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Hey all,

I am just starting to get into the whole scene and i am looking for some more backround.

The most import thing to me is a good and smart writing style with no plot holes. Storywise i would like something about the Space Wolfs or/and possible tyranid encounters.

Regards

'nids... you want Sandy Mitchell's Cain novels.

Space Wolves? You can't have a Space Wolf story with no plot holes. Sorry.

The best books in 40k are the Horus Heresy Series, which I highly recommend. Not only are they excellent books, but will introduce lots of the main chapters and characters and the HH is pretty much the big defining moment that underpins 40k. (At least from the Space Marines/IoM/CSMs PoV.)

The Space Wolves Omnibus is pretty good for a Wolves book, but I never finished the third book.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
'nids... you want Sandy Mitchell's Cain novels.

Space Wolves? You can't have a Space Wolf story with no plot holes. Sorry.

Space Wolves stories just exist in a parallel 40K universe where the Space Wolves get to do whatever they want, even if it contradicts any or all known fluff or reason, as long as they look cool doing it.

Super sweet beards when we need to be able to lock vacuum seals on helmets? Yep, we do that. Have super sweet extra potent beer so we can get drunk even though Space Marines should be immune to common blood poisoning? Yep, we do that. Getting inducted into the chapter for feats of martial prowess even though technically we'd need to have the first implants by the time we were 12 years old? Yep, we do that. Getting with the ladies before recruitment, again despite the whole "need to be twelve or less years old thing? Duh, of course. We just wait until we're like 16, because reasons. That's cool. And thus that's what we do. Because we're Space Wolves.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
'nids... you want Sandy Mitchell's Cain novels.

Space Wolves? You can't have a Space Wolf story with no plot holes. Sorry.

Space Wolves stories just exist in a parallel 40K universe where the Space Wolves get to do whatever they want, even if it contradicts any or all known fluff or reason, as long as they look cool doing it.

Super sweet beards when we need to be able to lock vacuum seals on helmets? Yep, we do that. Have super sweet extra potent beer so we can get drunk even though Space Marines should be immune to common blood poisoning? Yep, we do that. Getting inducted into the chapter for feats of martial prowess even though technically we'd need to have the first implants by the time we were 12 years old? Yep, we do that. Getting with the ladies before recruitment, again despite the whole "need to be twelve or less years old thing? Duh, of course. We just wait until we're like 16, because reasons. That's cool. And thus that's what we do. Because we're Space Wolves.

Not to mention their Adam West superpowers.

The HH is best left as barely-remembered myths and legends, the stories and tales of which have taken on epic proportions, of a time when gods (the Emperor and his sons) walked among men.

It's far less-interesting to read the actual accounts of these things, especially when GW seems to want to make the legends and myths true (sort of).

But, I will say the HH books are good if your interested in them. Know no Fear, Galaxy in flames, Unremembered Empire and even Deliverance Lost are fairly entertaining reads. some of them are very good if your interested, but look up which ones are universally acclaimed to avoid things like Battle of the Abyss.

I can also suggest the Hammer and Bolter anthologies for loads of stories. Raven's Flight, Long Games and The Last Detail are all great reads in those books in my opinion.


But since you asked about Tyranids, Ciaphas Cain is a good series. Sin of Damnation deals with genestealers and that 2nd book in the 1st Ultramarine trilogy has a huge battle against the buggers

I would recommend Dan Abnett's Eisenhorn trilogy, followed by his Ravenor trilogy, to get a good glimpse of the Inquisition and its workings, as well as Imperial life outside of the warzones.

There's a brief appearance by Tyranids in one of the Ravenor books, too,

After that, I would suggest one of Abnett's "Gaunt's Ghosts" story arcs. Though there is like 20 books in the entire GG series, most of the stories are contained in 3-book arcs, and each arc is a different facet of life in the IG, generally determined by the planet the war they are fighting. So you have "Vietnam Planet", "WW1 Planet", "Urban Warfare Planet" and so on, with the same cast of characters from the same IG Regiment.

Ciaphas Cain. More Nids than you can shake a stick at in those novels. They seem to be Sandy Mitchell's go-to badguy.

 Psienesis wrote:
The HH is best left as barely-remembered myths and legends, the stories and tales of which have taken on epic proportions, of a time when gods (the Emperor and his sons) walked among men.

It's far less-interesting to read the actual accounts of these things, especially when GW seems to want to make the legends and myths true (sort of).

I think the bigger from with the Heresy novels is that they've settled into full Cash Cow Mode.

The original stories were told mostly from the perspectives of normal humans and foot slogging Marine officers as they observed the Primarchs' actions. Now the novels seem to be about shoehorning as many primarchs into a novel as possible so they can do SuperCool™ things and have EpicPrimarchFistfights™ where nobody gets hurt and something convenient happens so everyone can be dragged too safely to FightAnotherDay™.

The last novel where the majority of the page count was devoted to events of any importance to the overall Horus Heresy plot was possibly Know No Fear. Everything since then has been mostly filler. Betrayer for example, was 250 pages of filler packed in around a short novella about Lorgar taking Angron back to his home planet in order to finalize his transition to a Daemon Prince. but for some reason had Ultramarines in it so that there could be an EpicPrimarchFistfight™ and reach the 416PageCount™. Vengeful Spirit was 250 pages of filler about "BuyKnightsModels!". And Unremembered Novel had EpicPrimarchFistfights™ and inexplicable plot holes that they're going to need to explain later, lol. And I'm not sure we really want to know those answers, to be honest.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
The HH is best left as barely-remembered myths and legends, the stories and tales of which have taken on epic proportions, of a time when gods (the Emperor and his sons) walked among men.

It's far less-interesting to read the actual accounts of these things, especially when GW seems to want to make the legends and myths true (sort of).

I think the bigger from with the Heresy novels is that they've settled into full Cash Cow Mode.

The original stories were told mostly from the perspectives of normal humans and foot slogging Marine officers as they observed the Primarchs' actions. Now the novels seem to be about shoehorning as many primarchs into a novel as possible so they can do SuperCool™ things and have EpicPrimarchFistfights™ where nobody gets hurt and something convenient happens so everyone can be dragged too safely to FightAnotherDay™.

The last novel where the majority of the page count was devoted to events of any importance to the overall Horus Heresy plot was possibly Know No Fear. Everything since then has been mostly filler. Betrayer for example, was 250 pages of filler packed in around a short novella about Lorgar taking Angron back to his home planet in order to finalize his transition to a Daemon Prince. but for some reason had Ultramarines in it so that there could be an EpicPrimarchFistfight™ and reach the 416PageCount™. Vengeful Spirit was 250 pages of filler about "BuyKnightsModels!". And Unremembered Novel had EpicPrimarchFistfights™ and inexplicable plot holes that they're going to need to explain later, lol. And I'm not sure we really want to know those answers, to be honest.

Yep.

Which is sad, really, because I think, in the hands of the right authors and practicing some restraint (I know, this is 40K, but bear with me) then we could get some really good glimpses of the things that would set in motion the events that would lead to the elements of the Imperium of M40 that we recognize.

Instead, well, it's Primarchs Primarching.

I hear a lot of good things about Horus Heresy series (as a lot of people recommended up there).

The only thing I would stay away from is the Space Marine Battle Books.... the white colored cover ones with different chapter for each book. Some of them (I actually HIGHLY recommend Helsreach) are very good (Siege of Castellax is also worthy of mention) but the rest - from what I've read - were pretty lackluster.

And I would say the exact opposite, with Legion of the Damned, Death of Integrity, Rynn's World, and Wrath of Iron all being fantastic.

As for the Heresy, I frankly don't give a damn about 15+ year old lore and never will, so any talk of "lore rape" I find meaningless. Though I do wish McNeil and Abnett would go work on something else for a little while. Lately, they've both been more trouble than they're worth.

Anything written by Abbnet.

 Psienesis wrote:
The HH is best left as barely-remembered myths and legends, the stories and tales of which have taken on epic proportions, of a time when gods (the Emperor and his sons) walked among men.

It's far less-interesting to read the actual accounts of these things, especially when GW seems to want to make the legends and myths true (sort of).

Or horribly trash them. I'll never forgive McNeil for False Gods.

Also, for general excellent titles I would recommend anything written by ADB or Rob Sanders. I have never read a story by either of those authors I haven't liked. Gav Thorpe is good too, although he's had some misses.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
The HH is best left as barely-remembered myths and legends, the stories and tales of which have taken on epic proportions, of a time when gods (the Emperor and his sons) walked among men.

It's far less-interesting to read the actual accounts of these things, especially when GW seems to want to make the legends and myths true (sort of).

I think the bigger from with the Heresy novels is that they've settled into full Cash Cow Mode.

The original stories were told mostly from the perspectives of normal humans and foot slogging Marine officers as they observed the Primarchs' actions. Now the novels seem to be about shoehorning as many primarchs into a novel as possible so they can do SuperCool™ things and have EpicPrimarchFistfights™ where nobody gets hurt and something convenient happens so everyone can be dragged too safely to FightAnotherDay™.

The last novel where the majority of the page count was devoted to events of any importance to the overall Horus Heresy plot was possibly Know No Fear. Everything since then has been mostly filler. Betrayer for example, was 250 pages of filler packed in around a short novella about Lorgar taking Angron back to his home planet in order to finalize his transition to a Daemon Prince. but for some reason had Ultramarines in it so that there could be an EpicPrimarchFistfight™ and reach the 416PageCount™. Vengeful Spirit was 250 pages of filler about "BuyKnightsModels!". And Unremembered Novel had EpicPrimarchFistfights™ and inexplicable plot holes that they're going to need to explain later, lol. And I'm not sure we really want to know those answers, to be honest.

The only HH books I read now are those on the Dark Angels or Night Lords. After I read Battle for the Abyss, I just lost it completely and gave up on the series. It's even more insonsistent then the Black Library is, with characters being traded off to different authors so often that the characters themselves aren't fething consistent. Case and point, Fulgrim. The first novel was great with Fulgrim's fall being masterfully crafted and tragic in a very Grecian way. Except apparently Fulgrim somehow circumvented daemon possession because LOLPRIMARCH.

 Wyzilla wrote:
It's even more insonsistent then the Black Library is, with characters being traded off to different authors so often that the characters themselves aren't fething consistent. Case and point, Fulgrim. The first novel was great with Fulgrim's fall being masterfully crafted and tragic in a very Grecian way. Except apparently Fulgrim somehow circumvented daemon possession because LOLPRIMARCH.

Except both of those were McNeil.

Serpent Beneath is good, not read much good stuff tbh.

jareddm wrote:
And I would say the exact opposite, with Legion of the Damned, Death of Integrity, Rynn's World, and Wrath of Iron all being fantastic.

Ah my bad, Rynn's World and Wrath of Iron (although Wrath of Iron wasn't Space Marine Battle series...) are fairly good. I'd have to disagree with Legion of the Damned (it was... not good me thinks) but to each his own eh?

 Zaki66 wrote:
Ah my bad, Rynn's World and Wrath of Iron (although Wrath of Iron wasn't Space Marine Battle series...) are fairly good. I'd have to disagree with Legion of the Damned (it was... not good me thinks) but to each his own eh?

http://www.blacklibrary.com/Images/Product/DefaultBL/xlarge/Wrath-of-Iron.jpg

Sure looks like that says 'Space Marine Battles' at the top

Also, I hope you didn't go into Legion of the Damned expecting the tell-all story about the Legion of the Damned. The back of the book was quite clear that the book was focused on the Excoriators, and Rob Sanders has stated that the title is in reference to three different "damned legions", the Excoriators for being an outcast successor of Dorn, the Cholercaust for being one of the traitor legions, and the actual Legion of the Damned. However, if there was some other issue you had with the book, then I rescind my comment.

The... Cholercaust?

Good lord. That's so ridiculously awful, haha. Translates to "The Irritated Burning".

Hopefully somebody had some ointment or something to clear that up.

William kings space wolf series is grest so is the Battle of the fang by chris Wright.

Horus heresy books id go for Legion and Fear to Tread.

Matthew Farrer's Enforcer series is pretty good (not a fan of book 3, but tastes vary), following the career of an Arbiter.

I've also enjoyed James Swallow's "Faith and Fire" series on the Sisters of Battle.

You should start with William King's "Space Wolf". It's a good intro book to 40K and also....it has Space Wolves in it.

Yep, the Space Wolf Omnibus isn't bad. There's a bit of fluff heresy and a fair bit of your typical '10k year old marine can't shoot straight and loyal armour is invincible' but it has some cool settings and involves Orks in one book.

Abnett!

Eisenhorn trilogy!

Amazing!

MarsNZ wrote:
Yep, the Space Wolf Omnibus isn't bad. There's a bit of fluff heresy and a fair bit of your typical '10k year old marine can't shoot straight and loyal armour is invincible' but it has some cool settings and involves Orks in one book.

The Space Wolf Omnibus is pretty good, but some of the stuff that are in them seem like everybody is wearing an invisible TDA suit. for instance, a single squad of Blood Claws Primarching their way through like 300 grenade-throwing aliens and then somehow defeating some kind of Chaos Champion. I understand that this is Ragnar we're talking about, but even if he is one of the strongest Space Wolves, he should have been buried under a pile of aliens and then got blown up by one of the grenades that the CSM gave the aliens. They should have at least made a few of the Space Wolves wolf out and then use their furry claws of fury to gut the aliens like fish and then somehow turn back into humans after they escaped the cave.
Also, a single Wolf Guard Pack Leader taking on an entire CSM Squad and somehow not getting obliterated within five seconds.
The first book of the SW Omnibus gives you a pretty good glimpse into the life of your average Fenrisian and it does a fantastic job of detailing the process of going from human to Space Wolf. Also, in response to the person complaining about a 16-year-old becoming an Astartes:
a.) a quirk in the Space Wolf gene-seed allows for this
b.) the Canis Helix allows some older adolescents to become Astartes
c.) BECAUSE SPEHS MAHREENS!!!!!

This isn't Nam Smokey. It's 40K. There are rules.


Unless you're Space Wolves.

 dusara217 wrote:

MarsNZ wrote:
Yep, the Space Wolf Omnibus isn't bad. There's a bit of fluff heresy and a fair bit of your typical '10k year old marine can't shoot straight and loyal armour is invincible' but it has some cool settings and involves Orks in one book.

The Space Wolf Omnibus is pretty good, but some of the stuff that are in them seem like everybody is wearing an invisible TDA suit. for instance, a single squad of Blood Claws Primarching their way through like 300 grenade-throwing aliens and then somehow defeating some kind of Chaos Champion. I understand that this is Ragnar we're talking about, but even if he is one of the strongest Space Wolves, he should have been buried under a pile of aliens and then got blown up by one of the grenades that the CSM gave the aliens. They should have at least made a few of the Space Wolves wolf out and then use their furry claws of fury to gut the aliens like fish and then somehow turn back into humans after they escaped the cave.
Also, a single Wolf Guard Pack Leader taking on an entire CSM Squad and somehow not getting obliterated within five seconds.
The first book of the SW Omnibus gives you a pretty good glimpse into the life of your average Fenrisian and it does a fantastic job of detailing the process of going from human to Space Wolf. Also, in response to the person complaining about a 16-year-old becoming an Astartes:
a.) a quirk in the Space Wolf gene-seed allows for this
b.) the Canis Helix allows some older adolescents to become Astartes
c.) BECAUSE SPEHS MAHREENS!!!!!

Yeah I did really enjoy that first book actually.

I enjoyed it too, I just assumed that Fenris is so tough that Ragnar really was ten years old when he died heroically in battle.

... I was young and naive in those days.

Do they even say his age? I didn't notice that I assumed he was 14ish.