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I can't decide if FNP or the 5++ invulnerable save from ranged is better. What do you think Dakka?

It's tough to say. Both are great tools, but they work best if used together. I'd say that the Painboy will be more globally praised due to the cost difference between himself and the Big Mek and doesn't need to worry as much about his physical placement amongst the mob.

I tend to run both when I run a heavy footslog army, using multi-CADs to pack the HQs in there. A 5+ Invul with a 5+ FNP after to shooting attacks is awesome, as they need to expend S8 to deny just one of the saves. It makes a mob severe pain in the ass to kill. It's costly, but still a crap ton of fun to watch your opponent look super annoyed that they can't kill a mob of 30 as easily as they could last edition. It's great.

TL;DR it's personal preference for the most part. 50 points for FNP that can be used against ranged and CC but doesn't stop ID vs 85 points for 5+ Invul against any shooting attack that can also be conferred to any ally model that it happens to touch and isn't denied by Instant Death and has a tad more versatility.

For hordes FNP is better, since it is far all models in the unit. For smaller and more important ones I prefer the 5++, can save a few models fron ID.
I once ran a unit of Meganobs in a BW+ a Killkannon with Grotsnik and a Megamek with KFF and the Stick. It was a rolling bastion of Destruction. We played 2x2 - Chaos and Orks - Eldar and Raven Guard. Chaos got tabled by turn 3, while the Killawagon and its crew wiped out the Raven Guard by turn 3 and crushed the Eldar Wreithguards and Wreithblades. They also took out the Warlord (a Spiritseer) and one Wave Serpent. And nothing could stop them, the KFF and FNP with the 2+ were just to much for my opponents

If you face lots of S: D, KFF. Otherwise, FNP is almost always better since it works in mellee, on the whole squad, so you don't need to bother with positioning for the painboss and stacks with cover and armor.
KFF could be nice to cover vehicles and big gunz too. But it's not easy to do with a single 6' bauble. Bike is a must in this case.

Painboy all the way! Cheaper and give you both CC an shooting save!

There's just no right or wrong answer here. I can't vote.

It also depends what unit it's going in. They both have their place.

 calarok wrote:
Painboy all the way! Cheaper and give you both CC an shooting save!

Mostly this. If the KFF was a bit stronger than just the 5+ (since it is limited to saves against shooting): so a 4+ Inv and cheaper than the price of the Mega KFF AND actually gave pre-7th ed cover from vechiles, rather than the embarked vechile only.

Unfortunately, for what it is, the KFF doesn't hold up these days. It has a place but only in specific areas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 hordrak wrote:
For hordes FNP is better, since it is far all models in the unit. For smaller and more important ones I prefer the 5++, can save a few models fron ID.
I once ran a unit of Meganobs in a BW+ a Killkannon with Grotsnik and a Megamek with KFF and the Stick. It was a rolling bastion of Destruction. We played 2x2 - Chaos and Orks - Eldar and Raven Guard. Chaos got tabled by turn 3, while the Killawagon and its crew wiped out the Raven Guard by turn 3 and crushed the Eldar Wreithguards and Wreithblades. They also took out the Warlord (a Spiritseer) and one Wave Serpent. And nothing could stop them, the KFF and FNP with the 2+ were just to much for my opponents

This seems fun. Did you have many guns on the Battlewagon? Thinking about things, would this be plausable with a Trukk and the MegaKFF for the 4+ Inv? Or is the Battlewagon better as it shrugs off more attacks naturally?

 grendel083 wrote:
There's just no right or wrong answer here. I can't vote.

It also depends what unit it's going in. They both have their place.

Same here, I cannot vote. it depends what and how you play.

In a blob of 30 Boyz, for sure the Painboy is great. And as soon as you talk about vehicles, the KFF makes the job.
For bikers, the combination of both is devastating

And, besides that, keep also in mind the Mega Force Field for 25 more points.

Though, it comes with a nerfed mob rule and a mandatory elite choice.

In my eyes, a KFF gets you there where a Painboy keeps you there. It really depends on your army composition and what roles you're trying to fill.