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The *exclusive* part is that they're in resin. I think there's a good chance the board game plastic minis will see a retail release separate from the main box, especially if we nag them enough

I don't have any issue with using board game plastic minis if they provide more variety to available forces.

Oh me either, I'm planning to make some trays to mount the stuff from DS, and probably Bones 2 as well. All of those models are in the boxed game for sure, the specific thing you linked was the collectors edition resin add-on which itself was exclusive to backers.

Hardly apathy. Just watching with interest, even if nothing immediately appeals to me.

^That's why they invented the 48 hour warning system, and why clicking that button is dangerous Hmm seems like an OK deal, remind me! Come back in a few weeks, holy crap, I WANT ALL THE THINGS.

 Eilif wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 dragqueeninspace wrote:

Why would they become the standard over the men at arms kit which is 33% better with twice the options? Yes they would be fantasy but they would be just as likely to not fit into the aesthetic of a random army as the historics.

Because Perry minis are not fantasy minis. They don't look like fantasy minis for a variety of reasons. They look dinky next to almost any plastic fantasy miniature. Their weapons lack that je ne sais quoi that makes fantasy weapons exciting; plus they are dinky. Their poses are boring; fantasy miniatures should ideally look ready to fight mythical beasts, but Perry minis are better posed for their more historically-accurate battle with dysentery.

Now, I haven't bought any of their most recent kits since the WOTR infantry let me down hard, so it's possible this new kit fixes all of those issues. If so, please let me know.

I agree that they would become the standard non-GW option based on being fantasy and radically more affordable than GW, and they were scaled to Mantic rather than perry, they would fit in better with a wider variety of fantasy minis.

That said, I disagree about the necessity of dramatic poses for rank-and-file fantasy minis. For heroes, I like something flamboyant, but for rank and file I actually prefer more subdued poses for both the look and the ease of ranking.

Asside from pose and size, I'd be curious what you didn't like about the WorR infantry. I don't own them, but they seem nice in all the reviews I've seen.

Aside from pose and size, I don't dislike too much. But that seems a bit like a car salesman asking "aside from the design and the seating capacity, what don't you like about this car?" I like the Perry proportions, but they are too short to use with most of my figures. Their weapons also break easily (see the bent halberd on the sprue shot you posted), and they are much harder to paint to a high standard than larger figures. Based on what actually shows up painted on the internet, I would wager that a large portion of Perry sales of their WOTR stuff go to people intending to use them for fantasy stuff. Just look at the number of Game of Thrones logs over on lead adventure for example.

Edit: Sorry I took this off topic. I'm in for a dollar in full apathy mode. I even regret the dollar.

 Eilif wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

 Eilif wrote:

The positive side of this is that WHFB factions have a flavor and uniqueness that plays out in the game more than KoW. However, I'll take streamlined tactical gameplay over game-slowing faction-specific detail any day. IMHO, the specificity of WHFB is the kind of thing that belongs in Warband skirmishes and RPG's, not company-level battle games.

I dunno, several of the KoW army wide special rules add in a huge amount of flavor - all Undead being Shambling (and the Evil Dead magic), all Dwarves being headstrong, all Orcs having Crushing Strength, Men having Very Inspiring - that makes them play quite differently than other armies with literally no extra fiddly time added.

KoW armies definitely have some flavor in the form of a general rule or two to give an army a bit of a twist. Enough to differentiate an army, but KoW still has many instances where two races will have units that are near-identical. This really doesn't bother me. I have no problem with an elf on a horse and a human on a horse having relative parity, but some folks cant' stand it.

WHFB writers appeal to this kind of person and seem so obsessed flavor and differentiation that they create near-RPG levels of differentiation between units and then numerous special rules on top of that.

I didn't mean to dig on KoW, I just wanted to be realistic about the contrast in levels of differentiation and "flavor" between the two games. I'd rather have more abstraction and a cleaner playing experience than a crunchy ruleset with too much detail.

Hmm, this makes me less interested in KoW. I'm more interested in fluff and flavor than a super tight ruleset. I'm one of those people who wants each unit to be unique.

Can't have everything I guess..

Army "traits" are something that we're exploring in the rules committee to give every race a bit of unique character, however if they are done then they will be just as simple as the existing traits such as Evil Dead. I do agree that "human with a spear and shield" should be near identical to "other armies human with a spear and shield", but wouldn't mind it if the other army gets +1 nerve from melee attacks as its trait.

From the KS comments just now

@ Rob - there won't be any more hard plastic for the Forces of the Abyss for the time being sorry!

so to me that suggest that the might have a single sprues (probably no more) worth of time at the factory left and they're holding on to it at the moment in case we reach the forces of nature

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
From the KS comments just now

@ Rob - there won't be any more hard plastic for the Forces of the Abyss for the time being sorry!

so to me that suggest that the might have a single sprues (probably no more) worth of time at the factory left and they're holding on to it at the moment in case we reach the forces of nature

They have the DS Abyssal Warrior, Moloch, Effrit, Hellhound, and tortured soul to fall back on to fill the Abyssal ranks.

With 10 Days left they've already hit 7 times their goal to get the books printed, maybe they are trying to keep this KS contained to something they can ship on time.

I'm fine with waiting a little longer to get all the Abyssals (large infantry etc. excluded) in hard plastic.

130 infantry should be enough for a decent army in the mean time and I can always paint up some spare Orcs red to use as Abyssal Warriors.

Would be great to see a Mantic KS that only focuses on a single army, and aims to create 6 hard plastic kits. This one is still a bit scattershot in many ways.

Well I'm in for a £1 for now, too close to Christmas/Black Friday for me to do anything but the basic pledge and later up the pledge manager.

Bump it up a notch Theo then we can get the stretch goals up!

Possible OCD on my part, but it bothers me that all the Mega-Starter Army deals depic the full model count, except the forces of the Abyss, which has a model count of 131 and depicts 11.

 adamsouza wrote:
Possible OCD on my part, but it bothers me that all the Mega-Starter Army deals depic the full model count, except the forces of the Abyss, which has a model count of 131 and depicts 11.

Also the Orc army has lots of Orclings that aren't depicted.

Mymearan wrote:

 Eilif wrote:

KoW armies definitely have some flavor in the form of a general rule or two to give an army a bit of a twist. Enough to differentiate an army, but KoW still has many instances where two races will have units that are near-identical. This really doesn't bother me. I have no problem with an elf on a horse and a human on a horse having relative parity, but some folks cant' stand it.

WHFB writers appeal to this kind of person and seem so obsessed flavor and differentiation that they create near-RPG levels of differentiation between units and then numerous special rules on top of that.

I didn't mean to dig on KoW, I just wanted to be realistic about the contrast in levels of differentiation and "flavor" between the two games. I'd rather have more abstraction and a cleaner playing experience than a crunchy ruleset with too much detail.

Hmm, this makes me less interested in KoW. I'm more interested in fluff and flavor than a super tight ruleset. I'm one of those people who wants each unit to be unique.

It's possible KoW might not be for you.
Mantic has said that there will be alot of new background and fluff in the book, and as said, there are some overarching special rules that give a bit of flavor to each faction, but that's not going to give the kind of detail that WHFB has. When looking for their ideal ruleset, each player has to decide is how much of a faction's fluff must be specifically reflected in the gameplay. You can have RPG-like levels of detail, but it's going to give you a game as rules-heavy and long-playing as WHFB. If you enjoy WHFB, then that's cool, and there's nothing wrong with that.

From my perspective, however, WHFB is an outlier that has made many gamers think that it's normal and ideal for a "Company" level ruleset to have the same amount of detail as a warband skirmish set. Most writers of larger-scope games realize that as the game gets bigger, it naturally should become more abstract in order to facilitate playability. I love having (sometimes writing myself) fluff and background for my minis. That fluff is reflected in the minis, how I paint and convert them, and their backstory. I don't need every nuance of that to be a special rule or additional statistic.

As a semi-relate aside, I wonder if the trend toward less painted minis has -consciously or unconsciously- made folks more reliant on rules to get across the "character" of a unit. When a unit doesn't look the part, do ever-more-detailed rules take on the full burden of representation? We only play with painted minis, so for me and my club the character of the unit is visual as well as rules-based.

 Alex C wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
Possible OCD on my part, but it bothers me that all the Mega-Starter Army deals depic the full model count, except the forces of the Abyss, which has a model count of 131 and depicts 11.

Also the Orc army has lots of Orclings that aren't depicted.

Lots and lots. Like 30 or so.

Adam Souza wrote: Any chance of fat little Orcling sized Forces of The Abyss models on the Lower Abyssals and Succibi Sprues ?
Tiny Devils would be cool

Mantic Games wrote: @ Adam - Yep!

@ Marcin - what would make the range for you? I've got at least three more "things" for the Forces of the Abyss in the plan

This news is full of win

I want imps riding on hellhounds...

I want Hell Hounds Riding Hover Boards!

 adamsouza wrote:

Adam Souza wrote: Any chance of fat little Orcling sized Forces of The Abyss models on the Lower Abyssals and Succibi Sprues ?
Tiny Devils would be cool

Mantic Games wrote: @ Adam - Yep!

@ Marcin - what would make the range for you? I've got at least three more "things" for the Forces of the Abyss in the plan

This news is full of win

Hopefully they will only be on the Lower Abyssal sprues.

New Undead unit, Soul Reaver Cavalry aka Vampire Knights, $200k stretch

Even better, a new Elf King on Dragon which is just a flat out add on as of now, no need to unlock it via stretch

Well there you go. As predicted, Tyrant of Halpi (Big Dragon kit from Dungeon Saga) just got introduced to proper KoW.

That, coupled with entering a phase of stretch-goals that look to be adding genuine value to the mega-armies makes me feel good about where we are going.

Its a bit pie-in-the-sky, but I would love for each mega army bundle to end up with two more units than they started with, for free, and then maybe the single hero model some already have. That would finally put it at objectively "better" a value than any other offer Mantic has for army bundles.

but their succubi aren't naked...why are there no awesome daemonette replacements?
Why hasn't the world given us those?

Ok, the undead army is more intriguing now, metal vampire cavalry sound pretty neat. Also, pretty cool of them to add the elf hero in like that. I guess I won't feel bad about having my Tyrant of Halpi w/o elf king option as for the same price he came with a set of tiles and cards. Not sure I want another large dragon though, looks like a wonderful value for others though

And the stretch for the metal undead is only 10k? Neat.

I am confused why a number of the stretches (Dwarf Warsmith, Necromancer/Soul Reaver Cavalry) are for products that Mantic already have models for. What happened to filling the gaps in the army lists?

I don't know about the Warsmith and the Necromancer, but I believe the Soul Reavers are discountinued.

Zatsuku wrote:
I don't know about the Warsmith and the Necromancer, but I believe the Soul Reavers are discountinued.

They are discontinued. So they are resculpting and retooling and all that stuff. I really wish they would have gone for plastics on the undead calvary. Oh well.

I don't see a Necromancer in the store, but the Warsmith is there.

Put the Ogre Warlock higher up the priority list tbh