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 Daedleh wrote:
Or they can just run around your troll with the 2 pivots? A troll isn't wide enough to stop a charge to the Morax and you don't have to charge the nearest target. If you want to screen your morax then use an ax or sniff troop which are wide enough to protect it.

Not if there's not enough room to maneouver? I play using terrain and more than the aforementioned two units. I can see your described situation occurring if my opponent had one unit and I had the troll and Morax and we were playing on an open field, sure.

No way! Using terrain and multiple units!

I still don't see anything that a single troll does that a troop of trolls, sniffs or axes wouldn't.

 Daedleh wrote:
Or they can just run around your troll with the 2 pivots? A troll isn't wide enough to stop a charge to the Morax and you don't have to charge the nearest target. If you want to screen your morax then use an ax or sniff troop which are wide enough to protect it.

Your edit added more, so more reply:

I do use sniffs, but deploy them 12 inches in to distribute shooting and then CS damage amongst as many enemy units as I can to push the ever important bull curve Nerve check in my favor. Then I also deploy my main lines two or three units deep, staggered.

The main, huge benefit for a troll screen is that you distribute your screen's width so that no enemy unit can fit between the trolls / intervening terrain, so they will have to charge or be charged by the trolls. The most wonderful part is that if the troll survives, the follow on unit they were screening can also fit into melee against the target unit.



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 Daedleh wrote:
No way! Using terrain and multiple units!

I still don't see anything that a single troll does that a troop of trolls, sniffs or axes wouldn't.

They are onyl 40mm wide and cost much less?

 carlos13th wrote:

 JoshInJapan wrote:

 The Dwarf Wolf wrote:
The "basileans" can easily be used as an oriental faction. Treat regular troopers as Ashigaru, use samurais for knights, and theme the elohi as kamis instead of angels...

Kingdoms of Men makes a more historically accurate Samurai army.

It's what I am using. Even if you want to throw in a bit of fantasy the ogre option in kom allows you to field oni or another mystical creature.

It would be kind of out there, but if you can find a Kitsune model or so, you can have that as your healer or caster. I know the people who make Bushido has a model or so.

I give up. You are obviously playing a very different game to me, and you're obviously right - the sky is falling down because you can't take a single troll (which would go up to at least 60-70 points in the new edition if it were in).

I'm really surprised this one isn't sky-rocketing in backers. It's like $1 per model and they look pretty darn nice. Am I missing something?

That most of it is still in restic?

Hard Plastic and this one takes off!

Lots of restic will limit this one to the 'core groups' and probably keep it in that $400K to $500K range.

Still very successful though!

 Daedleh wrote:
I give up. You are obviously playing a very different game to me, and you're obviously right - the sky is falling down because you can't take a single troll (which would go up to at least 60-70 points in the new edition if it were in).

If you say so. I can't find anywhere where a player can slide a 100mm wide unit sideways to bypass a troll screen that is set 90mm apart to complete a charge. That whole charging requirement of "there is enough space for your unit to physically move into contact with the target" I think would make that impossible.

I appreciate what you guys are doing and some of the the changes sound great (charging cavalry, auto-spin after flank/rear), and I'm fine with the removal of command options, but don't make changes for the sake of making changes and wind up producing Warhammer 8th.

 Alpharius wrote:
That most of it is still in restic?

Hard Plastic and this one takes off!

Lots of restic will limit this one to the 'core groups' and probably keep it in that $400K to $500K range.

Still very successful though!

And there's very little new for people who backed the previous KoW KS on the whole. Most of the existing units can likely be had for fairly reasonable costs if you poke around a bit, which does take some of the shine off the offering.

With respect, judgedoug, the spamming of single models is an accepted issue with the current rules, and this is one of the proposed (and also supported) solutions to it. It's not change for the sake of change, but rather trying to find the simplest solution to a problem.

 Krinsath wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
That most of it is still in restic?

Hard Plastic and this one takes off!

Lots of restic will limit this one to the 'core groups' and probably keep it in that $400K to $500K range.

Still very successful though!

And there's very little new for people who backed the previous KoW KS on the whole. Most of the existing units can likely be had for fairly reasonable costs if you poke around a bit, which does take some of the shine off the offering.

This. I'm at $50 because I already own:

Dwarf Army (painted) - Mantic and Avatars of War
Orc Army (painted) - Mantic, Mierce, and a bit of Gamezone
Goblin Army (painted) - Mantic, Red Box Games, Mierce, Chronopia, and some GW
Basilean Army (painted) - Mantic, Confrontation, CMON
KoM Army (painted) - Vendel/SMM Greeks, Reaper, Mierce
KoM Army (painted) - Warlord Pike & Shotte
Elf Army (unpainted) - Mantic, Ultraforge, Architects of War, Avatars of War
"Orc"/Chaos Army (unpainted) - Red Box Games Helsvakt, Mierce
"Dark Elf"/Cult of Set (unpainted) - Gamezone and Mierce

The only thing that really interests me are the abyssals and I'd like to see more concepts (which hopefully aren't the god-awful stumpy leg Molochs)

Note that I spent over 500 bucks on KoW KS1.


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 sukura636 wrote:
With respect, judgedoug, the spamming of single models is an accepted issue with the current rules, and this is one of the proposed (and also supported) solutions to it. It's not change for the sake of change, but rather trying to find the simplest solution to a problem.

Again, I've already recognized that. My plea is that rules that need to be fixed are fixed (in this respect, spamming Drakons and Werewolves). Invalidating players' painted and based armies for the hell of it (my three-troll screens, Azazelx's two Ogre fillers, etc, countless other armies) reminds me suspiciously like another company. With that being said, and as I have already stated, making individual monsters part of the Heroes/Monsters selection is probably fine (or hell even the Warmachine selection for poor Orcs who have none).

As I understand it, it's that new heroes (like WFB 'hero' level) will be taking their place. So, like Werewolf Alpha, or something. More attacks, but more limited as to how many you can take.

 lucasbuffalo wrote:
I'm really surprised this one isn't sky-rocketing in backers. It's like $1 per model and they look pretty darn nice. Am I missing something?

Has absolutely nothing to do with restic being the material, and everything to do with people having an army already so only needing a book - the average pledge tells that story plain enough - and it being very close to Xmas. That Mantic only gave 1 weeks notice instead of a big lead up campaign for a month is probably contributing as well.

That said, we got the main thing - the book (yay!) funded.

And the start of a new army, too Not bad for a mini-kick.

 NTRabbit wrote:

 lucasbuffalo wrote:
I'm really surprised this one isn't sky-rocketing in backers. It's like $1 per model and they look pretty darn nice. Am I missing something?

Has absolutely nothing to do with restic being the material, and everything to do with people having an army already so only needing a book - the average pledge tells that story plain enough - and it being very close to Xmas. That Mantic only gave 1 weeks notice instead of a big lead up campaign for a month is probably contributing as well.

Yeah,
I'm sad I missed the first time around. Glad to be on this train

I'm waiting until after the new year but I'm thinking Abyss will be the way to go for moi.

 Daedleh wrote:
Ronnie meant to say that the option will be removed for most units (some units like chariots may retain the single model option).

This is because of the ability to spam single models. We either put the points up to stop the spam lists, which unfortunately makes them unattractive as single options, or remove them. We've chosen to remove them, however we're making sure that there's an equivalent Hero option for each of them. If you want to take a single model, like a drakon or werewolf then you can take the hero option instead.

Not a fan of this. Single figure units are a great way to make up extra points and it can be a nice way to paint an interesting model and put it in your army without commiting to an entire unit. Rather than getting rid of them, why not just limit each player to taking no more than one of each available type of single-model infantry.

 NTRabbit wrote:

 lucasbuffalo wrote:
I'm really surprised this one isn't sky-rocketing in backers. It's like $1 per model and they look pretty darn nice. Am I missing something?

Has absolutely nothing to do with restic being the material, and everything to do with people having an army already so only needing a book - the average pledge tells that story plain enough - and it being very close to Xmas. That Mantic only gave 1 weeks notice instead of a big lead up campaign for a month is probably contributing as well.

Sorry, but you're wrong. For me, it has everything to do with the materiel.
If It was all hard plastic, I'd be in for at least an Abbysal Dwarf Starter army now. A pledge with alot of Restic in it drops to the bottom of my interest list. Many members of my club feel the same way about Restic and similar spin-cast products. It's a pain in the but to work with, products using it don't have the options of plastic kits and yet it usually costs more than Plastic or PVC. Even Finecast and Bones are easier to work with than spincast plastic.

Though I like many of the sculpts, Deadzone (and some WM Warjacks) killed my interest in this material. Mantic will see alot less of my $ as long as Restic rules the roost.

I think restic is on the way out, but Mantic will round out the holes in the model range before they start converting existing stuff into better materials.

Kinda like GW isn't making any new Finecast releases, but still sells the existing stuff, because, well, it's better than not having a model at all.

Do we know what armies are primarily restic? I am in for 2 armies one being abyssal (we know they are hard plastic). I am not set on a second one yet.

 primalexile wrote:
Do we know what armies are primarily restic? I am in for 2 armies one being abyssal (we know they are hard plastic). I am not set on a second one yet.

Army materials are in the spoiler at the bottom of the OP

 primalexile wrote:
Do we know what armies are primarily restic? I am in for 2 armies one being abyssal (we know they are hard plastic). I am not set on a second one yet.

 Thraxas Of Turai wrote:
For those of you new to KOW/ Mantics Fantasy Line here is a list of what materials the units in the mega armies (and thus the starter armies, which have the same units) are made from.

Key:
HIPS =Hard Impact Plastic Sprues
RP =Resin Plastic (sometimes referred to as restic)
HYB =Hybrid metal and HIPS (resin plastic and metal also occur but not in any of the army deal units so far).
M =Metal.

Undead Mega Starter Army:

40 Skeletons =HIPS
20 Ghouls =HIPS
40 Zombies = HIPS
10 Wraiths =RP
3 Werewolves =RP
20 Revenants =HIPS

Dwarf Mega Starter Army

40 Ironclad =HIPS
40Ironclad =HIPS
20 Shieldbreakers =HIPS
10 Brock Riders =RP
2 Ironbelchers =HIPS
1 Bombard =HYB

Elf Mega Starter Army
10 Stormwind Cavalry =RP
40 Archers =HIPS
40 Spearmen =HIPS
2 Bolt Throwers =HIPS
20 SCouts =HIPS
20 Palace Guard =RP

Orc Mega Starter Army
40 Orc Ax =HIPS
20 Greatax =HIPS
3 ORC Chariots =RP (HIPS Crew)
1 Fight Wagon =RP (HIPS Crew)
3 Trolls =RP
10 Goreriders =RP


Abyssal Dwarf Mega Starter Army
40 Immortal Guard =RP
10 Gargoyles =RP
10 Halfbreeds =RP
2 Angkor Mortars =HYB
3 Lesser Golems =RP
10 Slave Orcs =HIPS (slaver and beasty are HYB).

Goblin Mega Starter Army
20 Spitters = HIPS
20 Rabble = HYB
20 Sharpsticks =HYB
10 Fleabags =RP
6 Trolls =RP
2 Mincers =RP
2 War Trombones =M

Basilean Mega Army
40 Men at Arms (Droopy HIPS)
20 Paladins =RP
10 Knights =RP
20 Panther Lancers =RP
10 Sisters =RP
6 Elohi =RP

Ogre Mega Starter Army:
6 Ogre Shooters =RP
12 Ogre Warriors =RP
3 Ogre Chariots = HYB
40 Red Goblins =HIPS
1 Ogre Hero =RP

Thanks guys.

Looks like I am going only for Abyssal and Nature (assuming they get made).

So add-on wednesday is here. Nothing exiting, some dice and MDF movement trays from warbases. I really dont like these mdf movement trays, the edges are just way to thick. I had hoped that plastic movement trays would be a stretch goal. And it seems to me that if you are a die hard KOW player you would just multibase on scenic bases and not use movement trays at all.


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Oh and there is a paint set with TAP warpaints, which even if the colours are basic seem to be a pretty good deal.

 Eilif wrote:


Not a fan of this. Single figure units are a great way to make up extra points and it can be a nice way to paint an interesting model and put it in your army without commiting to an entire unit. Rather than getting rid of them, why not just limit each player to taking no more than one of each available type of single-model infantry.

Well, from what's being said your interesting model will now become a minor hero instead, so is still very much usable.

I'm a huge fan of warbases so I'm glad to see them getting a bit of exposure here, though I wouldn't personally use movement trays (die hard multibaser here). The edges look a bit think, but those won't be the final design so with enough noise being thrown their way they might make something a little slimmer.

Anyone else had experience with those movement trays? They seem like a great deal, but sometimes if its too good to be true...

I want to pick a few up, just want to know a little about them before I go throwing my money in.

This worldwide campaign stretch goal seems like a joke...

Warbases do have very good quality stuff. A lot of Mantic fans swear by them.

Warbases do some excellent multi bases with slots for the mantic base tabs to fit into, I've got a fair few for my undead and they work really well. Bit odd they've gone with the tray option instead for the add ons.

The campaign whilst interesting is a bit of a momentum killer imho. Plus the characters are exactly the same as the ds ones ( confirmed in the comments) I'd hoped for some resin figures not bg plastic.

This worldwide campaign stretch goal seems like a joke...

Why?

Is it just me, or do those mdf movement trays seem pricey to buy in the volume needed for 2000pt armies?

It occurs to me that it would end up being $20-30 worth of them for each mega-army bundle as they currently stand, and with those being half the size or a "full" game at the tournament level, it really adds up.

Meanwhile, i'd love to buy enough to swap in and out for the wife and I, but with troops being split between 20 AND 25mm bases, that means a lot more movement trays depending on the factions involved.

So, as a general rule, Undead/Human/Goblin-esque models are on 20mm bases for mass infantry, and Orcs go on 25mm?

Which of these precisely are the cavalry trays, in that case?