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a friend of me has a problem with playing his Eldar-Forces. He is always crying, that his Eldar Codex is weak and the Codexes another friend and I use, are imbalanced.
Now in the forum, I always read, that Eldar have one of the strongest Dex in this Edition. We really don't know, what he is doing wrong. He is playing mostly against Dark Eldar, Tau, Orcs and Necrons. Sometimes against Tyra.
He has nearly any unit, the Codex has to offer. He has just two Wave Serpents and is no fan of spamming the same unit two or three times in his list. We are not playing tournaments, just friendly games. But it would be nice, if the battles would be more balanced and therefore fun.
He is usually using one Wraithknight, three Walkers, two units of Dire Avengers, two Wave Serpents, a unit of Dark Reapers and a unit of Striking Scorpions. His character is usually a Farseer. He is playing very aggressiv, but mostly loosing the games. Is there a trick to play them successful, without spamming Wave Serpents?
Thank you for your help.
The best place to hide something precious is in your beard.
1) Play too passively, and stay too far away from your enemy to shoot at them. Eldar have fairly short ranged weapons, so you need to be moving them into range of the enemy and actually shooting them every turn. New players sometimes fail to do this, being overly concerned about avoiding casualties.
2) Exposing your units too much to enemy fire. With the exception of Wraith units, Eldar units are glass cannons (especially their infantry). Dire Avengers standing out in the open will get wiped out by mundane things like Heavy Bolters. Guardians don't even get saves against most infantry weapons. New player will often grossly miss-judge how much danger their units are in, and unwittingly place them somewhere where they get wiped out easily. This is a case where a bit of coaching might be appropriate (Do you really want to move that squad there? What do you think is going to happen to them during your opponent's turn? Is there a better option for them?).
He is usually using one Wraithknight, three Walkers, two units of Dire Avengers, two Wave Serpents, a unit of Dark Reapers and a unit of Striking Scorpions. His character is usually a Farseer. He is playing very aggressiv, but mostly loosing the games. Is there a trick to play them successful, without spamming Wave Serpents?
This basic composition should be fine, you don't need to spam good units to win with Eldar. The "trick" I would suggest: try to be shooting with all your units, every turn. Focus down enemy units. Abuse Battle Focus to dart in and out of cover when shooting (War Walkers and Dire Avengers should be doing this). Use the Wave Serpents as gunships early in the game, and objective scorers later. Be very aggressive with the Wraithknight. When positioning your unit, think about what is going to happen to them during the enemy turn - which enemy units could conceivably move an shoot at them next turn? Make sure you're casting buffs with your Farseer - he's probably best integrated with your Dark Reapers. Remember that all units score, and it doesn't matter how much of your army is dead at the end of the game, so long as you're scoring more points.
Most of all, just play lots of games - experience is more important than advice from internet forums. It's normal to have quite a few bad games when playing a new army, or when you're just starting out. But whining about it isn't productive. Especially when you're using Eldar, which is quite frankly an easy army to play and win with.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2014/11/12 14:27:46
We are mostly playing eternal war missions with 1.750 Points.
He is testing a lot, but not willed to look into forums. I just want to help him with his Eldar, to motivate him. But I myself don't know much about Eldar. Its more fun, if the enemy is motivated.
The last games he played against my Dark Eldar and Tau and always lost. That is frustrating for him and I understand that.
When I play Tau, I normally play two Fire Warrior Teams in Devilfish, one Riptide, one Flyer, 2 x three Crisis Suits, one Commander with Marker Drone Team, a few Scouts, one Shark and a few Piranhas.
When I play Dark Eldar, I normally play one Archon, a few Incubi on a Venom, a few Mandrakes, two Kabalite Warriors on Raider, on Harphy Team with Impuls, six Reaver Jetbikes, two Flyer and one Ravager.
What would you do against my armies with Eldar?
He often discuss, that the Eldar Bikes are so bad. I often see them used in lists here in the forum. How do you use them?
The best place to hide something precious is in your beard.
Eldar Bikes are good because they're cheap ObSec and the most mobile scoring units in all of 40k (only zooming Flyers can move farther in a turn, and they're non-scoring). Don't be too aggressive with them, try to keep them alive until the end of the game so that they can snatch objectives.
Tau is a pretty even match-up against Eldar, so he should expect to lose the majority of games against them if his opponent is a better player. Main thing he can do is get that Wraithknight into close combat with the Riptides - they'll get rekt. Dark Eldar are a much easier match-up, but inexperienced players can often have a difficult time grokking how to fight them.
He is testing a lot, but not willed to look into forums.
That's probably for the best, it's more fun to discover how to to use your army.
This message was edited 13 times. Last update was at 2014/11/12 19:33:17
I know, that testing is the best way, to discover. But he is playing is Eldar since 5 years now and mostly loosing with them. I just want to help him win some games and get the feeling "Whoa, my strategy worked and I crushed my enemy".
I think he uses his bikes the wrong way. If he played with them, they where always in the frontline and mostly dead in the second player-turn.
His WraithKnight is equipped with those Lances I think and he uses him only for tank-hunting in long distance.
The best place to hide something precious is in your beard.
Grundwels wrote: I know, that testing is the best way, to discover. But he is playing is Eldar since 5 years now and mostly loosing with them. I just want to help him win some games and get the feeling "Whoa, my strategy worked and I crushed my enemy".
I think he uses his bikes the wrong way. If he played with them, they where always in the frontline and mostly dead in the second player-turn.
His WraithKnight is equipped with those Lances I think and he uses him only for tank-hunting in long distance.
Sorry loosing with eldar 5 years is like loosing Car races with a ferrari against some Citroën C4.
If he is not Willing to read tacticas, Forums etc he will alwaYs loose vs a Person who does... Nothing wrong with his Units, maybe leave out he scorpions.
Do not kill. Do not rape. Do not steal. These are principles which every man of every faith can embrace.
For if you do, one day you will look behind you and you will see us And on that day, you will reap it,
and we will send you to whatever god you wish.
Eldar have the ability to create some of the most player friendly and easiest to win with builds out there.
4x5 Dire Avengers in Wave Serpent with Scatter Laser, Shuriken Cannon
2x Wraithknight
is 1260
You can add just about anything to that core and have a successful army. It takes very little thought and skill to play. Have him try that and see what happens.
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From the way you describe his use of jetbikes, it sounds like he's trying to be aggressive in the sense he's trying to get near/in CC with his units. This is pretty much the exact wrong way to run Eldar, with the exception of using the WK for bullying. I use a very similar setup for my armies (recently changed due to DE codex) and have had no issues with any armies. WS spam is the point click tournament build option, but super boring so I applaud him from staying away from it.
WS- Gun boats, use them as such. The DA are mostly a tax for a WS, with the added bonus of being able to sit in their awesome transport all game and score an extra objective. Sit back with the WS and shoot, use DA for late game objective grabs. Only question is shuriken cannon on the chin or not, since holo fields are almost mandatory. I say no cuase having one tempts me to be w/in 24" more often than is necessary, and assault is how WS's die. You want them sitting in back strafing.
War Walkers- Phenomenal when used right. Dual SL or SL/SC are the way to go imo. You could do dual BL, but it makes them an even higher priority target and you don't want these guys in the spotlight. Guided War Walkers erase what they shoot at for the most part. Abuse the fact that they have battle focus, and these guys should always at minimum have a cover save if not be out of LOS after they shoot. Great for terminators as well, because if you throw enough dice at them they'll eventually roll 1's.
WK- Point and click shooting, but you need to take advantage of his movement to take pressure off your more vulnerable units. Keep him up field threating charges so he's taking the heat, not your WW's and DR's. Know that he's great bully, but not a CC monster. Pick on units that either can't hurt him, or don't have great CC abilities. Even then, if it's a squad of > 10 think about it hard. You want him shooting AND assaulting, not tied up by 20 gaunts all game. If you charge a unit of TH/SS termies/Incubi you just wasted 230 points.
Dark Reapers- Expensive for what they do, but can put out the hurt. If he's got to use them, in cover (preferably high in a building) getting guided makes them pretty durable and reliable anti-tank.
Scorpions- Suffer from not having an open Top transport to get into combat. Infiltrate them and hug cover till you can charge. Banshees and scorpions suffer from an inability to get into assault mostly whole. They're great CC units when they get there, but actually getting there is an issue. If he's into allying in DE grab them a transport.....or just use wyches which are cheaper and fulfill the troop req. anyway. It's actually pretty hard to make a case for scorpions, and nearly impossible to make one for Banshees. Banshees are for sitting on a shelf and looking pretty.
Jet Bikes- Small units that sit in reserves and grab objectives. Pretty much how you want to run them. Phenomenal OS late game objective grabbers, very meh at everything else. Make ok body guards for Farseers, see below.
Farseer- I used guide a lot above, and this is why. For my money, best generic HQ in the game. Only reason I haven't switched to DE primary is because i have such a hard time not running two farseers. Being savy about powers allows Eldar to tailor the army w/out switching out a single unit. Should always, always, always, always be on a Jet Bike unless you're running Eldrad. You can run a big squad of jetbikes to give them ablative wounds and score objectives, or just sit back and baby sit the Dark Reapers (whom they'll probably want to guide anyway). I loved running them in a blob squad of guardians w/2x bright lances. Lots of guys to soak wounds, 2 bright lances to shoot enemies, and to ever remove the BL's you had to dedicate shooting to guardians which takes pressure off everything else. Give one of them Shard of Anaris, and now the unit they're hiding in is also fearless. So now you need to kill all 20 guardians to even start wounding my Warlord, GL getting slay the warlord champ. For added fun, put them behind an aegis w/quad gun for additional dakka (also gives your DR's some protection too).
Most importantly, choose the right unit for the right target. Prime example is Jet Bikes: On paper, looks great. Move w/in 12, shoot, assault move back. In reality, they don't have the volume of fire to kill what they shoot (usually) and being close enough to shoot means your close enough to be shot. High volume small arms fire and CC is what kills jetbikes. Long range weapons tend to be low volume fire, and you're likely getting a 4+ jink even if it's AP3 and lower. So you want to force your enemy to use his long range, high str weapons to shoot at piddly OS jet bikes because that takes off the pressure from your WS and WK. It really seems like your friends issues is trying to use a rock to cut paper, because it certainly isn't the codex's fault.
One more thing: Warp Spiders. Can't say enough good things about them. 2 S6 shots that are S7 against vehicles/low Initiative targets, on the most mobile infantry model in the game that also happens to have a 3+ save. And they can Deep Strike. And they have hit and run (one of the best special rules in the game). And 6's to wound ignore armor. First choice to replace the Striking Scorpions should be these guys.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/11/12 21:12:52
It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire
Now he told me, in his next army he wants to play 10 x Dark Reapers, with Illic Nightspear and a Farseer. The whole unit would be at 600+ points.
Your tactic tipps are all helpful and logical. But he argues immediately, that that his WK is always falling in the second turn and that his bikes are too expensive to sit in a corner and wait till last turn and that he must come close to shoot at my forces, cause the range of his units is too short...
I'm considering to take his forces, build myself an army with it and play against him, with his units. He can than use my army and see himself, that it can work.
The best place to hide something precious is in your beard.
If he follows Dash2021's advice, he will win games. Dark Reapers are a good unit, the only reason people poo-poo them is because other choices in the heavy support slot are better.
One thing I should point out:
that that his WK is always falling in the second turn
It's okay if your WK dies on the second turn, so long as he soaked up tons and tons of fire. One of the reasons WK are so good is that there is a high opportunity cost to killing them. I mean, obviously you want to avoid things like Poisoned weapons, but otherwise the WK should be absorbing fire.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/11/12 23:16:17
Grundwels wrote:Now he told me, in his next army he wants to play 10 x Dark Reapers, with Illic Nightspear and a Farseer. The whole unit would be at 600+ points.
Your tactic tipps are all helpful and logical. But he argues immediately, that that his WK is always falling in the second turn and that his bikes are too expensive to sit in a corner and wait till last turn and that he must come close to shoot at my forces, cause the range of his units is too short...
I'm considering to take his forces, build myself an army with it and play against him, with his units. He can than use my army and see himself, that it can work.
Bikes are expensive....if you buy 10 plus a warlock and give them max cannons. 3 for a hair over 50 points is a steal for an OS unit that can move 48" in a turn. Small and mobile is how to run them.
As for Illic....I'm starting to wonder if you're trolling. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, as at least it almost kind of makes a bit of sense in the context of reapers. He's bad, and your friend should feel bad for considering him. 1 4+ to wound shot is awful for a unit that costs more than a WS. This doesn't even start to consider the opportunity cost of eating an HQ slot that could be spent on a more useful unit (like another farseer). If he does actually go through with, then I agree you should take his army and go crushing people with it.
The DRStar does have some merit, just not with Iliac. 2 Farseers, or Farseer and a couple of spirit seers actually makes them fairly resilient. Tack on Perfect timing (they ignore jink anyway, so not 100% mandatory) and guide and these guys eat a unit a turn. Very limited use against MSU armies though, as it'll almost always be massive overkill on the target they fire at.
DanielBeaver wrote: It's okay if your WK dies on the second turn, so long as he soaked up tons and tons of fire. One of the reasons WK are so good is that there is a high opportunity cost to killing them. I mean, obviously you want to avoid things like Poisoned weapons, but otherwise the WK should be absorbing fire.
Agreed on the WK. Soaking up tons of AT fire is one of their selling points. Toughness and Wounds is the reason I ran WL's in 4th, and WK since the new codex. A WK with one wound left puts out just as much dmg as a WK with 6. As Beaver said, massed poison weapons (DE) is the exception, and in this case he's an expensive 2 shot platform that wants nothing to do with CC. Fortunately, DE struggles with resilient armor and WS are maybe the most survivable tank in the game. They also ignore cover, which shreds DE paper planes.
If your friend insists that Eldar are no good and has no interest in taking advice, then buy his stuff and have great Ally for your DE. Eldar are one of, if not the best, solo codices in the game. It is actually incredibly difficult to choose a unit in the Eldar codex that is "bad" (banshees, Iliac, maybe WL's). Instead, your options almost always come down to just good vs. great. And that's the kind of problem you want.
It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire
Dash2021 wrote: As for Illic....I'm starting to wonder if you're trolling.
Illic does give his unit Shrouded, so a group of DR standing in ruins will get a 2+ cover save. An awful lot of points to spend, though - you gotta ask yourself if Shrouded is worth a 65pt premium over an Autarch with an Uldanorethi Long Rifle. Cypher does something similar, and people seem to think he's worth it, so... dunno. One cool thing you can do with him is infiltrate him with the Striking Scorprions, and then combo off their Stealth for a +2 cover save in almost any terrain.
Dash2021 wrote: As for Illic....I'm starting to wonder if you're trolling.
Illic does give his unit Shrouded, so a group of DR standing in ruins will get a 2+ cover save. An awful lot of points to spend, though - you gotta ask yourself if Shrouded is worth a 65pt premium over an Autarch with an Uldanorethi Long Rifle. Cypher does something similar, and people seem to think he's worth it, so... dunno. One cool thing you can do with him is infiltrate him with the Striking Scorprions, and then combo off their Stealth for a +2 cover save in almost any terrain.
As you say, that is a LOT of points for a meh upgrade in survivability. Same points gets you 2 spirit seers who can roll on telepathy for invis/shrouding, or Runes of battle for +1 armor. Wouldn't go for autarch with the rifle either for the same reason Illic almost never makes sense: low rate of fire. Max damage is one model per turn, and only a 1/6 chance of taking out a multi-wound model (Illic). Even then it can be LoS'd to a grunt, and you get a cover save. A kill a turn, even targeting expensive upgrade characters (apothecaries, sgts, special weapons etc.) you're going to struggle for him to make his points back. The cover boost via shrouding and infiltrating a unit that doesn't normally infiltrate is all he's got going for him, and as I said shrouding can be done better elsewhere. I'd give him more credence if his weapon wasn't heavy, as then he could do like you mention and provide reliable shrouding to an infiltrated CC unit on the go. I want my HQ's to be a beat stick capable of killing several times their points value(Autarchs, PL's), a force multiplier (Seers), or be a tank (Archon w/field). Illic doesn't fill any of those roles.
Cypher brings a ton to the table, where Illic doesn't. He doesn't take up an HQ slot, is a marine, gives infiltrate, ATSKNF, shrouded, doesn't snap fire when he moves, gets 2 BS10 plasma shots at full BS on overwatch (good chance to deny a long charge),and Hit and run. All that, for ~1/3 increase in points over Illic. ATSKNF and HnR alone are worth it for CSM armies. Infiltrate is incredible for them as well, as that one squad can be 20 models with a marine statline and various upgrades/weapons (same reason Huron pops up from time to time). Even with all that, I don't see Cypher being used all that often.
It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire
If your friend insists that Eldar are no good and has no interest in taking advice, then buy his stuff and have great Ally for your DE. Eldar are one of, if not the best, solo codices in the game. It is actually incredibly difficult to choose a unit in the Eldar codex that is "bad" (banshees, Iliac, maybe WL's). Instead, your options almost always come down to just good vs. great. And that's the kind of problem you want.
You misunderstand me, I'm not willed to buy his stuff. I just will take his models for one or two games and play with them, with your tipps in mind.
Interesting, that you play the Dire Avengers in small 5 men groups. He always takes 10 men units with Exarch. Thinking of that, he always plays Exarchs in his units? Are they needed? I mean, nearly all Eldar have Ld9. Do he need the Exarchs?
What do you think of that list?
+++ Eldar Test Army (1678pts) +++
Selections:
Eldar:
+ HQ +
* Farseer
Witchblade
* Eldar Jetbike
Twin-linked shuriken catapult
* Windrider Jetbike Squadron
2x Windrider Guardian with Shuriken cannon, 4x Windrider Guardian with twin-linked Shuriken catapult
+ Fast Attack +
* Warp Spiders
6x Warp Spider with Deathspinner
* Warp Spider Exarch
Death Spinner, Powerblades
+ Heavy Support +
* Dark Reapers
* 10x Dark Reaper
10x Reaper launcher (starswarm missiles), 10x Starshot missiles
* Dark Reaper Exarch
Tempest launcher
* War Walker Squadron
* War Walker
2x Scatter laser
* War Walker
2x Scatter laser
* War Walker
2x Scatter laser
* Wraithknight
Two Heavy Wraithcannons
He is playing very aggressiv. Moving his Wave Serpents and the Wraith Knight 12 inches and shooting. The Jetbikes with the Farseer in it, are also moving to the middle of the battlefield. The Dark Reapers are sitting in the back and shooting. He is rarely using cover and arguing, that the short range of his weapons (Dire Avengers, Fire Dragons, Warp Spiders and Jetbikes) forces him to come out of cover, to get in range for his weapons.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/11/13 10:24:16
The best place to hide something precious is in your beard.
He's using his skirmishers (jetbikes) as solid core. Which they arent.
He's fielding gunline-heavy armies, then pushing up towards his opponent.
He's bringing a monster of an MC, and hiding it out of range.
He needs to decide what he wants to do, and build a list to do it. And straight run-at-em aggression isn't how Eldar work.
He needs to not be afraid of his jetbikes, at least, not actually shooting every round. And he needs how to do force concentration.
Mostly, he just needs to plan things out before he deploys. Eldar aren't a force that should win without an elaborate plan (unfortunately 'serpentspam4tehWin' is a functional plan right now, but its good that he doesn't want to do that). Orks and Necrons, among others, can play that way, but Eldar should be shredded that way.
* Windrider Jetbike Squadron
2x Windrider Guardian with Shuriken cannon, 4x Windrider Guardian with twin-linked Shuriken catapult
+ Fast Attack +
* Warp Spiders
6x Warp Spider with Deathspinner
* Warp Spider Exarch
Death Spinner, Powerblades
+ Heavy Support +
* Dark Reapers
* 10x Dark Reaper
10x Reaper launcher (starswarm missiles), 10x Starshot missiles
* Dark Reaper Exarch
Tempest launcher
* War Walker Squadron
* War Walker
2x Scatter laser
* War Walker
2x Scatter laser
* War Walker
2x Scatter laser
* Wraithknight
Two Heavy Wraithcannons
He is playing very aggressiv. Moving his Wave Serpents and the Wraith Knight 12 inches and shooting. The Jetbikes with the Farseer in it, are also moving to the middle of the battlefield. The Dark Reapers are sitting in the back and shooting. He is rarely using cover and arguing, that the short range of his weapons (Dire Avengers, Fire Dragons, Warp Spiders and Jetbikes) forces him to come out of cover, to get in range for his weapons.
Looking at your friends list, a couple things start jumping out. He's spending a lot of wasted points on upgrades that don't make a difference. Exarchs in most squads are bad, you're better off just using more guys. DA exarch adds almost nothing to the squad (twin-linked catapult, woohoo). WSpider exarch does nothing, as you don't actually want WSpiders in combat killing things. Periodically charging a shooty unit to tie them up then HnR out is a good strat sometimes, but having an exarch w/blades isn't going to make that better. Fire Dragon exarch should almost never be taken, especially the way he has him kitted out. Why are you giving a tank hunting unit a flamer?
By and large exarchs don't add a ton to their units anymore. They don't add any LD (all base 9 now), and most of the exarch powers are meh. Fast shot is one of the best abilities, and even then you can usually just buy another aspect warrior for the cost.
The Dark Reaper exarch might be the exception due to his powers. Fast shot (why not get an extra shot) and especially night vision (cheap as chips to prevent +1 cover). Even counting the extra points spent for the exarch upgrade and both exarch powers he's actually cheaper than another DR. However Starshot missiles are way to expensive for what they do. Guide on a large unit of DR's will do effectively the same thing, as you get ~2-3 hits w/S8. Being that you ignore Jink, that's usually plenty. For that cost you could just by a Aegis line, and have a good down payment for a quad gun that your Farseer/IC could use if you choose to put them there.
I'm not a fan of ghost walk matrix on the Wave Serpents, I prefer spending those points elsewhere. That's a personal pref, but I could see having it.
I like my War Walkers in squads of 3 to get more bang for your buck when guided. Crimson Hunter has never really blown my skirt up. AV10 means you have to jink if bolters shoot at you, so now your expensive paper airplane is snapfiring most of the time.
Your list resolves most of those problems. I'd consider just 2 units of jetbikes. With the WS's and DA's you're already rich in OS units, 2 jetbikes floating around to turbo on distant objectives should be plenty. Again, not a fan of the Crimson Hunter. I'd ditch it for another Farseer on a Jetbike w/ Shard of Anaris. Sit them in the backfield with your reapers (minus the starshot missiles, add in the Exarch with fast shot and Night Vision) and throw out Guides/Presciences to the Reapers/WK/WW's.
So @1600pts I'd run something like
Farseer- Jet bike, Shard
Farseer- Jet bike , Spirit stone of Anath'lan (casting prescience at 1 Warp Charge)
5 x DA- Wave Serpent- Scatter lasers, holofields
5 x DA- Wave Serpent- Scatter lasers, holofields
3 x Guardian Jet bikes
3 x Guardian Jetbikes
8 x Warp Spiders
WK
3 x War Walkers -(either 2 x scatter lasers or Scatter laser/Starcannon. Both are good, same points)
6 x Dark Reapers -Exarch with Fast Shot and Night Vision Total ~1600 points.
Fire output: War walkers - 24 (SL) twin linked S6 shots a turn
WK- 2 Twin linked S10 AP2 shots a turn
DRs- 7 Twin linked S8 AP3 shots a turn
WSerpents- 8 twin linked S6 shots a turn + avg. 7 twin linked S7 shots a turn
WSpiders- 16 S6 shots a turn Total: 64 S6 + shots a turn, 48 of which are twin linked.
With what your friend has, you can make an incredibly nasty list. If you can't get it done with 64 high strength shots a turn.....
It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire
It seems like your friend's main downfall is stubbornness. Something isn't working (not using cover because of short ranged weapons) but he keeps using the same brute force tactics an Ork would. He'll need about an extra turn's worth of patience in jumping from cover to cover to close the gap. Shooting, jumping back into cover etc. The units he is using are all fine. He just has a chip on his shoulder about the range and only sees immediately closing the gap as the solution.
I do agree with him on one thing though. I don't like the idea of three-strong Windrider units either. I have six with a Warlock and like them shooting. Just gotta be careful with them and realise their role and fairly low damage output.
Just chiming in on the side of msu jetbike squads. In a tournament setting, I think nothing has won me more games than 3 man jetbike units. Especially Maelstrom style missions.
Larger units are great too, I'm not saying either is better, just that both are viable but for much different tasks. Play-style is the deciding factor.
OP - Your friend may benefit from watching some of Fritz40k or EldarCorsair youtube channels. Most of their battles are from former editions of the game, but really the Eldar playstyle has remained much the same throughout the history of 40k. Very Cagey, and always setting up for the pounce. (I like to equate them to a hunting cat.... hiding in the shadows and tall grass until it is time to pounce)
I don't think his unit choices are bad, other than some polishing and optimizing, but others have covered that before this post. I think it is conforming to the flowing style of Eldar. It's a lot of hiding and timing and pre-measuring to line up the strike, but often you can debilitate your enemy in a single turn if you can orchestrate it properly. (or you can field serpent spam and gunline it...<sigh> )
Perhaps it is time for him to find another army, as it seems like the Eldar just aren't a good fit for the style game your friend is trying to play. There is no shame in that, it is what makes 40k so much fun to me. Every army has a little different feel and play style attached. A great example for me is Tau, I LOVE the Tau aesthetic, and even their fluff... but I HATE how they play on the table. It just does not appeal to me. I enjoy playing against them, and such... but have zero interest in ever playing Tau.
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Gangrel767 wrote: Just chiming in on the side of msu jetbike squads. In a tournament setting, I think nothing has won me more games than 3 man jetbike units. Especially Maelstrom style missions.
Larger units are great too, I'm not saying either is better, just that both are viable but for much different tasks. Play-style is the deciding factor.
OP - Your friend may benefit from watching some of Fritz40k or EldarCorsair youtube channels. Most of their battles are from former editions of the game, but really the Eldar playstyle has remained much the same throughout the history of 40k. Very Cagey, and always setting up for the pounce. (I like to equate them to a hunting cat.... hiding in the shadows and tall grass until it is time to pounce)
I don't think his unit choices are bad, other than some polishing and optimizing, but others have covered that before this post. I think it is conforming to the flowing style of Eldar. It's a lot of hiding and timing and pre-measuring to line up the strike, but often you can debilitate your enemy in a single turn if you can orchestrate it properly. (or you can field serpent spam and gunline it...<sigh> )
Perhaps it is time for him to find another army, as it seems like the Eldar just aren't a good fit for the style game your friend is trying to play. There is no shame in that, it is what makes 40k so much fun to me. Every army has a little different feel and play style attached. A great example for me is Tau, I LOVE the Tau aesthetic, and even their fluff... but I HATE how they play on the table. It just does not appeal to me. I enjoy playing against them, and such... but have zero interest in ever playing Tau.
^^This. I'm relatively certain that WS spam is the most competitive build Eldar have available at the moment. It's strong, durable and versatile. But I'd never want to play it. I like a strong, aggressive, mobile list that requires me to apply the right tool in the right way with large implications for poor target priority choices. I think Gangrel is right, and the most important thing your friend needs to do is figure out how he wants to play 40k, and start from there.
It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire
I'll be honest I used to be like your friend! I had a really hard time in 5th edition when I got back into them hobby after 15 years out. I'd really struggle against my friends IG gun line, didn't do so bad against GK or BA, but then one of my opponents went BA/SW combined, which threw up some interesting problems (lots of drop pods). I would bitch that my only transport cost over 115pts, when they could buy one that could deep strike for 35pts
WS spam is the king of the lists at the moment, but I find it boring to play. I only have two WS models in my collection (I have proxied my fire prism and falcon for the one game I took 4 WS), but his lists should be doing better than you state.
I think it's already been mentioned but Warp Spiders are pretty awesome at the moment and fun to play with. War Walkers are still my go to dakka unit, as already mentioned, guide them and they will shred units, just through sheer amount of fire power.
I used to take Exarch's in all my squads, but after doing a bit of reading, I don't really take them now. For the cost of upgrading a model and giving it a power, you can usually take 2 extra guys. Illic is a waste of points 9 times out of ten, especially if your friend is having a hard time, leave him alone until you're happy with the army and want to try some less effective but fun combinations out.
I honestly think the best thing your friend can do is get himself online, watch some videos and read some forums. I really learned some useful things that I had overlooked. Cue the laughing, but I wasn't even using my serpent shield against light vehicles, I felt such a dick when I started reading about them shredding light vehicles like IG walkers or your DE transports for example. 2-7 ST7 shots against AV10 with ignore cover and a 60" is nothing to be sniffed at.
D-scythes are so much fun too, either in a WS or at back protecting troops from incoming drop pods. They can take out a whole 10 man tac squad and the drop pod they arrived in (with some lucky rolls)
Grundwels wrote: Now he told me, in his next army he wants to play 10 x Dark Reapers, with Illic Nightspear and a Farseer. The whole unit would be at 600+ points.
Your tactic tipps are all helpful and logical. But he argues immediately, that that his WK is always falling in the second turn and that his bikes are too expensive to sit in a corner and wait till last turn and that he must come close to shoot at my forces, cause the range of his units is too short...
I'm considering to take his forces, build myself an army with it and play against him, with his units. He can than use my army and see himself, that it can work.
How bad is he?
He needs to learn to play his units right instead of just shoving all of them toward your units and hoping to win. Thats probably the worst tactics you could use.
5/6 games, OBJECTIVES (not killing) wins you the game. Focus on scoring your objectives (ie: with jet bikes) and then pressure them with wraith knights.
If hes taking rangers, illic, anything with the scatter laser/bright lance combo, or any of the phoenix lords, he needs to change his list.
You must be a very gentle person, which I respect. If I had friend like that I would get a little bit pissed at how stubborn he is, and how blatantly wrong he is.
I do drugs.
Mostly Plastic Crack, but I do dabble in Cardboard Cocaine.
6000pts