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Why wouldn't you want a battlewagon instead? Feels so expensive for a truck.

I have been enjoying and winning friendly battles with the following:


Warboss + Big Choppa
+
10 x Nobs + Big Choppa + Waaargh Banner
+
PainBoy
+
BattleWagon + Deff Rolla + Killkannon


..now I know this isn't the most competitive build, its a huge 530 or so points making it a priority target and it is very vulnerable to S8 large blast.

However... I find the transport normally gets them the distance they need.. which is great as once they disembark my opponents tend to forget about it (handy as the killkannon puts out quite a bit of hurt once in range, the deffrolla is for laffs if the battlewagon can still move at this point).

The Nobz mob is a huge terror and causes a considerable amount of psychological damage to opponents, 40+ S7 attacks is dangerous and they know it!

I find multi-charging effective as cover will probably be causing me to lose the charge bonus anyway, this means I have more chance of being tied up in combat during the opponents shooting phase, and hopefully, the melee will tempt the enemy warlord to join in (If I hadn't charged them already).

I find that once combat has begun on turn 2, this brawl continues to distract the enemy for the rest of the game.



Yeah, it's a shame they aren't troops, and a shame they haven't got a Painboy without using HQ slot, and furious charge with Big Choppa's was better when there was the +1 initiative but hey.. they're xenos scum so had to expect nerfs.

I am aware that over time my opponents will adapt strategies to eliminate this threat, but for now my Nobs have great fun.

I'm not sure if they earn their points back, I do feel they cause enough problems to my enemy to allow other units to score above their points values and grab the necessary VP's

The other thing they do is look freaking awesome. I love the nobz models and with the big choppa's they're great!

I also love tearing apart land raiders to make battlewagons!

I recently became aware of the blitz brigade.. it's very tempting!



so.. conclusion to my rant:

A fully Choppa'd Nob-star is a good laff if thats what you like doin'.

Nobz have lost bigtime in our most recent codex, imo.

Last edition had a great balance - Nobz had invluns & FNP, and MANZ had 2+ armor. The way I kitted them out, they were actually about the same cost per nob.

So, nobz could handle stuff with AP2, and MANZ would crush everything else.

Now.....neither have invluns, and both have the same acess to FNP. So, the only advantages nobz have are running, overwatch, fewer transport cap, and sweeping advance. They are cheaper, but not by much, at least when kitted out with big choppas, PKs, and eavy armor. Hell, if you tried to equip a nob like a meganob (PK, 'eavy armor, TL shoota), they're 10 points more for 4+ instead of 2+ armor.

In short......meganobz are a fantastic value, and nobz simply have no competitive benefits over meganobz anymore. They have the waaagh banner, but DLS confers the same bonus to MANZ.

But in summary......nobz don't have much of a spot for me anymore, outside of the supplement council of the waaagh formation.

I also don't think that biker nobz are at all worth it anymore. They're a "deathstar" that has neither CC invluns nor fearless. I really don't think that biker nobz would have a prayer against a titan. 3+ cover, ok, sure, but in CC they're going to get absolutely crushed, especially if they wind up afraid of the super-heavy.

One of the biggest issues with nobz is mob rule. MR is most effective for mobs of more than 10, which nobz cannot be. So, right off the bad MR has a 50/50 chance of simply failing. Couple that with their godAWFUL leadership, and they're going to be failing LD/MR tests all over the place unless they're baby-sat by a warboss, which is basically required.

For me, though, if I bring nobz, I bring good nobz - I don't like half-assing them with min squads armed with choppas. I give them about a 3:1 big choppaK ratio, eavy armor, a warboss, and at least a trukk (usually a BW). Often I'll give them a painboy and a wierdboy as well.

Generally, though, I think MANZ are a better value for their points cost.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
In short......meganobz are a fantastic value, and nobz simply have no competitive benefits over meganobz anymore. They have the waaagh banner, but DLS confers the same bonus to MANZ.

I suppose this depends on how you use your MANz, but I disagree. To me it's theoryhammer vs how your army is really designed to work together.

MANz are a bully unit that rely on brute force. They should be causing havoc behind your opponent's lines, smashing up vehicles and slaughtering his regular troops. WS5 is OTT for the sort of targets they are designed to kill. You *could* try to make a death star, but IMO it wouldn't be points efficient, mainly because of the lack of invulnerable save. Hence the popularity of the MANz missile tactic. I suppose you could put a painboy in the unit if you wanted to go that route... but then, this would mess up your target saturation.

Additionally, if your regular Nobz have the waaagh! banner, that means you can use DLS elsewhere - I would recommend a large slugga boyz squad to turn your opponent's elite troops into overpriced pate, but if you really wanted to, you could take your meganob star alongside your waaagh! banner nobz.

 koooaei wrote:
Why wouldn't you want a battlewagon instead? Feels so expensive for a truck.

well, i was thinking of it as using all the transport space you pay for with the price of the battlewagon vs trukk (20 vs 10). On second glance, though, it is a rather poor idea to use a trukk. unless it makes it where it needs to go and manages to somehow not explode turn one, unless they're 'ard, they're going to lose a ton of wounds, and that just ups their cost even more.

What do you think about big choppas on most of the nobs? I know it raises their cost even more, but the ability to have a ton of s7 (even at ap5!) attacks along with a good deal of PK hits on the charge seems great.

Do you feel the +2 s gained from big choppas is worth the loss of one attack (from two handed) and the extra points cost? s 7 can still pretty reliably take down most tanks that aren't land raiders or monoliths after all!

My nobs don't do anything for me in games, they kinda die super quick. In my opinion only use them as nob bikers or have them in a battle wagon for the extra protection.

As I said before I don't tend to use nob squads, there too squishy to be good, and require a hefty amount of points to keep them somewhat safe. Just my thoughts

ancraig wrote:
What do you think about big choppas on most of the nobs? I know it raises their cost even more, but the ability to have a ton of s7 (even at ap5!) attacks along with a good deal of PK hits on the charge seems great.

Do you feel the +2 s gained from big choppas is worth the loss of one attack (from two handed) and the extra points cost? s 7 can still pretty reliably take down most tanks that aren't land raiders or monoliths after all!

Big choppas are not worth it unless you want to give the nobz carrying them some kind of ranged weapon - if you are not going to get the extra attack you might as well shoot slightly better. But they are an expensive unit and I wouldn't advocate arming the whole squad like this.

Also, bear in mind that attacks against vehicles (except walkers) in hand to hand count as being against the vehicle's rear armour (I too outfitted my nobz with big choppaz until I discovered this rule). Most have rear armour 10, which even Boyz can handle no problem, and for those that have rear armour 11, charging nobz are s5 with their normal choppas.

ancraig wrote:

What do you think about big choppas on most of the nobs? I know it raises their cost even more, but the ability to have a ton of s7 (even at ap5!) attacks along with a good deal of PK hits on the charge seems great.

Do you feel the +2 s gained from big choppas is worth the loss of one attack (from two handed) and the extra points cost? s 7 can still pretty reliably take down most tanks that aren't land raiders or monoliths after all!

Personally, i'm not a fan of bigchoppas. Nobz allready have 5 s5 attacks on the charge. I'd rather have a single klaw than 5 bigchoppas cause a klaw provides versatility while a big choppa is just some sort of a choppa + 1 for 5 pts.

I'd rather have big choppaz on regular boyz, to be honest. While nobz can easilly have a hidden klaw or two, all boyz have vs tougher targets is just one character nob. So, i see some use for a bigchoppa to get 3 s6 or 2 s5 attacks just in case. Well worth 5 pts here. But when a squad allready has a bunch of s5 and easy access to PK that's not gona be challenged out.

I always have a soft spot for nobz, though ti could be because I don't own any MANZ yet. :/

The times I do run Nobz, they do a decent enough job at what I want them to do, and that's be a low priority bully unit. I tend to pop them in trukks and give them Big Choppas and a single Klaw to keep them cheap, usually a max of 7 Nobz if I have the extra points. I've had these reserve Nobz come out and bust open Marine Dreadnaughts that have been hounding my Boyz, or come out and chase off an opponents attempt at outflanking or drop podding in. Marines don't really like the idea of going fisticuffs with them for obvious reasons. I tend to use Big Choppas so they don't cause explosions and risk more wounds on them, but so they also still pack a decent whollop.

Unless they get a point decrease somehow, some way, they won't ever be a highly fielded unit. (Even with a point drop, I don't think they will get MUCH more play). I still play them because it's fluffy, and they CAN work, depending on how well your opponent knows the Ork book. My room mate for the longest time would do what a lot of players do, and just write the nobz off as a threat until they actually got a few arms and legs hacked off and realized they were foolish to let them live.

In the end, if they don't get to chop, they at least distracted gun fire from more important things. If they DO get to chop, they'll get some points back and you get to laugh a bit.

-If you gave your nobz TL shoota you would lose one CC attack. The Big Choppa is a great way to ensure you inflict the same amount of CC wounds.

-Seems efficient to shoot a MAN with a lascannon. Not soo efficient to double out the nob. However, nobz are likely to die to bolter fire. Is this an advantage? ... idk

-For the cost of a squad of manz you can have two squads of nobz

-if you invest further and make a nobz squad bigger it can become more killy and ueful for other things at a loss of effiency. Investing in a squad of meganobz and making it more kill makes it overkilly in most situations, and inefficient before you do anything with it.

Does any of this really make an arguement for the usefulness of nobz? ..no not really.

A nob with a TL shoota is equal to three shoota toting boyz. They do a little less than three times the damage than the nob, a little more than twice the damage in CC. They are more likely to incur a LD check and take up three transport capacity compared to the one that a nob uses and the two a meganobz uses. Does this mean they fill a niche? ..nope

Sorry for necro, but i've recently come up with a use for them. Inside an outflanking naught with combi-skorchas! If it actually works RAW-wise. Though, debatable once again if they're better than meganobz in this role. But they have numbers going for therm. You can field more nobz - thus ablative wounds or more skorchas and they're able to take an indep in there. One of the meks from mogrok bossboyz can easilly join in there and tank wounds with megaarmor for example. Or provide a KFF for the squad and a naught. You still need to put your exceedingly large ammount of indeps with a bossboy formation to use, so, why not?

I'm addicted to doing math hammer for situations like this. With Mogrok's Bossboyz, giving the Naught outflank and acute senses gives it an 88% chance of coming on the perfect side to do damage. So most games it will succeed.

So 12 inch range of side of board, you come on with 6 base Nobz (keep it cheap or go for 'eavy armor?) leader has BP. Give every Nob a Kombi-Skorcha. Against marines, you go 12 inches, and find a prime target (there should be infantry within 12 inches of the side you come on. If there isn't, don't leave the vehicle probably). This squad costs 173 points, 197 with 'eavy armor. Ultra Suicide Squad!!! 6 Nobz with Kombi-Skorchas, with 12 inch range, assume they can reach an infantry squad.

MEQ (I always like to work counter MEQ, because I find that they are pretty common in my area)
6 shots x 3 hits (templates are good like that) = 18 hits
18 hits x 2/3 wounds = 12 wounds
12 wounds /3 = 4 deaths.

not very effective. You just spent 173 points for a squad that killed 4 marines (56 points?). Sadly I don't think this works.

To be honest, i rarely see 3+ backfield units. More often than not i face guyz with 4+ or 5+ in heavy cover. 3+ guyz that are left back are usually guyz with heavy weapons. And they're comparable point to point with your squad. Though, you'll get a bit fewer hits i guess.

And i'm actually thinking about 3-4 combi-skorchas and probably a megamek from bossboyz - as you got to use all those indeps anywayz. I think they'll roll the backlines quite reliably while the naught could become an anvil lumbering towards the rear of your foes that are allready pressed from the front by boyz. Don't know if it's gonabe so devastatingly effective on the TT but it's tacticacl as hell!

What do you think bout it? What other options do we have that will do better in this role?
Burna boyz don't have staying power to remain a threat afterwards.
Flash gitz? Now that's interesting. not sure if they're gona be more effective than skorcha nobz for the alpha-strike due to backfield units sticking to cover.
Tankbustas are an interesting option too but they have a different role. More likely to shoot at the rear of the opponent's tanks and not clear the backline.

So, the main contesters are meganobz, i think.

 koooaei wrote:
To be honest, i rarely see 3+ backfield units. More often than not i face guyz with 4+ or 5+ in heavy cover. 3+ guyz that are left back are usually guyz with heavy weapons. And they're comparable point to point with your squad. Though, you'll get a bit fewer hits i guess.

And i'm actually thinking about 3-4 combi-skorchas and probably a megamek from bossboyz - as you got to use all those indeps anywayz. I think they'll roll the backlines quite reliably while the naught could become an anvil lumbering towards the rear of your foes that are allready pressed from the front by boyz. Don't know if it's gonabe so devastatingly effective on the TT but it's tacticacl as hell!

What do you think bout it? What other options do we have that will do better in this role?
Burna boyz don't have staying power to remain a threat afterwards.
Flash gitz? Now that's interesting. not sure if they're gona be more effective than skorcha nobz for the alpha-strike due to backfield units sticking to cover.
Tankbustas are an interesting option too but they have a different role. More likely to shoot at the rear of the opponent's tanks and not clear the backline.

So, the main contesters are meganobz, i think.

I thought about adding the Megamek, but it was very expensive. Also, do you plan on using 'eavy armor?. I get the feeling that MANZ could do this job better if you were using the Megamek, because they are all 2+ armor! instead of 1 tank. At that point it's only 1 Kombi-Skorcha difference, and 70 points less for MANZ.

In my meta, nobs have overhyped reputations, and so I can use a small squad of 'eavy nobs as a distraction carnifex, or if they sit in good cover near the middle of the board no one will go near them (especially if I haven't called the Waaagh yet.)

 Waaagh 18 wrote:

I thought about adding the Megamek, but it was very expensive. Also, do you plan on using 'eavy armor?. I get the feeling that MANZ could do this job better if you were using the Megamek, because they are all 2+ armor! instead of 1 tank. At that point it's only 1 Kombi-Skorcha difference, and 70 points less for MANZ.

Yep, 3 MANz feel more threatening than basic nobz. Moreover, Manz pay 5 pts for combi-skorchas while nobz pay 10. C-Skorchas + 'eavy armor gets you +14 pts per nob making him cost almost 3/4 the cost of a meganob which is too expensive for what he gets.
On the other hand, you've got lots of spare indeps. Why not take megamek with a c-skorcha and a min squad of nobz for ablative wounds? That's gona be a nice backfield bully squad. And 6+ majority armor vs gravguns + more point-effective against ap2 stuff when you factor in look-outs.

 koooaei wrote:

 Waaagh 18 wrote:

I thought about adding the Megamek, but it was very expensive. Also, do you plan on using 'eavy armor?. I get the feeling that MANZ could do this job better if you were using the Megamek, because they are all 2+ armor! instead of 1 tank. At that point it's only 1 Kombi-Skorcha difference, and 70 points less for MANZ.

Yep, 3 MANz feel more threatening than basic nobz. Moreover, Manz pay 5 pts for combi-skorchas while nobz pay 10. C-Skorchas + 'eavy armor gets you +14 pts per nob making him cost almost 3/4 the cost of a meganob which is too expensive for what he gets.
On the other hand, you've got lots of spare indeps. Why not take megamek with a c-skorcha and a min squad of nobz for ablative wounds? That's gona be a nice backfield bully squad. And 6+ majority armor vs gravguns + more point-effective against ap2 stuff when you factor in look-outs.

That could have some merit. Maybe bring 3 'eavy armored Nobz for ablative wounds, and crowd in 1 Big Mek and 1 DLS MA Warboss (maybe with Kombi-Skorcha). The Warboss tanks wounds, while the SAG shoots. The Warboss can take a TON of punishment, and singelhandedly win a combat, especially against long range backfield squatters.. You have a SNP SAG in their backfield, to dish out hurt as they move forward. Then you simply leave him behind when you charge something with the rest of the squad (Many even just charge out the individual Warboss and leave the Nobz as spare wounds. That's 66 points for 6 extra 4+ armor wounds. It could have some merit, especially given the limited capacity of the gorkanaught. However, Gorkanaughts themselves aren't very viable, because they can be one shotted, so the whole tactic is brought down by its delivery method.

Yep, it's just one of a few ways to run naughts in a regular list with some real tactical use other than footslog there for 4 turns and get immobilized by a pen or a failed dangerous terrain test
Some people love naughts nonetheless.

Anywayz, about Mogrok bossboyz + naught. I've playtested them in vassal yesterday. It was a 1850 pt battle and i can tell that 1850 is too few points for this tactix. I literally had 1 squad of boyz, 1 squad of bikers, mek gunz and a battlewagon on board turn one. And i got outnumbered by space marines...
While it's not so bad for eternal war missions, it's very hard to recover from the loss of board controle in maelstorm early on for orkses. While the squads eventually wiped out the enemy's flanks, he's been ahead by like 7-8 vp by the start of turn 3 just from board controle. Not something i'm used to as an ork player - i field footslogging horde irl.

However, the tactix with a ton of indeps, outflanking naught and something inside it is actually interesting and might work in larger games just fine. Like 2500+ pt. I've tried meganobz with skorchas there. Not bad, not great - they've burned 2 devastators - statistically should have been 3-4 actually. Naught killed...just one. With all his shooting. Guess i got unlucky. Anywayz, he had to respond to the threat and split forces. Another question if nobz + megamek would have been better. Don't know. It's a mixed bag of benefits and drawback.