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 Alex C wrote:
The armored Grogan is a Keeper. You can tell by the Dreadball Glove. He looks MASSIVELY better than the regular one...

The Deadzone ones would look that good too if they had nothing to do all day but sit in a cell and do weights in the yard

 Thraxas Of Turai wrote:
I second Warbases.co.uk as suggested by .Mikes., they are just what you need for KOW.

I agree with Daedleh on game size too. But remember if coming over from WFB your army will tend to be larger (under KOW rules 1.0 as it stands) as units are cheaper in points cost and there is less access to big gribblies and expensive characters.

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I know this isn't a news/rumor type of sub-conversation but it is relevant and helpful for fence-sitters and the uninitiated.

So, we've never played Warhammer Fantasy. In fact the only mass-battles "move whole giant blocks of forces" game we even remotely played has been a little game called Arcane Legions. We've always been 40k/Warmahordes players primarily, and have played smaller scale games, but not "bigger". I always wanted to try Warhammer Fantasy as so many of the models look amazing, but pretty decisively people say KoW is just the better playing game period.

Plus, I have mountains of "credit" with Mantic considered the couple games i've worked on now. :-p So "essentially free" makes it an easier impulse buy.

So I see on their site they full retail 2000pt armies for about $200usd, I bet during the KS I really will be able to scrape together 2, 1500-2000pt armies for $300.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Apparently these are production models. If Mantic can get board game plastic to this level, do we even need anything else?

The board game plastic is twice as expensive, and means that you can't clean, convert and assemble your miniatures yourself. I'd much rather have twice as many miniatures on sprues than half as many possibly torn off, possibly without mould lines removed, and possibly misglued.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
Passing on the Kickstarter, I don't like the look of the stubby-legged demons. If anything good comes of this, I'll pick it up from Miniature Market for lower than Kickstarter prices after the fact.

You're passing on a second edition rulebook for one game because you don't like the concept sketch for a miniature for a different game?

Haa ha haaa ha ha

I don't mind the stubby legged demon that much, and the concept art is nice enough. I'll wait for high quality close ups as always before deciding on Mantic models. I don't think they'll tempt me with their figures, but I never know.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
Passing on the Kickstarter, I don't like the look of the stubby-legged demons. If anything good comes of this, I'll pick it up from Miniature Market for lower than Kickstarter prices after the fact.

You're passing on a second edition rulebook for one game because you don't like the concept sketch for a miniature for a different game?

The assumption here, based upon information available, is that the concepts and produced minis presented so far will be incorporated into th KoW Kickstarter since it's the same faction (Abyssals). Why would they create Abyssals for the board game and then make some entirely different models for the wargame? I'm not saying that it isn't possible but it just seems too much like duplication of effort and since the two games share a common background and "fluff" it would be confusing to potential consumers.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Zond wrote:
I don't mind the stubby legged demon that much, and the concept art is nice enough. I'll wait for high quality close ups as always before deciding on Mantic models. I don't think they'll tempt me with their figures, but I never know.

Which is kind of my point as well. Mantic generally doesn't show such close-ups during the KS or before shipping so I'll wait until production. Saving a bit of money now isn't as attractive as dumping my unwanted minis on Judgedoug later (though I'm sure he would appreciate it).

I got confused, thought yesterday was Friday, and stayed up late to join the Kickstarter.... and now I'm really tired.

 agnosto wrote:

The assumption here, based upon information available, is that the concepts and produced minis presented so far will be incorporated into th KoW Kickstarter since it's the same faction (Abyssals). Why would they create Abyssals for the board game and then make some entirely different models for the wargame? I'm not saying that it isn't possible but it just seems too much like duplication of effort and since the two games share a common background and "fluff" it would be confusing to potential consumers.

Counterpoint, the Deadzone/Warpath Brokkrs and Dreadball Xtreme Brokkrs are different sculpts, albeit same aesthetic.

 NTRabbit wrote:

 agnosto wrote:

The assumption here, based upon information available, is that the concepts and produced minis presented so far will be incorporated into th KoW Kickstarter since it's the same faction (Abyssals). Why would they create Abyssals for the board game and then make some entirely different models for the wargame? I'm not saying that it isn't possible but it just seems too much like duplication of effort and since the two games share a common background and "fluff" it would be confusing to potential consumers.

Counterpoint, the Deadzone/Warpath Brokkrs and Dreadball Xtreme Brokkrs are different sculpts, albeit same aesthetic.

Good point, one that I wasn't aware of. Here's hoping they realize that stumpy leg devils don't impart a sense of horror that would be expected from the denizens of the nether reaches...

I'll be in the KS for the rules.

I severely dislike stumpy legs aesthetic, so I specifically will avoid getting anything with stumpy legs (or lightly armored female infantry, I hate that gakky fantasy trope)

 judgedoug wrote:
I'll be in the KS for the rules.

I severely dislike stumpy legs aesthetic, so I specifically will avoid getting anything with stumpy legs (or lightly armored female infantry, I hate that gakky fantasy trope)

Not a female dwarf berserker fan then, eh?

 agnosto wrote:


Which is kind of my point as well. Mantic generally doesn't show such close-ups during the KS or before shipping so I'll wait until production. Saving a bit of money now isn't as attractive as dumping my unwanted minis on Judgedoug later (though I'm sure he would appreciate it).

He certainly would - but you won't!

He doesn't pay well.

At all!

 judgedoug wrote:
I'll be in the KS for the rules.

Me too. I need a ruleset for the pile of WHFB plastic I've accumulated over the years, especially as our kids are getting old enough to express interest in the hobby. I still don't know what to do with all the 40K/SciFi stuff though. Hate the thought of selling it but hate the fact that none of it gets utilized.

I thought this was only going to be for the book... I guess I'll be buying a Abyssal Army then

 RobertsMinis wrote:
I thought this was only going to be for the book... I guess I'll be buying a Abyssal Army then

You know what Mantic's like, there will be half a dozen new factions by the end.

#ronnieneedsanewrollsroyce

Prestor Jon wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
I'll be in the KS for the rules.

Me too. I need a ruleset for the pile of WHFB plastic I've accumulated over the years, especially as our kids are getting old enough to express interest in the hobby. I still don't know what to do with all the 40K/SciFi stuff though. Hate the thought of selling it but hate the fact that none of it gets utilized.

That's exactly the reason I got into KoW KS 1 back in mid 2012. And I've been playing it non-stop for over two years.
I gave Warpath a try for some 40k models, and it was also pretty fun. (Not as good as Kings of War is)

Stupid question for fans/players...

Does it at all feel weird that (as is my understanding) you never remove models from units as damage/wounds are suffered?

Watching friends play KoW Version 1, it was always the only pet-peeve I had that just seemed so strange... The 40k guy in me likes removing dead bodies from attacks... its a silly thing, but it feels like something is "happening" when going through that motion.

I'm in for the set of 2 books at least. Convinced one of my friends who plays Warhammer Fantasy to give Kings Of War a try.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Stupid question for fans/players...

Does it at all feel weird that (as is my understanding) you never remove models from units as damage/wounds are suffered?

Watching friends play KoW Version 1, it was always the only pet-peeve I had that just seemed so strange... The 40k guy in me likes removing dead bodies from attacks... its a silly thing, but it feels like something is "happening" when going through that motion.

For fantasy it's okayish. IRL there were usually not that many casualties until one side broke and ran and was cut down.

In Warpath it's completely ridiculous.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Stupid question for fans/players...

Does it at all feel weird that (as is my understanding) you never remove models from units as damage/wounds are suffered?

Nope. I thought it would but it never did. And when you're playing with movement trays it looks easthetically better on the board when you don't have big black sqaures on the boards where bodels used to be.

I watched a WHFB batrep this week and it actually struck me as odd that all the models were being taken off.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Stupid question for fans/players...

Does it at all feel weird that (as is my understanding) you never remove models from units as damage/wounds are suffered?

Watching friends play KoW Version 1, it was always the only pet-peeve I had that just seemed so strange... The 40k guy in me likes removing dead bodies from attacks... its a silly thing, but it feels like something is "happening" when going through that motion.

Being a WHFB player (and some Warhammer Ancients) from 1994-2010, it did feel weird at first... but element basing is really where it's at. Army list creation is done in literally 1/10th of the time. Same with army setup, especially if your units are based that way.
Now I cannot stand individual model removal for mass battles games. I play Warlord Historicals (HC,P&S,BP), Ga Pa (WSS), Kings of War... they're all element based, and it is so, so much easier. And much quicker. For the love of god, so much quicker. My 2000 point games of Kings of War - which have as many models as a 3000-4000 point Warhammer game, are done in 2 hours.

I mean, we're already abstracting the game anyway (you know Warhammer is written as a 20:1 scale, so a regiment of 20 models is supposed to "represent" 400 models)

40k is a skirmish game, models are 1:1 scale, so individual casualty removal makes sense.


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 lord_blackfang wrote:
In Warpath it's completely ridiculous.

Warpath (currently) has individual casualty removal.

Also, I'm personally not much of a fan of casualties in modern/sci-fi games. There's very few KIA in modern combat, it's about suppressing the enemy into losing the will to fight. I prefer systems where casualties are A Big Deal and suppression/pinning/outmaneuvering actually takes enemies out of action.

 NTRabbit wrote:

Counterpoint, the Deadzone/Warpath Brokkrs and Dreadball Xtreme Brokkrs are different sculpts, albeit same aesthetic.

I'd certainly fething hope that the space football player models have different sculpts to the space skirmish shooting game models. I mean, really.

It's much more likely that the KoW models will have a lot more in common with the DKH ones. They could be the exact same sculpts, or simply based on the same art. Just how much they have in common remains to be seen.

They're not reusing the existing Undead for it, right?

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Stupid question for fans/players...
Does it at all feel weird that (as is my understanding) you never remove models from units as damage/wounds are suffered?
Watching friends play KoW Version 1, it was always the only pet-peeve I had that just seemed so strange... The 40k guy in me likes removing dead bodies from attacks... its a silly thing, but it feels like something is "happening" when going through that motion.

It actually doesn't to me. It might have taken a game or so to get used to it, but it just plays so much faster. I still prefer the concept of removing models for skirmish games (regardless of fantasy/sci-fi or historical) but for big-block-of--unit fighting like this it works well. The strangest part for me is the lack of leaders/champions in units. Not superheroes, but it can be nice to have a little bump. Some of the magical items can add a bit of flavour though and cover this ground.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
They're not reusing the existing Undead for it, right?

No, but the Abyssals are all "new" models while the DKH undead are new replacement sculpts to the 4+-year-old models. So it's a moot point. I actually wouldn't be surprised to see the new DKH undead officially repurposed into KoW units - especially since there are no current Mantic Skeleton archers, for example.

I tend to think magical items wrecked warhammer as some items were carried by anything that could, they ceased to be special or have much meaning story wise.

Anyhow I'll be interested to see what incentive is offered to start an army with this is KS.

I'm having a derp moment and can't find where the Rulebook pledge price was stated. I know it had the hardback and mini rulebook in the pledge, but how much was it again?

I really dislike the abyssal aesthetics so sadly won't be getting them (still want my lovecratian demon army). Rules all the way for me!

 Alex C wrote:
I'm having a derp moment and can't find where the Rulebook pledge price was stated. I know it had the hardback and mini rulebook in the pledge, but how much was it again?

$50 for 2 Rulebooks

$100 for 1 Rulebook and an Army

 adamsouza wrote:


$50 for 2 Rulebooks

Where was this mentioned? FWIR Ronnie said $50 for one in the announcement video fdrom last week, or did I hear wrong?

 adamsouza wrote:

 Alex C wrote:
I'm having a derp moment and can't find where the Rulebook pledge price was stated. I know it had the hardback and mini rulebook in the pledge, but how much was it again?

$50 for 2 Rulebooks

$100 for 1 Rulebook and an Army

Cheers