Fallen Frontiers by Scale75 - News, Rumors, Previews, etc.!

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**skarsol**

Mymearan wrote:
Uh, what? I specifically asked them about upgrading to get stretch goals a couple of weeks ago, and they said clearly that YES, you will get all stretch goals if you upgrade from $1 after the campaign,

They were wrong.

**Dark Severance**

Triszin wrote:
Lets say If I wanted everything the Riff's had to offer (except the vehicles) + Lee Jenkins?

If you go Trooper Pledge ($70), you can get everything Riff related without vehicles for $214. However you do not get stretch goals, really just missing out on the PDF playmat, campaign book and painting DVD.

If you go Assault Trooper Pledge ($105), you can get a Riff vs Ares box and all Riff related without vehicles for $219. You will get the stretch goals, which why it ends up being similar because of free heroes. If we get to $130K that unlocks 2 new Riff heroes but also a 3rd free hero, so you would simply add another $15.

The pricing above doesn't including shipping, so depending on your region add in the shipping. Personally I'd go the Assault Trooper route. You technically could downgrade to Trooper later if you decided that was a better option, but you get more bang for only a few dollars more at AT level.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mymearan wrote:
Uh, what? I specifically asked them about upgrading to get stretch goals a couple of weeks ago, and they said clearly that YES, you will get all stretch goals if you upgrade from $1 after the campaign,

I'm going through comments trying to determine if it was specific. I know they definitely answered Black Freeday but can't remember on the stretch goals part though. Unfortunately with the new KS interface, it is really annoying.

**Pilgrim_uk**

Just a pity the new Heroes pack is not a pledge. I did ask about delivery times for heroes but so far its been left unanswered.

Updated didn't mean price for postage.

**Dark Severance**

I messaged Scale about the Stretch Goals and access after the pledge manager. It does appear it was asked and stated that they would get access. I let them know where it was at, so they can figure out if there was a change or a misunderstanding somewhere.

Pilgrim_uk wrote:
Just a pity the new Heroes pack is not a pledge. I did ask about postage for heroes but so far its been left unanswered.

If you are just getting heroes, meaning $1 pledge + Heroes pack for $131, shipping would be $25 to USA and Europe and $35 to RoW.

**Triszin**

Are these discounted through the Kickstarter, or will they be the around the same price after the kickstarter?

I might just piece it out, and paint em and buy a few more and paint em. With my schedule I dont want to feel overwhelmed.

**Dark Severance**

Triszin wrote:
Are these discounted through the Kickstarter, or will they be the around the same price after the kickstarter?

I might just piece it out, and paint em and buy a few more and paint em. With my schedule I dont want to feel overwhelmed.

Do you mean retail wise or pledge manager after it closes? They did say the KS prices were discounted and they didn't have a MSRP for them yet. What that discount is and how much is unknown.

**Dentry**

Ok, looks like I'm going Sayx and Ares.

Is there a picture anywhere that shows the pledges complete with applicable stretch goals? Trying to decide on which add-ons to grab but I'd like to avoid purchasing anything already coming my way.

So far just adding Kyra as she can work for both my chosen factions.

**Pilgrim_uk**

Actually was talking about would it be possible to get items sooner since folk are not waiting on items from china like cards and boxed items.

**Dark Severance**

Dentry wrote:
Ok, looks like I'm going Sayx and Ares.

Is there a picture anywhere that shows the pledges complete with applicable stretch goals? Trying to decide on which add-ons to grab but I'd like to avoid purchasing anything already coming my way.

Do these help?

http://tinyurl.com/pvlhvpg

http://tinyurl.com/oba4795

Pilgrim_uk wrote:
Actually was talking about would it be possible to get items sooner since folk are not waiting on items from china like cards and boxed items.

I am fairly sure the answer is no because heroes are still waiting for items from China. Each hero has cards, boxes. The cards for the heroes aren't in the base core box, they come with each individual heroes and troops from what it shows.

**Pilgrim_uk**

Yeah but whats the point in cards when its obvious you aren't going to play the game just ship it in a box. It would be good if you had the choice.

**Dark Severance**

Pilgrim_uk wrote:
Yeah but whats the point in cards when its obvious you aren't going to play the game just ship it in a box. It would be good if you had the choice.

It adds inconvenience to having to deal with two separate shipments. They are already going to have to run multiple lists with the Core Box choices. Personally I'm not a fan of KS where some backers get some items first before others. The only time that I see it being acceptable is in Forward Base's case because their whole KS is about creating product and shipping in multiple waves. Plus there is no way for them to store that product effectively with the quantities they are making so it made more sense.

As much as I love my Battle Systems scifi set, it was the one thing that bothered me. Granted some of that wasn't their issue it was Wayland Games issue but it was really disappointing when backers get items 'months' before you get yours. Look at Robotech RPG tactics, the way they shipped was awful so backers were getting their product but because of it, others have to wait months. Not all of them were people who are playing the game either, they just wanted the miniatures. It is just poor taste in my opinion.

**str00dles1**

I saw it in the KS page a few days ago...I think but now I cant find it. Didn't they have a game play video? I have more deadzone then I know what to do with and kind of just wondering what makes this different. IF someone has the video link id love to watch it

**Dark Severance**

str00dles1 wrote:
I saw it in the KS page a few days ago...I think but now I cant find it. Didn't they have a game play video? I have more deadzone then I know what to do with and kind of just wondering what makes this different. IF someone has the video link id love to watch it

They don't have a game play video that I know of. The rules are still in Alpha. It was demo'd at GenCon and there might of been video of that but I haven't seen it. You are able to download the alpha rules, although pretty rough, and they did give a couple examples of game play in the updates.

I haven't played Deadzone so I couldn't tell you the difference. However this game does utilize deck building to a degree. You basically create a armoury and troop deck that matches your play style and helps your troops. Then using command points and resources gathered through objectives in the game, you can draw cards, power those cards, etc.

**Pilgrim_uk**

t adds inconvenience to having to deal with two separate shipments. They are already going to have to run multiple lists with the Core Box choices. Personally I'm not a fan of KS where some backers get some items first before others. The only time that I see it being acceptable is in Forward Base's case because their whole KS is about creating product and shipping in multiple waves. Plus there is no way for them to store that product effectively with the quantities they are making so it made more sense. .

Yep this is the obvious one that I mentioned a couple of pages back about administration. If you have a decent "list" system I don't see it being an inconvenience its just another level to the "list". Personally I am fan of of backers getting items before others. How do you know they can store those items effectively?

As much as I love my Battle Systems scifi set, it was the one thing that bothered me. Granted some of that wasn't their issue it was Wayland Games issue but it was really disappointing when backers get items 'months' before you get yours. Look at Robotech RPG tactics, the way they shipped was awful so backers were getting their product but because of it, others have to wait months. Not all of them were people who are playing the game either, they just wanted the miniatures. It is just poor taste in my opinion.

Its obviously something you are going to be biased about. I don't see why its poor taste but great customer service. I do just want the miniatures you make it sound like a bad thing.

@stroodles

They had a gameplay example but it was just images and text last week

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/298260359/fallen-frontiers-reboot/posts/1066080

**Dentry**

Dark Severance wrote:
Do these help?

http://tinyurl.com/pvlhvpg

http://tinyurl.com/oba4795

Indeed. Much appreciated.

**Dark Severance**

Pilgrim_uk wrote:
Its obviously something you are going to be biased about. I don't see why its poor taste but great customer service. I do just want the miniatures you make it sound like a bad thing.

I wouldn't say I'm biased but I did say it was my opinion. It can and can't be seen as good customer service. There are backers who paid just as much to help create the project and make it a reality. I realize that you aren't playing the game and just want the miniatures, we all want them for different reasons. It comes down to the fact that we all backed at roughly the same time, paid money and someone ends up getting product before others... that is where it is not seen as good customer service. It doesn't really matter how those individuals use the product if they chose to play the game or just to paint miniatures but someone got product before someone else.

As a business too they have to be looking and what is going to keep the business running. They are launching a game and are those 'miniature' painters going to be the one who helps expand the product and keeps the game going? I realize that is subjective but but the painters aren't playing the game, demoing and therefore not growing it. They also pay less money than the other backers and gamers who play it for the game. Setting money aside though it ultimately just comes down to someone getting product before another person. Then we'll have the people who paid the 'most' demanding they get product before those that paid less. Granted some KS projects have been that way and reverse method as well, either take care of easy projects first or complicated and ship... it really depends on the operation and space. Most of those are 1-2 man operations though.

Like I said just my opinion based as not only a customer but as someone who runs a business. It makes other people feel like someone got preferential treatment over others. Emotions aside I understand how it can make logical sense but gamers aren't logical when it comes to getting product. It was always the one bad thing about GenCon, dealers have badges that get them in an hour early. They were able to buy and line up and get exclusives long before the average person and often by the time the average person got there, even those who waited first in line at the door... they were out for the day.

**Pilgrim_uk**

It is something of a dichotomy we have.

You see it as unfair ( or bad customer service) when folk get preferential treatment I understand that. So if a backer buys 2 miniatures from the campaign, pays the shipping, then has to wait 12 months the same time as a boxed game backer then you can see how somebody might feel that's poor customer service or unfair. I agree gamers pay more in the long run but I don't think you can discount the amount generated by painters at the initial project level. Really do think they are missing a trick by not having a painters level.

Its your opinion and I'm cool with that. Like you I have my own personal reasons, opinions and quirks for a project. (One of which is a good experience with the company before.) Think I'm probably in the minority though and just wait till they go retail.

**Dark Severance**

Pilgrim_uk wrote:
Its your opinion and I'm cool with that. Like you I have my own personal reasons, opinions and quirks for a project. (One of which is a good experience with the company before.)

Yeah it really is just a difference of opinion. Like I said I do understand the want to a degree. They are making them in house, so providing it takes 3-4 months to create the miniatures, print out their final versions it can logically make sense to send those out. I can understand that but at the same time it isn't fair to other backers. If they decide to do that though, I'm not going to complain or cry about it but I guarantee there will be people that do.

The other issue let's say that someone says they only want the miniatures and they ship it. Then 8-12 months later that person decides they want to sell their miniature but the buyer wants the cards with it or they have decided that now they want to play the game. The person could technically claim they not given '100%' of what they pledged for or that it was incomplete. To prevent that the company has to now create a waiver, have the backer sign the waiver saying they won't do that and keep that on file indefinitely. I realize that the majority of the people would never do that... but there are people that would, it ends up becoming more of a hassle long term.

However if they did make a painter pledge, I could see them being able to say 'miniatures only' with no cards and will ship X date. That would be fine in that sense because it was outlined from the beginning that way. Personally I feel like the Heroes Pack is really a painters pledge pack though, between that and Trooper or Assault Trooper a painter can get a very wide variety. I have seen a couple KS do something like that but it isn't too common.

**Mymearan**

This is what they said on Nov 17, I sure hope they weren't lying:

SCALE GAMES LLC on November 17
Yes, changing to higher pledges from $1 after the Kickstarter will give you access to the stretch goals.

**Dark Severance**

Mymearan wrote:
This is what they said on Nov 17, I sure hope they weren't lying:

SCALE GAMES LLC on November 17
Yes, changing to higher pledges from $1 after the Kickstarter will give you access to the stretch goals.

Unfortunately I believe there is a communication error along the campaign. I do have to say I'm surprised that it took this long for there to be a communication problem... only because last time there were some misunderstandings. They have done a pretty good job so far so I can understand there being some confusion.

I did send them another message because their latest comment doesn't' clear up the misunderstanding. Again in it states "until the end of the KS campaign", now traditionally that means when the campaign closes and doesn't include the pledge manager. However it was asked what that meant and it was stated that it was after the pledge manager closes. I'm not sure if they realize that verbiage is confusing so when used again it doesn't clear up any misunderstandings.

I messaged them saying if they truly want to use "end of KS campaign", that traditionally means when the KS closes in 51 hours. If something is available after the pledge manager, it should be stated "after the Pledge Manager" closes and not 'end of the KS campaign' to be absolutely clear and not cause confusion. Just so it is completely crystal clear to backers. I can understand the decision either way from both their aspect and the backers, it can be sucky for some backers though and they just need to make the decision and be clear about it.

However I will say this... not that it will mean anything because I don't know what pledge manager they will use. If they use a standard PM and not make one themselves, which they may or may not have a programmer on staff, technically when you upgrade your pledge shouldn't effect SG. The backer kits normally don't have a way to say "X people who were at this pledge get this" and "X people who were at this pledge and upgraded to this get this". Once you upgrade a pledge, the PMs are usually set up you get the perks associated with the level. There isn't a way to discern those who upgraded from the $1 pledge because now they are X Pledge Level. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it isn't how the typical backer kits are associated. There is a very high chance that $1 pledges will still get SG's even if they say they won't.

Examples like MERC kit had an issue with shipping. You had to lock in your add-ons, money before X date because they were making the add-ons cost more for new backers (to include extra shipping costs). They were only able to do it globally. Even Infamy even though I pledged on level, once I upgrade to another I get the perks doesn't matter when I backed because that is the only way to really set up the levels.

**str00dles1**

Thanks for the link to the text/picture gameplay.

I'll be honest, what they showed, I think its pretty horrible. Having to roll to see if you can act is never good, even worse if you get screwed twice. It puts way to much luck on the line. They try to balance it out by having the person that got screwed go twice, but at that point youve already taken a beating. I dont know ranges/damage/combat in general for the game, but I cant imagine it being "ok" someone guys to shoot all his guys twice before you can do anything.

I'll be sticking to Deadzone

**Dark Severance**

str00dles1 wrote:
Thanks for the link to the text/picture gameplay.

I'll be honest, what they showed, I think its pretty horrible. Having to roll to see if you can act is never good, even worse if you get screwed twice. It puts way to much luck on the line. They try to balance it out by having the person that got screwed go twice, but at that point youve already taken a beating. I dont know ranges/damage/combat in general for the game, but I cant imagine it being "ok" someone guys to shoot all his guys twice before you can do anything.

I'll be sticking to Deadzone

It is still early alpha and that is entirely an accurate picture because it only shows a piece, just to highlight how fatigue works. However that isn't entirely how that works. A round is 4 phases and a player can only initiative twice in a round tops. You can't win initiative 3-4 times in a 1 round. It is probably easier if you read the Alpha Rules as that example is show someone could get fatigue. Meaning they won initiative the last 2 phases in the round 1 and won the first phase of round 2. It isn't as easy as it sounds. it is initially designed to prevent someone from winning initiative every time, hence why 4 phases in a round that both players still get 2 actions and will at the very least, have initiative during those 2 times. If that makes sense.

That isn't even taking into account the armory deck and action/reaction deck with cards in your hands that changes that around. There isn't a lot of luck on the dice as much as how you build your deck, combination of heroes with the squads chosen that changes gameplay. I can see where it seems like that based on the fatigue example though.

**Alpharius**

Update #35

Dec 3 2014

Gameplay Example: Armory & Units
Comment
6 likes

Hello everyone,

Before we take you through a short gameplay presentation, we wanted to show you a little something you asked for.The model for Lee Jenkins will come with two head options, one with his helmet and one without a helmet.

Sometimes you just want to catch some fresh air...

Today we are going to show you an example of how the armory and units interact with each other. Note that this a simplified example for illustration purposes, and that some of the card text and pictures may change.

The table setup is simple. The Riffs player is at the top with 1 squad and the “Smoke Grenades” card, whilst the Ares player is at the bottom with 1 squad, which contains Bitsie.

The Riffs player, knowing that the Ares troops outmatch him in ranged combat, has a plan to hold his position whilst protecting himself from the enemy fire. He is going to use the “Smoke Grenades” card to create a barrier between his squad and the Ares squad, which they cannot shoot through.

The Riffs have the initiative, and the player sets his plan in motion. He plays the “Smoke Grenades” card, and places a marker between the buildings, blocking the Ares line of sight. Then he decides to hold the position with his squad, keeping them ready to charge the Ares in case they decide to come at them through the smoke.

The next phase starts, and the Ares have the Initiative. Unbeknownst to the Riffs player, the Ares player had already prepared himself for things like this. He searches his Armory deck and plays the “Thermo Sight” card for 1 Krithium on Bitsie.

The “Thermo Sight” card allows Bitsie and her squad to see through the smoke, completely ruining his opponent’s plan. Everybody shoots through the smoke, and the Riffs squad is helpless in the open, taking 3 wounds.

That’s it for right now. We hope you enjoyed this little gameplay example, and if you have any questions please post them in the comments below!

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also:

Creator SCALE GAMES LLC 40 minutes ago

@Alexander - The Kickstarter campaign is our way to get funded, and so we need to know on how much money we can count once the Kickstarter ends. We don't know how much money we will make through the pledge manager period, and so Stretch Goals are limited to those who pledged at the Assault Trooper level or higher during the campaign. This also allows us to start producing as fast as possible as we know exactly how many copies of each thing we have to make from the get-go, speeding up the production process. For those that raise their pledge during the Pledge Manager period there are still the Black Friday freebies.
@Baku - No, that's something that would hold up production, especially if everybody does it.

"Baku" asked:

Baku about 1 hour ago

I really hope that we will hit 10k more in the next two days.
By the way, If I choose the "Faction" pledge, may I trade in the vehicle for credit towards other things? I am not a fan of vehicles in miniature games...

**Dark Severance**

Going over the numbers because I do realize when we tend to think stretch goals, it means a lot more than a few heroes, at least in terms of CMoN and Mantic. With that in mind really the only thing $1 pledge now, upgrade later or pledging AT now is $30-45. The .PDFs I'm sure will be distributed and shared amongst the community so that won't be an issue.

Now at first that can seem like a lot. That is essentially shipping and a hero. I tend to ask the real question though, does that really effect the value of the Assault Trooper.

$1 Pledge, switching to Core Box in PM with shipping, even without stretch goals still comes out to $130-$145 ($3.82 - $3.94 per miniature), depending which faction version you take (ie: 33 or 38 miniatures).

Assault Trooper Pledge with shipping, with stretch goals is still $130-145 ($3.63 - $3.73 per miniature), depending on which faction version you take (ie: 35 or 40 miniatures).

It comes out to a difference in cents when it is compared to the big picture of per miniature value. I still can't think of any project where I can beat $4 or less resin miniatures.

**str00dles1**

Wish there was an option just for the PDF maps. Would love to use them for infinity or deadzone

**Dark Severance**

str00dles1 wrote:
Wish there was an option just for the PDF maps. Would love to use them for infinity or deadzone

I am sure they will be 'available' afterwards. I will be in the process of sourcing a place to get the PDFs printed on playmats once I get more information on them.

**cincydooley**

str00dles1 wrote:
Wish there was an option just for the PDF maps. Would love to use them for infinity or deadzone

Bah. You can have mine. I have little to zero interest in them. Printing them on my own sounds like a pain in the ass.

**str00dles1**

Haha thanks guys. I know a guy who works at a print place so

**Triszin**

I have to sit down tonight and look at my stuff on my to do list. then decide if it's worth it to back it now, or just buy the stuff later.

stuff does look fantastic though.

**Alpharius**

I definitely think it's worth it - as DS noted above, you'll be hard pressed to find high quality resin figures for $4 each anywhere.

Of course this is all good only if you like what's on offer here!

I really like the Riff and Sayx, and Ares are nice too.

Harvesters aren't doing it for me presently, but they're close - I can still be swayed!

Automatically Appended Next Post:
We're in the Final Forty-Eight now...

Update #36

Dec 3 2014

Fallen Frontiers Last 48 Hours!
Comment
2 likes

Hello everyone,

Fallen Frontiers is heading into its last 48 hours of funding, and so we decided to write up a little re-cap of what this campaign is all about.
The Game

This Kickstarter was made to fund the Fallen Frontiers game, a two-player sci-fi miniatures game where powerful heroes meet in futuristic battles. The game features highly strategic gameplay and deep player customization, making for a fast-pace and tactical experience.

Through the customization of a deck of cards, and the deployment of heroes the players can change up how their army plays, shifting and adapting strategies depending on the situation. These heroes provide boosts to their squads, meaning that by simply swapping out a hero your same units will behave differently and you gameplay style will change.

We have posted a few gameplay examples already, which you can find here:

Phases & Fatigue: http://kck.st/15D5tnC
Cards & Units: http://kck.st/1CufTV9
Armory & Units: http://kck.st/15OTVO1

The Box

Everyone who buys the game box will get an Exclusive Kickstarter Limited Edition box, which features special cover art, and comes with a numbered backer certificate and set of four faction post cards.

The box has everything you need to get started with Fallen Frontiers, and comes with miniatures, bases, scenery, cards, counters, the rulebook, a ruler and dice. This box is customizable, allowing you to choose one of six possible combinations of armies.

Depending on your choice you will get either 33 or 38 high quality resin miniatures, from basic troopers to mighty heroes. Note that if you select a combination of armies with a total of 38 miniatures, you will have to add $15 to your pledge.

You can see everything you get in the box and what your army choices are here: http://bit.ly/11Uwe4L
Additional Free Content

Since the launch of the campaign we have unlocked various things through Stretch Goals and our Black Friday deals.

This means that in addition to your pledge you will get Free Heroes, a Painting DVD, a Narrative Campaign, Scenic Bases, and more, depending on your pledge levels.

With so much extra content, it might become difficult to grasp exactly what comes with which pledge, and so we have put together this image to give you a better understanding of what you are getting:

Heroes And More

As you can see some of the pledge levels come with extra heroes that are not part of the Starter Box, and we give you the opportunity to choose which heroes you want.

Any Hero worth up to $15 may be picked as one of your choices, regardless of what factions you have taken for your Starter Box. If you run out of free hero selections you can also buy more heroes by adding their value to your pledge amount.

You can see all heroes that you may choose from here: http://bit.ly/1yMHlbF

There are plenty of other things you can buy to expand your army. There is a wide selection of special units that are not included in the Starter Box, there are Vehicles for all factions, and there are other things such as Scenery Packs, Scenic Bases, and more.

You can see all add-ons that you can purchase here: http://bit.ly/1I0jeLZ
The Last 48 Hours

So you got your Starter Box, you’ve picked whatever Heroes and Add-ons you wanted... and now what?

You can find a ton of background story for the various heroes, factions and more directly from our website: http://www.fallenfrontiers.com/

We still have some hidden things that we have not revealed yet, and the campaign is far from over, so let’s smash a couple of stretch goals and find out!

Thank you all for your support.