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I have been trying to decide whether or not to pick up some of the 40k novels, but would like some of your opinions first.
Who are the best authors? What series would you rate the highest? What stand alone novels would you recommend? Who would you compare some of the authors to?

But mainly, is it worth it? Naturally, I am a fan of "good" authors. Story content can be amazing, but doesn't really do much for me if the actual storytelling isn't just as great. I generally love comic books, but often find myself disappointed by some authors' style, or lack there of.
I am a fan of classic scifi, like Asimov. I love the insanity of Vonnegut and Palahniuk,(neither of those have to do with the genre, but their story telling is amazing.)
Overall, how would you rate the 40k novels, both in content and in storytelling?

Just research the books before you buy them like with any other book. The only times you ever have a problem with the Black Library is when you just randomly pick something up at the library. Like anything by Ben Counter.

I haven't read all that many, but I generally find them more juvenile and gory than the Horus Heresy ones. That's not to say that the HH books are not juvenile and gory...but the element of betrayal in the plot is compelling.

I enjoyed the Blood Angels books by James Swallow, but mainly because I love BA. I think that Dan Abnett is generally regarded as the best 40k novelist (Gaunt's Ghosts rates well), but I like Graham McNeill, Gav Thorpe and Aaron Dembski-Bowden too.

Many of the novels are faction-based (which drew me in) and, as was mentioned before, read the cover before you buy the book.

The story-telling is usually very coherent and gives a lot of good mental imagery. Though, I haven't yet read a novel that covered simultaneously what was going on in the universe in that year, but more specifically stories following a single campaign or a few central battles with some in-between.

They're usually fairly short books and I would recommend a few of them to most including Rebel Winter, Fire Warrior and Fifteen Hours.

You're not going to find any Vonnegut or Palahniuk here. This generation's Hemingway is not scraping away at The Black Library waiting to get his first big novel published.

A lot of simplistic stories. Sometimes colorful but often rife with awkward language, clumsy similies, repetitive sounds, etc. Some writers are better than others, but ultimately nothing you'll read will blow you away. A lot of the novels are heavily derivative (not that that should be a surprise since 40K itself is highly derivative by design). I'm not saying this to be mean. But I'm also a huge Vonnegut and Palahniuk fan, and you won't find anything even close to that level from The Black Library.

This is license fiction being churned out by authors often writing four or more novels a year between the various licenses they write for. And it shows. A lot of the books feel rushed, and the editing is fairly questionable (the most recent one I read had a character lose a hand about two-thirds of the way through, and have two hands again at the end). If you have the eye for it, you'll be able to tell where a lot of the authors wrote the battle scenes first, and then went back and wrote scenes to fill in the gaps (the level of detail and description will suddenly pick up and describe actions a reader would have already needed described if they were unfamiliar with the source material).

Ultimately, these aren't labors of love or art. They're novels churned out for a paycheck. That said, they aren't all awful. But just know that you need to be reading them because the source material interests you or you're looking for hobby inspiration. If not, I'd just steer clear. See if perhaps your local library has one or two in stock.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
You're not going to find any Vonnegut or Palahniuk here. This generation's Hemingway is not scraping away at The Black Library waiting to get his first big novel published.

A lot of simplistic stories. Sometimes colorful but often rife with awkward language, clumsy similies, repetitive sounds, etc. Some writers are better than others, but ultimately nothing you'll read will blow you away. A lot of the novels are heavily derivative (not that that should be a surprise since 40K itself is highly derivative by design). I'm not saying this to be mean. But I'm also a huge Vonnegut and Palahniuk fan, and you won't find anything even close to that level from The Black Library.

This is license fiction being churned out by authors often writing four or more novels a year between the various licenses they write for. And it shows. A lot of the books feel rushed, and the editing is fairly questionable (the most recent one I read had a character lose a hand about two-thirds of the way through, and have two hands again at the end). If you have the eye for it, you'll be able to tell where a lot of the authors wrote the battle scenes first, and then went back and wrote scenes to fill in the gaps (the level of detail and description will suddenly pick up and describe actions a reader would have already needed described if they were unfamiliar with the source material).

Ultimately, these aren't labors of love or art. They're novels churned out for a paycheck. That said, they aren't all awful. But just know that you need to be reading them because the source material interests you or you're looking for hobby inspiration. If not, I'd just steer clear. See if perhaps your local library has one or two in stock.

Actually, I've recently picked up one of the better translations of the Iliad, and it reads quite a bit like some 40k novels. Or rather, some 40k novels read quite a bit like the Iliad.

Heh.

At any rate, there's not a chance I get into a literary debate on Dakka, lol. Especially the classics of Western canon. That way leads to ruin and damnation.

I would suggest books written by Dan Abnett (Eisenhorn, Ravenor, Gaunts Ghosts.)

As well Aaron Dembski Bowden. Talon of Horus is good stuff if you want Chaos

Aaron Dembski-Bowden, Dan Abnett and the Sandy Mitchel are consistently good. Fifteen Hours is one of the best single 40K books I have ever read though in terms of depth, but the characters in the Ravenor series are the most well built and memorable of the lot. I would avoid the Heresy because every novel is forced a certain way, despite the characters. The story was written a long time ago and the series is just fleshing it out more.

I've not read that many BL novels, but top of my recommendadtion list would be the opening trilogy of the Horus Heresy: Horus Rising, False Gods and A Galaxy in Flames. These chart the fall of Horus to Chaos, possibly the most significant event in setting up the 40k universe, and are well written to boot. It plays out almost like a classic tragedy in that, the whole time, you know what is coming, but you're constantly willing it to change as Horus, at first, is actually a genuinely good person. All you can do it watch as the power around him twist his fate, and like any good book, you will find youself emotionally invested in them.

Sandy Mitchell is the only author who has characters I genuinely adore reading about. He's got a skill for crafting them. And I'm not just saying that because Cain is Blackadder-in-space. His writing lacks polish, but that's fine too.

I enjoy a great number of other ones, but it is sometimes a strain to read them. People praise Abnett, but sometimes I feel his stuff is rather scattered and hard to follow. His later stuff is better than his earlier works in that regard.

I can't read anything about Space Marines without being bored by most of the characters, they're just incredibly boring almost to a man. Take away a person's fragility, "after work" motivations and interaction with the rest of society, and you get a boring person, character or not. Attempts to insert fragility, real motivation and interaction have tended to be clumsy or just plain bad.

Stories about the Guard and even the Sisters of Battle are often better by default... Inquisition, it depends on the book and author.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
At any rate, there's not a chance I get into a literary debate on Dakka, lol. Especially the classics of Western canon. That way leads to ruin and damnation.

Says a man who talks about two American authors as a means of comparison for quality of writing...

The anglophone world extends beyond that, mon ami

I personally really like the HH books as far as I've got with them, especially the opening 3. I think they do a really good job of showing how the characters fall to chaos (or resist) and I was always interested in how the HH actually came about. The HH is the pivotal moment in the 40k universe, so its good to read a nice fleshed out account of it with characters you get to know.

 Arth-Rytis wrote:
I have been trying to decide whether or not to pick up some of the 40k novels, but would like some of your opinions first.
Who are the best authors? What series would you rate the highest? What stand alone novels would you recommend? Who would you compare some of the authors to?

But mainly, is it worth it? Naturally, I am a fan of "good" authors. Story content can be amazing, but doesn't really do much for me if the actual storytelling isn't just as great. I generally love comic books, but often find myself disappointed by some authors' style, or lack there of.
I am a fan of classic scifi, like Asimov. I love the insanity of Vonnegut and Palahniuk,(neither of those have to do with the genre, but their story telling is amazing.)
Overall, how would you rate the 40k novels, both in content and in storytelling?

The comic book comparison is quite apt. The best authors at BL are generally held to be Aaron Dembski-Bowden and Dan Abnett, and Abnett is a quite prolific comic book author as well. The writing tends to follow the same formula as comic books, and falls into the same traps: Focus on action, overly dramatic characters (who of course express their emotions through violence), disregarding internal logic for the sake of awesomeness etc. The authors appear to labor under short deadlines, just like comic book authors, and that sometimes shows in terms of plotlines that weren't thought well enough through and mistakes that slipped through editing.
You won't find any Alan Moores, Neil Gaimans or Grant Morrisons at Black Library, but they can still be quite entertaining, if not intellectually stimulating.

 Arth-Rytis wrote:
The authors appear to labor under short deadlines, just like comic book authors, and that sometimes shows in terms of plotlines that weren't thought well enough through and mistakes that slipped through editing.

This is why I go for the HH books, because the plot is already there, it already well thought out and an awesome one at that. All the author has to do is narrate it.

lets see, i have the word bearers omnbibus, iron warriors omnibus, blood gorgons, and the night lords series which were all quite decent..then i bought commisar which stunk of a book tailored towards teenagers.

 pantheralegionnaire wrote:
I haven't read all that many, but I generally find them more juvenile and gory than the Horus Heresy ones. That's not to say that the HH books are not juvenile and gory...but the element of betrayal in the plot is compelling.

I enjoyed the Blood Angels books by James Swallow, but mainly because I love BA. I think that Dan Abnett is generally regarded as the best 40k novelist (Gaunt's Ghosts rates well), but I like Graham McNeill, Gav Thorpe and Aaron Dembski-Bowden too.

Listen to this man, he seems to know whats what.

Stay away from anything by C. S. Goto unless you hate fluff and love transformers and acrobats in terminator armor. Aside from that what ive read is really good, the Salamander trilogy (ended odd though), Blood aAngels Omnibus (1 and 2, both good reads) the Grey Knights Omnibus (a bit odd but i liked it), night lords omnibus (ADB, he is an artist with words), the hammer of the emperor (really good one), Battle of the Fang (only for wolf players, it was good but murdered fluff), and a few others not really worth noting.

I like the books for the small dip into the world of 40k, but I find most of the writers far too impressed with the heroic ideal of Rambo. The Space marine writers specifically seem to make them out to be FAR too powerful in an attempt to 'outdo' the prior author and how great he made his own personally loved chapter.

Most of the gritty feal is in the non-Marine novels, which capture the environment much better

They are mostly pretty bad. Standard pulp sci fi with a similar theme though widely varying in quality.

Read banebladeand skarsnik. That is all I will say.GUY HALEY YAY!

I've found that the first three books were pretty good, and it mostly went downhill from there. Probably because those were sort of experimental books and the author was probably allowed to have a bit more time than in the other books in the HH series. A lot of the books were good, but generally look at the ratings of the books from critics if you're looking for a literary work truly worthy of your time. I found that Fear to Treat was one of the better ones, but that's just my opinion. Generally, just go to a bookstore and open the book up in the middle and read a few pages if you wanna see if you found one of the HH books that were well-written. Fulgrim also seemed like a pretty good one, it really did a great job of foreshadowing Fulgrim and his Legion's fall; though the last hundred pages or so felt a bit rushed. Most of the first ten books that were written were well-done, even though they weren't masterpieces.

I've read several hundred BL novels and whilst they aren't outstanding literature they are generally entertaining reads.

Eye of Terror by Barrington J. Bailey is one of my favourites although it is very much in the vein of Rogue Trader 40K so it can seem strange compared to the modern interpretation of the setting. Still a good sci-fi novel though.

Imperial Glory by Richard Williams was really good I thought, especially his portrayal of the orks.

Redemption Corps by Rob Sanders gets mixed reviews but I was entertained by the book and I would recommend giving it a go.

Titanicus by Dan Abnett is another one of my favourites and the mix of characters meant Abnett crafted a solid story throughout when he can go a bit wobbly at times in his other novels.

Helsreach (by A.D.B.), Legion of the Damned (by Rob Sanders) and Wrath of Iron (by Chris Wraight) from the Space Marine Battles series of novels are all pretty solid and worth a read.

Lastly, Execution Hour by Gordon Rennie is a novel that covers the Imperial Navy and I always thought it a decently crafted B.L. novel although over the years I have seen mixed opinions on it.

I find them, in general, terrible. Not that there aren't some entertaining reads (remember, entertaining doesn't mean good), like the Serpent Beneath, then there's James Swallow's atrocious Fear to Tread.

I read them in general to just keep my reading habits going. You can't always read heavy going literature, so sometimes it's nice to just read some braindead dystopian stuff.

Middling to poor honestly. I found the stories overly simple (grade school stuff basically) and the characters very basic.


To each his/her own though.

They're pulp fiction. They aren't meant or intended to be works of Great Literature.

GreaterGoodIreland wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
At any rate, there's not a chance I get into a literary debate on Dakka, lol. Especially the classics of Western canon. That way leads to ruin and damnation.

Says a man who talks about two American authors as a means of comparison for quality of writing...

The anglophone world extends beyond that, mon ami

If you'd been paying attention, those were the two authors that he used.

Now you can kindly slink off, appropriately abashed.

Nope.

One does wonder how much money the Black Library actually generates though. There's talk about it being a money making exercise plain and simple above, but how much do they actually make?

 GreaterGoodIreland wrote:
Nope.

One does wonder how much money the Black Library actually generates though. There's talk about it being a money making exercise plain and simple above, but how much do they actually make?

Well, the Horus Heresy is a New York Times bestseller series. So probably a lot.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
You're not going to find any Vonnegut or Palahniuk here. This generation's Hemingway is not scraping away at The Black Library waiting to get his first big novel published.

A lot of simplistic stories. Sometimes colorful but often rife with awkward language, clumsy similies, repetitive sounds, etc. Some writers are better than others, but ultimately nothing you'll read will blow you away. A lot of the novels are heavily derivative (not that that should be a surprise since 40K itself is highly derivative by design). I'm not saying this to be mean. But I'm also a huge Vonnegut and Palahniuk fan, and you won't find anything even close to that level from The Black Library.

This is license fiction being churned out by authors often writing four or more novels a year between the various licenses they write for. And it shows. A lot of the books feel rushed, and the editing is fairly questionable (the most recent one I read had a character lose a hand about two-thirds of the way through, and have two hands again at the end). If you have the eye for it, you'll be able to tell where a lot of the authors wrote the battle scenes first, and then went back and wrote scenes to fill in the gaps (the level of detail and description will suddenly pick up and describe actions a reader would have already needed described if they were unfamiliar with the source material).

Ultimately, these aren't labors of love or art. They're novels churned out for a paycheck. That said, they aren't all awful. But just know that you need to be reading them because the source material interests you or you're looking for hobby inspiration. If not, I'd just steer clear. See if perhaps your local library has one or two in stock.

Pawns of Chaos essentially is a a ham-handed Vonnegut plot. Daemon World is also a bit similar to some of those guys' books. I think it's probably more sophisticated, but whatever.

Licensed/franchise fiction is better than even good original fiction. Writing involves a lot of competencies that can be neglected or wasted by an author trying to manage all of them. When the setting and premise of a novel are already supplied, it is easier for an author to concentrate on fewer aspects of writing.

With BL books, you can't expect greatness, a lot of them are decent, but a few of them are AMAZING, and plenty more are crap

example:

Enforcer series (Adeptus Arbites) is.....

meh?

I mean its not bad, but it's not great either.

My opinion? Way too many books.

Though I had a fun time reading a bunch of them. Didn't expect quality writing, and went for stories related to my favorite chapters/regiments etc.