" and be done with it. It's hard enough getting even games out of 40k without adding long range D weapons in the mix.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vaktathi wrote:
They were at one point in an IA book, but currently all the Imperial Titans (warhound and reaver) are in the Apocalypse book.

Always insist an opponent actually have the rules on them if they're trying to play something like that.

This situation sounds very much like a classic example of what makes people hate FW stuff, unfortunately without it really being their fault

So that's the problem with IA. There are so many friggin books, how in the world are you supposed to know what is dated and what is not. Was I supposed to ask the version of the IA he was using, and be expected to know if it is still legit.

Easiest solution in my mind...no IA books.

A two second google search will fix that however.

We have a handly list right here on Dakka that goes through each unit and list http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Forge_World_and_Apocalypse_Rules_Index

Wikipedia has some info as well, including which books are obsolete.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_%28Warhammer_40,000%29#Imperial_Armour

Not that much difference than codex books (there's been 5 different Codex books for the Imperial Guard over time for instance)

So you expect a player with an IA book will respect what DakkaDakka.com or Wikipedia.org has to say as to what IA books are still good, and what are bad??? I wouldn't. These aren't sources.

Is there a list available from GW?

@Vaktathi Exalted

 jasper76 wrote:
@Sasori: You're right. I'm a bit in the bottle now, so my apologies.

Anyway, for me personally, and incidentally my opponent, it was a stupid game. I'll just put the kaibosh on anything that includes the word "Titan" and be done with it. It's hard enough getting even games out of 40k without adding long range D weapons in the mix.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vaktathi wrote:
They were at one point in an IA book, but currently all the Imperial Titans (warhound and reaver) are in the Apocalypse book.

Always insist an opponent actually have the rules on them if they're trying to play something like that.

This situation sounds very much like a classic example of what makes people hate FW stuff, unfortunately without it really being their fault

So that's the problem with IA. There are so many friggin books, how in the world are you supposed to know what is dated and what is not. Was I supposed to ask the version of the IA he was using, and be expected to know if it is still legit.

Easiest solution in my mind...no IA books.

The problem is, you don't want to paint all of forgeworld with that brush. Forgeworld makes some incredible models and rules, which the vast majority are very balanced. There are very few units that are actually overpowered.

Don't let your bad experience with a Warhound (Which is a regular unit anyway) spoil the greatness that is FW.

 jasper76 wrote:
So you expect a player with an IA book will respect what Dakka or Wikipedia has to say as to what IA books are still good, and what are bad???

Is there a list available from GW?

What would you do if we both met up in the game store (neither of us knowing each other) and I brought in a soft-covered Grey Knight book? You simply have to play the latest version. That is unless you're in one of those designated "3rd edition" gamer groups you find floating around. Speaking of which, I had the absolute worst time with that before we got the new Grey Knight codex, because I insisted on continuing to play my inquisitor HQ. It was in my book. And that was the latest Grey Knight book. Fun times.

 jasper76 wrote:
So you expect a player with an IA book will respect what DakkaDakka.com or Wikipedia.org has to say as to what IA books are still good, and what are bad???

It's a resource that's out there, and largely kept pretty up to date within a few days/weeks of any particular release, which I can't find any notable errors with. Use it or not.

Is there a list available from GW?

No, but by the same token, but there's no official list for which iteration of Codex: Space Marines is most up to date either

We have weird related issues from GW as well, the Chimera currently has different rules in an "Astra Militarum" army list, being both more expensive and with fewer firing ports, than in an Inquisition army list which still uses the older rules, and GW hasn't bothered to update that either

@Sasori, I'm noty sure it was a Warhound. It might have been a Reaver or something else.

Anyway, I can't seriously present something from this site, or Wikipedia especially, as a legit source as to what IA rules are still good or bad.

Does GW or FW have a list?


@Vakathi: The difference to me is that the new Space Marine Codex overwrites the old one.

Does IA 13 overwrite all previous IA editions? I seriously do not know, because I never bought any IA books.

 jasper76 wrote:
@Sasori, I'm noty sure it was a Warhound. It might have been a Reaver or something else.

Anyway, I can't seriously present something from this site, or Wikipedia especially, as a legit source as to what IA rules are still good or bad.

Does GW or FW have a list?

If it was a Reaver, then you got cheated fair and square. The points for it are far outside normal games of 40k.


That's really the gist of it. You can present the list to an honest player, and they would have no problem with it. If a player gets all upset and starts flipping out about it, it's likely that ins't the kind of person you want to play anyway;.

@Sasori: If I ever cast any bad light on my opponent, I didn't mean to. I think I said "I might have been cheated", but I don't think in any way whatsoever that it was intentional. I play whit this guy all the time and he's a good guy.

He was referencing an IA book. If it was old and out of date, I'm just wondering if there's a GW or FW publication that actually says its old and out of date. We both agreed it was nonsensical to play this game again. At this point, I am just asking in case I run into another player who is not so honest, using IA1 or whatever when it shouldn't be allowed to be played.

 jasper76 wrote:
@Sasori: If I ever cast any bad light on my opponent, I didn't mean to. I think I said "I might have been cheated", but I don't think in any way whatsoever that it was intentional. I play whit this guy all the time and he's a good guy.

He was referencing an IA book. If it was old and out of date, I'm just wondering if there's a GW or FW publication that actually says its old and out of date. We both agreed it was nonsensical to play this game again. At this point, I am just asking in case I run into another player who is not so honest.

There is no official list. The best thing you can do is arm yourself with the knowledge, so that you know.

Unfortunately there's no official list from GW as to which IA book has the latest rules for a unit. They appear to be about as interested in that as providing comprehensive FAQ and Errata (i.e. not very).

It'd be helpful, but alas...

@Sasori: So if there is no official list, there is no official knowledge.

So anyone can say any IA book they own is legit.

I come back to my opinion...no IA books. By saying this, I'm not judging people who choose to play with IA books, but I don't see any other way around the issue of what rules are allowed, and what rules are not allowed, since there doesn't seem to be anything that says older books are disallowed.

(People I play with have never heard of this website, so I can't use the list our friend so kindly provided here, and Wikipedia is just a popular vote)

Do we not all have smartphones and tablets? Just take a minute to bookmark those sites that list the relevant codexes.