Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I still think the Molochs are the weak point in the Abyssals line. Pot-bellies and legs half as long as they should be don't look very good.

Damn, completely forgot about the Morlocks stubby legs and weird proportions, well I guess I'll have to do some serious conversion work on those, lengthening the legs and replacing the head seems like the best start.

Just have to hope I can actually convert resnic models.

@Edlowe
Yeah good idea, tortured souls as missile troops would make sense IIRC the Abyss have no range options outside of magic (Zap!)

In terms of fliers they already have Gargoyles and by the looks of it both Succubi and Hellhounds for fast attack, so Effrits hard hitting magic casters maybe?

Something like Might & Magic's Juggernauts wouldn't have been anything particularly exciting, but it would at least have been functional. Plus, it would be cool to build a tabletop Inferno army of Cerberuses, Succubi, Maniacs and Juggernauts.

Those guys look pretty cool Alex, pretty normal by video game demon standards but still interesting visually, at least you could potentially convert something like those without too much work.

Now for the current stubby leg Morlocks I present two possible conversion ideas:

Demon's Souls Vanguard

Dark Souls Asylum Demon

I need to make this happen.

I've got a steady IV of incoming kickstarters and a hugemongous backlog, so if they get the plastics out to me slowly I won't mind if it's for quality's sake. If I order any... I've already got a sizeable skaven horde (probably 25% larger too after I de-base them all and get them spread out a little bit onto multibases eventually...), fairly robust undead force, and even some smurfs (and a couple of giants because why not!).

I'm in for hard plastic succubi. Don't care if I never use them.

So I was hoping to use this KS to buy my wife and I our first two armies and give the game a go, but was wondering if players could suggest at what level the game starts representing its rules well?

IE, you COULD play 40k at 500pts, but most would say it only really FEELS like 40k at 1500pts and upwards...

What "size" armies give a real flavor for the best aspects of Kings of War? And roughly what model count is that?

It can work at anything from 500 points up, but starts to shine from 1000-1200 points up. 1600-2000 on a 6x4 is the sweet spot.

The £50 army boxes tend to be around 800-1000 points, give or take. £100 box sets are"everything you'd need (barring characters you can kitbash from regular dudes), plus extras to swap in/out between games.

I was told the cut-off date for the new rulebook last night, and it's relatively close so I reckon there will be two shipments - the first with the new rulebook and the second with models funded. I don't see Mantic being able to produce the hard plastics in a timeframe that short.

^sounds about right! I figure that will make people just in for the books happy and people ordering models should maybe by now expect the longer wait as they check and recheck them for quality.

Thanks for the points info. Hopefully the Kickstarter will have some flavor of... "$300USD" gets you the hardbound new rules and two modestly sized armies, type of thing.

Any suggestions for a pair of armies that are a fun match-up on the table? Maybe some interesting, but contrasting playstyles?

privateer4hire wrote:

Mantic are passing up a good opportunity to partner with Warlord on historical humans.
They don't have to make a single new unit but can repackage pike & shotte, ancients (like Romans/Celts) and other black powder and before lines.
They save the costs associated with making a whole new line and Warlord sells more of their figs and they spllt the monies.

Split the monies? I suppose they could simply sell WLG's models on their website as a retailer - in the same way that they sell AoW models (or used to, I haven't checked for awhile). There are a fair few people out there who use KoW as a historical ruleset - with a few fan lists floating around. I haven't done so myself, but if they were going to partner with/sell WLG (or Perry) stuff, they could "officialise" those rules as well.

Really though - models are where the money is in this game, so they'd probably much rather you bought an Undead or Basilean army instead...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Thraxas Of Turai wrote:
True Grim, Mantic have a reliable and growing fanbase. It is also good to see the fantasy ruleset getting a bit of love this time. If the miniatures are going to be HIPS I think we should expect some longish (or perhaps realistic is a better term as many Kickstarters have unrealistic dates to not put off backers) delivery dates to offset some of the issues they have had with Deadzone plastics.

Yeah. Expect a year or more. Multiple waves of Pledge Managers. All the usual trappings. That's why I'll happily just get my rulebook and maybe see if a mate of mine wants to jump on for a rulebook and some (existing/wave 1) models as well, if they offer them at a good enough price.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
So I was hoping to use this KS to buy my wife and I our first two armies and give the game a go, but was wondering if players could suggest at what level the game starts representing its rules well?
IE, you COULD play 40k at 500pts, but most would say it only really FEELS like 40k at 1500pts and upwards...
What "size" armies give a real flavor for the best aspects of Kings of War? And roughly what model count is that?

In my experience, the armies start to feel like different, distinct, different forces at 1200+ (at a minimum).

Model count I'm not sure about. I base my models on 25mm rounds instead of 25mm squares so my models maintain compatibility with other skirmish systems (plus I prefer round bases!) So a unit of "20" only uses 12 models for me.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Thanks for the points info. Hopefully the Kickstarter will have some flavor of... "$300USD" gets you the hardbound new rules and two modestly sized armies, type of thing.

Any suggestions for a pair of armies that are a fun match-up on the table? Maybe some interesting, but contrasting playstyles?

I play orcs versus my brother in laws undead. They play completely different from each other, but both have plenty of different troop types to not get stale. I love playing cavalry orcs

^I think undead (or nature, though they don't have models atm so...) with their prevalence of shambling (can't double move on their own) units and dark surge (magic that moves your own units around if they're shambling) provide a different playstyle to a lot of lists.

Ogres have a lot of big dudes (they have a variety of goblins too if you still want *some* runty things) so they're kind of different.

Having never actually played Kings of War (yet owning a fair amount of models), I was not aware Ogres and Goblins can run together. Good news for me.

I could probably slap an army together right quick in that case. I'm sure my brother's got enough undead in various states of shambling he can drag to the field.

Does Mantic have any sort of movement trays? Seems like something we'd need if units fight in blocks.

I just buy Renedra ones. They're pretty cheap (and yes, it's a wonder Mantic don't sell those on their website!)

I've Warbases.co.uk before. Can recommend them.

I second Warbases.co.uk as suggested by .Mikes., they are just what you need for KOW.

I agree with Daedleh on game size too. But remember if coming over from WFB your army will tend to be larger (under KOW rules 1.0 as it stands) as units are cheaper in points cost and there is less access to big gribblies and expensive characters.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Any suggestions for a pair of armies that are a fun match-up on the table? Maybe some interesting, but contrasting playstyles?

fwiw, I just picked up the KoW Two-Player Battle Set on Amazon. 95+ mini's for $57 from UK-based Buy4Less. Arrived without any problems, much earlier than the one-month delivery estimate. No tracking. Orcs vs. Undead, plus 32-page rules. Assembly and painting required. Some unboxing and reviews available on the 'net. Enjoy!

http://www.amazon.com/Kings-Of-War-Player-Battle/dp/B008OJAOSM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1415146415&sr=8-1&keywords=kings+of+war+two+player+set

 Azazelx wrote:
Split the monies? I suppose they could simply sell WLG's models on their website as a retailer - in the same way that they sell AoW models (or used to, I haven't checked for awhile). There are a fair few people out there who use KoW as a historical ruleset - with a few fan lists floating around. I haven't done so myself, but if they were going to partner with/sell WLG (or Perry) stuff, they could "officialise" those rules as well.

Really though - models are where the money is in this game, so they'd probably much rather you bought an Undead or Basilean army instead...

Yeah. Expect a year or more. Multiple waves of Pledge Managers. All the usual trappings. That's why I'll happily just get my rulebook and maybe see if a mate of mine wants to jump on for a rulebook and some (existing/wave 1) models as well, if they offer them at a good enough price

There are discussions ongoing with several companies for producing an "official" Kingdoms of Men model range using another companies sprues. Nothing set in stone yet, but there might be something in the KS armies.

The rulebook will be with you sooner than you think. Certainly any events in the second half of the year will use 2nd edition. I don't think that Mantic can get the plastics, let alone rest of the models, done in that timescale so I'm pretty certain it'll be multiple waves.

 Daedleh wrote:
There are discussions ongoing with several companies for producing an "official" Kingdoms of Men model range using another companies sprues. Nothing set in stone yet, but there might be something in the KS armies.

I am a little ignorrant on this issue but what is the difference betwwen Basilea and Kingdoms of men army?

 corgan wrote:

 Daedleh wrote:
There are discussions ongoing with several companies for producing an "official" Kingdoms of Men model range using another companies sprues. Nothing set in stone yet, but there might be something in the KS armies.

I am a little ignorrant on this issue but what is the difference betwwen Basilea and Kingdoms of men army?

Basilea is the left over of an old empire in Mantica. Aesthetically it takes cues from various Mediterranean and south eastern european medieval and older cultures, and thematiclly it's very religious based, with paladins, warrior nuns and elohi, which are basically angels with fiery swords (and awesome models).

Kindgoms of Men is basically anything else anybody wants. The units are varied and open to interpretation on how they look, so you make a medieval norman or a Byzantine or an Anglo Saxon army with the same list using minis from any range.

 corgan wrote:

 Daedleh wrote:
There are discussions ongoing with several companies for producing an "official" Kingdoms of Men model range using another companies sprues. Nothing set in stone yet, but there might be something in the KS armies.

I am a little ignorrant on this issue but what is the difference betwwen Basilea and Kingdoms of men army?

Basilea is essentially a romanticised + Fantasy elements version of the Byzantine Empire.

The Kingdoms of Men army is designed as a catch-all list to allow people who really want to use humans to be able to create an army from the substantial range of suppliers of human models already on the market. Fluff-wise it represents generic fiefdoms not aligned with any given political player, though IIRC the fluff implies many of them have some weak ties to Basilea through shared political ancestry (because the history of Basilea takes many elements from the decline of Rome).

I would have put it like

old Mantica human empire = Roman Empire
Basilea = Byzantine Empire, ie surviving Eastern half of the old Roman empire
Kindoms of Men = All the other western Roman successors like the Goths, Vandals, Lombards, Franks, Angles, Saxons, etc

They share a common ancestry, but where Basilea has gone super religious and reliving former glories, the kingdoms of men have moved onward and outward, changing with the times and getting maybe a little barbarian, at least compared to what came before.

Thanks for the response all the info guys

So, tomorrow. Really excited to see what they've come up with.

Apparently these are production models. If Mantic can get board game plastic to this level, do we even need anything else?

Passing on the Kickstarter, I don't like the look of the stubby-legged demons. If anything good comes of this, I'll pick it up from Miniature Market for lower than Kickstarter prices after the fact.

 agnosto wrote:
Passing on the Kickstarter, I don't like the look of the stubby-legged demons. If anything good comes of this, I'll pick it up from Miniature Market for lower than Kickstarter prices after the fact.

You're passing on a second edition rulebook for one game because you don't like the concept sketch for a miniature for a different game?

^While possible in some cases, I dunno if I'd expect to find *everything* for such a price. Battlezones still cost a little there than they did during the campaign, but not by a large amount. Waiting to see is still an entirely valid option. Of course then less goodies get funded, but that's just how it is.

Convict team looks pretty solid.

Well hardplastic should stay around obviously for poseable kits with options/extras for one thing. Talking about their BGplastic vs restic though... May be a sound argument. I think there are some dynamic deadzone poses that would have been a little harder to pull off in their boardgame material, but it seems like this new stuff is coming along very well.

Is that Grogan in the back some kind of new sculpt, a guard maybe? I don't recall having seen it before.

@Lordblackfang I think those Molochs are probably the KoW moloch sculpts, they existed before DS was announced, so they're probably the sculpt we'll see for molochs in KoW2.0

The armored Grogan is a Keeper. You can tell by the Dreadball Glove. He looks MASSIVELY better than the regular one...