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In the title really, but just in case...

Can drop pods land in areas designated as ruins?

As long as it isn't impassible terrain, all good.

Why not? Its not impassable terrain.

 grendel083 wrote:
As long as it isn't impassible terrain, all good.

Great, thanks for the quick answer - I don't have the BRB to hand and couldn't remember the rule against ruins

Just be aware it lands on the bottom level like all deep strikes. If the model doesn't fit, you'll have to tell your opponent where it is and use the "wobbly model" rule and use a marker for where it is on the bottom level.

Does it have to pass dangerous terrain though? Does it loose 2 HP if failed cause it's allready immobilized?

Yes, it has to test for dangerous terrain.

No, it didn't lose two hull points, because it's not immobilised until after it lands.

Yep it makes sence that a flying drop-pod is not immobilized untill it actually lands and stops it's movement.

 insaniak wrote:
Yes, it has to test for dangerous terrain.

No, it didn't lose two hull points, because it's not immobilised until after it lands.

I'm going to have to disagree with the second point you made. The drop pod has the Immobile special rule. It tells us the pod cannot move after it arrives, and is treated as suffering an immobilized damage result. The pod has arrived and upon finishing it's move in difficult terrain it takes a dangerous terrain test. If a 1 comes up, the pod loses a hull point and suffers an immobilized result. This second immobilized result causes it to lose an additional hull point, leaving it at one.

a drop pod doenst lose a hull point when it arrives, if someone told you that, he is cheating you.... now if they drop pod lands in dangerous terrian, you make your test, and if you fail it, it loses a hull point... also to note, is if the drop pod lands in dangerous terrian, the models getting out have to make dangerous terrian tests also....which is funny, i have a friend that puts a dreadnaught in drop pod and drops it all the time, usually into dangerous terrian, and the drop pod lands fine, but the dreadnaught gets immoblized when it gets out, runs a 1 on the test, and it doesnt have an armour save.... kind of funny

Being immobilized does not make you lose a Hull Point. But if the model suffers an immobilized damage when it is already immobilized then it DOES lose an extra Hull Point. Thus failing a Dangerous Terrain check will make the Drop Pod lose 2 Hull Points (1 for the damage and 1 for being immobilized while already immobilized).

The lesson here is you can drop pod in terrain if you want but doing so can be dangerous...

Hmm.

BRB wrote:
each model must take a Dangerous Terrain test
as soon as it enters, leaves or moves within dangerous terrain.

I do believe you take dangerous terrain test during movement, not after you have finished moving. If so, the pod has not yet become immobilized.

I could be wrong. But that is what it looks like to me.

Whether it becomes immobilized before the check or after the check, it still suffers 'immobilized' while already being immobilized and thus loses a Hull Point.

Zimko wrote:
Whether it becomes immobilized before the check or after the check, it still suffers 'immobilized' while already being immobilized and thus loses a Hull Point.

I have to disagree.

The immobile rule on pods is not equated to suffering an immobilized result (there are many previous threads on this so I'm not going into that debate here). As a result, the pod takes a dangerous terrain test. If it fails, it suffers a single HP loss + immobilized result. It does not then suffer an immobilized result when its movement is over, so it does not take an additional HP.

There's also this now that we're in 7th (updated from 6th that did not have it);

BRB wrote:
Vehicle Damage Results and Hull Points
Occasionally, a rule will state that a vehicle will suffer the effects of a Crew Shaken, Crew Stunned, Weapon Destroyed or Immobilised result. Unless that rule also specifies that
the vehicle suffers a glancing hit, a penetrating hit, or otherwise states that the vehicle loses a Hull Point, only the relevant result on the Vehicle Damage chart is applied to the
vehicle and no Hull Points are lost.

And from C:SM (also updated rules from previous editions where it said "suffers an immobilized result")

Codex Space Marines wrote:
Immobile: A Drop Pod cannot move once it has entered play, and counts in all respects
as a vehicle that has suffered an Immobilised damage result that cannot be repaired in
any way. Note that this does not cause it to lose a Hull Point.

So, you enter dangerous terrain, take a test and fail. The vehicle is immediately immobilized and suffers the loss of 1 HP.
The vehicle (drop pod) now finishes its movement phase and "counts as immobilized" (not "suffers an immobilized result" or counts as "suffering an immobilized result"). It's already immobilized however. So what do we do? Nothing further. All rules are followed.

If what you quoted from the Space Marine codex is exact then that means it is already immobilized when it arrives. So when you take the Dangerous Terrain test, it is already immoblized. Right?

Zimko wrote:
If what you quoted from the Space Marine codex is exact then that means it is already immobilized when it arrives. So when you take the Dangerous Terrain test, it is already immoblized. Right?

See the update above.

Ok, so is a Difficult Terrain test taken before or after the model enters play from Deep Strike?

Zimko wrote:
Ok, so is a Difficult Terrain test taken before or after the model enters play from Deep Strike?

IMO it has not completed its deployment (and therefore has not actually entered play) until after it has taken the test and completed its deep strike...

However, going through the rules I have found another concern;

The unit is required to move into/through/out of the terrain to trigger a test.
Deep Striking is deployment, not movement (again, covered many times over in other, now locked threads).
Scatter is also not movement.

Perhaps there is no test after all?

Rorschach9 wrote:

Zimko wrote:
Ok, so is a Difficult Terrain test taken before or after the model enters play from Deep Strike?

IMO it has not completed its deployment (and therefore has not actually entered play) until after it has taken the test and completed its deep strike...

However, going through the rules I have found another concern;

The unit is required to move into/through/out of the terrain to trigger a test.
Deep Striking is deployment, not movement (again, covered many times over in other, now locked threads).
Scatter is also not movement.

Perhaps there is no test after all?

So the rule that Deep Striking models treat Difficult Terrain as Dangerous means absolutely nothing?

Perhaps there is no test after all?

That's a possibility.

But if there is a test, then it has to be after the unit already arrives. Which means a failure would result in an Immobilized result while the Drop Pod is already Immobilized, thus it would lose a total of 2 Hull Points.

The only way to get around this is if the Deep Strike rules tell you to take a Dangerous Terrain test before placing the models. Otherwise, placing the model would immediately Immobilize the Drop Pod, before any Dangerous Terrains tests.

@ Happyjew; I guess thats possible for the initial landing if that's true, but any movement they made in the same turn the deployed such as running/disembarking would still be dangerous terrain.

Sounds interesting for those DS raiders/ravagers and WWP units...if true.

 Happyjew wrote:

Rorschach9 wrote:

Zimko wrote:
Ok, so is a Difficult Terrain test taken before or after the model enters play from Deep Strike?

IMO it has not completed its deployment (and therefore has not actually entered play) until after it has taken the test and completed its deep strike...

However, going through the rules I have found another concern;

The unit is required to move into/through/out of the terrain to trigger a test.
Deep Striking is deployment, not movement (again, covered many times over in other, now locked threads).
Scatter is also not movement.

Perhaps there is no test after all?

So the rule that Deep Striking models treat Difficult Terrain as Dangerous means absolutely nothing?

I can think of at least one army that can move after deep striking that this would apply to.

Are you trying to say that Deep Strike = movement? Or that the Dangerous Terrain rules mentioning movement include deployment?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Zimko wrote:

Perhaps there is no test after all?

That's a possibility.

But if there is a test, then it has to be after the unit already arrives.

Why? If the DS is considered as movement (to trigger the test) then it has not finished its deployment prior to having to take the test. It has not actually arrived prior to finishing its deployment.

Which means a failure would result in an Immobilized result while the Drop Pod is already Immobilized, thus it would lose a total of 2 Hull Points.

The only way to get around this is if the Deep Strike rules tell you to take a Dangerous Terrain test before placing the models. Otherwise, placing the model would immediately Immobilize the Drop Pod, before any Dangerous Terrains tests.

Has the model "arrived" prior to finishing the Deep Strike process?

Rorschach9 wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

Rorschach9 wrote:

Zimko wrote:
Ok, so is a Difficult Terrain test taken before or after the model enters play from Deep Strike?

IMO it has not completed its deployment (and therefore has not actually entered play) until after it has taken the test and completed its deep strike...

However, going through the rules I have found another concern;

The unit is required to move into/through/out of the terrain to trigger a test.
Deep Striking is deployment, not movement (again, covered many times over in other, now locked threads).
Scatter is also not movement.

Perhaps there is no test after all?

So the rule that Deep Striking models treat Difficult Terrain as Dangerous means absolutely nothing?

I can think of at least one army that can move after deep striking that this would apply to.

Are you trying to say that Deep Strike = movement? Or that the Dangerous Terrain rules mentioning movement include deployment?

Yes, I'm claiming Deep Strike is movement. There are a number of reasons, however foremost is that Deep Striking models may not move further. If Deep Striking (in its entirety) were not movement, then "further" is pointless. The rule would work perfectly as "In the Movement phase during which they arrive, Deep Striking units may not move."

Varnos wrote:
a drop pod doenst lose a hull point when it arrives, if someone told you that, he is cheating you.... now if they drop pod lands in dangerous terrian, you make your test, and if you fail it, it loses a hull point... also to note, is if the drop pod lands in dangerous terrian, the models getting out have to make dangerous terrian tests also....which is funny, i have a friend that puts a dreadnaught in drop pod and drops it all the time, usually into dangerous terrian, and the drop pod lands fine, but the dreadnaught gets immoblized when it gets out, runs a 1 on the test, and it doesnt have an armour save.... kind of funny

You've been doing this wrong.

Dreadnoughts have Move Through Cover special rule and auto-pass dangerous terrain tests.

No they don't.

Ironclads do, but Dreadnoughts in general don't.

Ahh sorry i only use Ironclads.......

In regards to the dreadnought, they do not follow vehicle rules for entering difficult terrain. They are walkers, so they roll for difficult terrain movement like infantry. The following is under Movement with Walkers paragraph:

"Difficult terrain affects Walkers just as it does Infantry, and only counts as dangerous terrain if it would do so for Infantry."

Just going to state this, as I reviewed the Deep Strike Rules again:
They really are poorly written... I forgot what I was even researching them for again with how bad they are written.
Probably to confirm if Disembarking out of the Drop Pod is enough to trigger dangerous terrain tests... it is not, thanks to that strange mixing of Deployment and Movement that Deep Strike does.

Rorschach9 wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Zimko wrote:

Perhaps there is no test after all?

That's a possibility.

But if there is a test, then it has to be after the unit already arrives.

Why? If the DS is considered as movement (to trigger the test) then it has not finished its deployment prior to having to take the test. It has not actually arrived prior to finishing its deployment.

Which means a failure would result in an Immobilized result while the Drop Pod is already Immobilized, thus it would lose a total of 2 Hull Points.

The only way to get around this is if the Deep Strike rules tell you to take a Dangerous Terrain test before placing the models. Otherwise, placing the model would immediately Immobilize the Drop Pod, before any Dangerous Terrains tests.

Has the model "arrived" prior to finishing the Deep Strike process?

I would say the model has to have 'arrived' before a Dangerous Terrain test can be taken. The model 'enters' terrain at the exact moment it 'arrives'. THEN you take a Dangerous Terrain test.