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Ok so I know this has been hashed out before, but I think it's worth another look.

Personally, I've gone in circles, thinking one or the other was the 'best', and I've come to the point where I just can't decide for sure. So let's take a look at the pro's and con's of each and hopefully have ourselves a discussion that will be useful and informative to us all.

Nurgle

Pros:
Can take the BaleSword for Instant Death
2+ Jink Save
Automatically knows Stream of Corruption (Poison 4+, AP3 Template)

Cons:
Can never Run or Sweep due to SnP

Tzeentch

Pros:
Can take Staff for S8, possibly S10 with Iron Arm
Re Roll 1s with 3+ save is rather durable
Automatically knows Flickering Fire (2D6 S5 AP4)
Characters that unlock Tzeentch in the Heavy Slot are also FMC

Cons:
Possible self inflicted wounds from exploding things in combat

Slaanesh

Pros:
Lash with Iron Arm. 'Nuff Said.
Fleet, to help with long charges
Automatically knows Lash of Slaanesh (S6 Rending Beam)

Cons:
Must take KoS to unlock as Heavy slot (less durable than GUO or LoC)
Pretty much have to take Lash as one Greater Reward to validate being Slaanesh whereas BaleSword and Staff seem more situational for Nurgle and Tzeentch respectively.

Khorne

Erm. . .sorry, Khorne, Just wait for the next codex, ok?

Other ideas ideas I'd like to discuss are thus: Which type of Daemon Prince matches up best against which armies? Which type of Daemon Prince do you see working best in a Flying Circus? Do you mix and match (to whatever extent possible, usually 3-4 of one flavor and one of another)? Which one is the most versatile? Which type of Daemon Prince do you see working better in a more hybrid list, such as including daemon heralds and cav, or allying with CSM (or others)?

Thanks for your consideration, now get to scheming!

My Preferred Daemon Prince :

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch
2 Greater Gifts
1 Lesser
Wings

Staff, then depending on what you roll up for buffs in the Greater Gifts chart, go with 1 dice in summoning and the rest in either Biomancy or Telepathy.

Ah I forgot that Tzeentch princes get their weapon of choice from the Lesser Reward table. That would definitely have to be a plus in my eyes as they all bank on greater rewards for survivability.
So do you leave the armor at home and hope to roll for it? That seems pretty risky, especially when being Tzeentchy only makes having the armor save better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
EDIT: Added poll

I like Nurgle, as 2+ jink is godly (I play Tyranids a lot so know how good it is ). I've also no problem with being slow and purposeful when it already moves 12 inches and practically gobbles units up in CC (at least I find anyway )

It would depend on the list though, one of my friends likes 2+ re-rollable and so would go Tzeentch, whereas my other friend likes speed so goes with Slaanesh (S9 Lash while Swooping...yarp).

Khorne. Beatstick simplicity.

Yeah I feel like Nurgle would be the hands down winner against anything but Tau and Eldar. But what with Tau and Eldar both being big deals in just about every meta, I've been trying to explore the options more thoroughly. As I've seen pointed out elsewhere, alot of the common skyfire weapons are high AP (4 or greater). Quad guns, Riptide with HBC and VT, Broadsides, Serpent Shields (frequently fill AA role for 'Dar) Assault Cannons and Skyhammer Missiles on Storm Talons, Tesla etc. etc. I'm sure i'm missing some, but you get the idea. Tzeentch with 3+ armor does better against most of that that Nurgle without cover. Although a lot of that doesn't necessarily ignore cover. AH! See what I mean, I'm talking myself in circles. Just the fact that the Tzeentchy brethren seem to do better against Tau and Eldar kinda gives them the edge in a TAC list for me.

Any and all experiences other players have had would be great to hear.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jimsolo wrote:
Khorne. Beatstick simplicity.

Ha they do have the merit of being cheaper. You could probably bring 5 FMCs in an all khorne list and still have room for some hounds.

Now if we were talking Daemon LORDS. . . well you can bet Anngg'rath would have my vote.

Forgive my ignorance, I've the codex and some models, but I've yet to field a chaos army with this codex, how does the Nurgle prince get a 2+ jink save ?

Flying Monstrous Creatures have Jink, allows you to choose to get a 4+ cover save. Daemons of Nurgle are Shrouded (2+ to cover saves). Voila, 2+ cover save.

 astro_nomicon wrote:
Flying Monstrous Creatures have Jink, allows you to choose to get a 4+ cover save. Daemons of Nurgle are Shrouded (2+ to cover saves). Voila, 2+ cover save.

Thanks. I knew they had Shrouded, but I was unaware they could jink.

Yeah you can jink whether you are in Gliding OR Swooping mode. Don't let any one tell you otherwise!

Khorne with the Black Mace artifact for melee devastation

Actually someone should mention that Daemon Princes from the Black Legion and Crimson Slaughter do get some interesting wargear choices.

I think one from the Crimson Slaughter gives them Rage and Furious charge.

One from Black Legion gives Adamantium Will and Eternal Warrior.

Hm guaranteed EW is pretty cool. Just seems hard to pass up on the Greater Rewards for Chaos Daemons.

Nurgle, Armour, Wings, ML3, 2 Greater, 1 Lesser. Expensive, but very durable and likely to crush most things in combat thanks to the balesword. Also having three rolls on biomancy to fish for Iron Arm and Endurance is nice. Nothing like a S9, T8, 4+ FNP, EW DP crashing into things. Bonus points if you luck out and get +1W and IWND from the greater rewards and Adamantium Will from the lesser.

Hollismason wrote:Actually someone should mention that Daemon Princes from the Black Legion and Crimson Slaughter do get some interesting wargear choices.

I think one from the Crimson Slaughter gives them Rage and Furious charge.

One from Black Legion gives Adamantium Will and Eternal Warrior.

astro_nomicon wrote:Hm guaranteed EW is pretty cool. Just seems hard to pass up on the Greater Rewards for Chaos Daemons.

I think the EW artifact explicitly forbids princes from taking it, never mind the bit about them being immortal. Apparently T5 4W 3+/5++ is so durable it needs special attention to keep from getting out of hand. Yah, I'm pretty bitter about princes and EW....

Ha yeah but 2+/3++/5+FNP that can join a retinue? He's gonna need some insurance. Better give him EW for 15 pts.

Why is “Dead” not an option?

Filthy heretics…

I’ve had some bad experiences with both Nurgle and Tzeench DPs across the table. I’m sure I’ve faced the others at some point, but they didn’t make much of an impact. YMMV.

Ha I knew that would come up eventually.

Mindless Loyalist. . .open your eyes!!

 astro_nomicon wrote:
Ha I knew that would come up eventually.

Mindless Loyalist. . .open your eyes!!

I have my eyes open, Nurgle demons are the only ones I can target by smell alone!

I was trying to add something constructive, besides just the obvious joke, even as a loyalist. Nurgle just takes an irritatingly large amount of fire to kill, and Tzeench just contributes to the reaming I take in the psychic phase. The other two are just giant killy things in my book, and while I need to keep an eye on them, I can deal with them the same as any other monstrous thing. It might just be the way I’ve seen the local guys play them, but that’s my view on the topic.

Besides the view through the scope..
Dakka Dakka...

No offense meant. . .we're completely used to being called filthy heretics, just wanted to dish a little back to you emprah worshiping types.

Thanks for your take from the other side of the table, as that is always useful as well.

6th ed: Tzeentch

7th ed: Nurgle

Ima second the Dead kind.

But really if i wanted to cheese out and have no friends, Nurgle with wings.

If i wanna get saucey, DOOOOOOOOMRIDDEERRR!!!!!!

because he is a DP

Surprised I haven't seen much love for Be'lakor on this one. Mastery Lv3 with guaranteed Invisibility, Armourbane and Fleshbane Ap2 weapon, Flying, generates Warp Charges by scaring enemy units, he's probably amongst the best ones you can go for.

 Valkyrie wrote:
Surprised I haven't seen much love for Be'lakor on this one. Mastery Lv3 with guaranteed Invisibility, Armourbane and Fleshbane Ap2 weapon, Flying, generates Warp Charges by scaring enemy units, he's probably amongst the best ones you can go for.

I don't think anyone really thinks of him as a daemon prince. Just like no one refers to abbadon as a terminator chaos lord.

 Valkyrie wrote:
Surprised I haven't seen much love for Be'lakor on this one. Mastery Lv3 with guaranteed Invisibility, Armourbane and Fleshbane Ap2 weapon, Flying, generates Warp Charges by scaring enemy units, he's probably amongst the best ones you can go for.

Be'lakor is an absolute beast. However, the poll asks for peoples' favourite chaos alignment, which kind of excludes him.

I do think that Tzeentch is by far the best one.

First of all, you didn't consider a very important Pro of Tzeentch, that is the fact that you can take a DP as a Heavy choice with Fateweaver alone. No need for a GUO. Yes, a GUO is a solid choice, but it forces you to have two almost auto-includes (Fateweaver and GUO) and also lacks the mobility of a DP, which in a Flying Circus is really really important.

Nurgle's 2+ cover is good, but it's ignored by Eldar, Imperial Guard (orders + cheap psykers) and Tau... which accidentally are the army whose shooting troubles you most.
Against tougher armies (Orks and SWs above all) it offers you no protection in close combat.

Finally you are completely dependant on Iron Arm AND Endurance. Without Iron Arm you are just a S6 guy, you will wound most thing that matters on 4s (rerollable for T5 or less), while Tzeentch will wound anything bar WraithKnights or psykers with Iron Arm on 2s.
You'll just glance vehicles with AV12 on 6s, while Tzeentch can have penetrating hits on everything except Land Raiders.
Additionally, even if you get Iron Arm, you have no chance of reaching S10, which helps a lot when you have to take down Knights and Land Raiders

Without Endurance you are just a T5 W4 guy with a 5+ invulnerable save. That is almost exactly the profile of 4 Plague Marines (ignoring ID weapons).... a part the fact that they cost less than one third of your daemon prince (and are already quite expensive by themselves)...

Of course, you can improve your invulnerable saves as you usually do with Tzeentch Princes, but this has a couple of cons:
- It kind of reduces the usefulness of Shrouded
- You still cannot reroll 1s. Not much of a bonus for 5++, but with 3++ it's already a pretty good boost.

Nurgle for CC bashing, Tzeench for daemon factory

I always see threads like this where as people are saying that Ignores Cover and any army that has it, pretty much wiped Daemon Princes of Nurgle, or for that matter any model with Cover Saves mechanics, right off the board. But I honestly DO believe that people are forgetting the #1 rule about 40k as a tabletop game. Terrain Terrain Terrain. If you don't have enough of it, your games will stink and all you're doing is walking head first into a woodchipper.

The board is the #1 thing you have to fill out before you even play a game. 5 Terrain pieces throughout the entire board basically guarantees whoever has more Dakka, wins out. I play Tau, I play Eldar, I also play CSM + Daemons. When we play, I make SURE the board is riddled with LoS blocking terrain for both me and my opponents benefit. This means there are more than 7-8 large pieces of LoS blocking terrain on the battlefield per GW brand 4x4 game board piece. There can be Ruins, Trees, Area terrain such as rivers and small rocks + Mountains. We dont sit there turn one and blast each other because we have direct line of sight to everything from our opponents lists right from the get go. Sure you might move 12" and see a unit, but you actually have to present yourself as a target as well.

I have run my Daemon Princes as both Nurgle and Tzeentch. I run Tzeentch as my main Daemon Factory List summoning Hounds and Seekers when needed while trying to maintain a safe distance from my enemies through mountains and LoS blocking Ruins. With Nurgle I do the same, however I am slowly trying to get into charge range with them. The table on which you play dictates the game.

 GoliothOnline wrote:
I always see threads like this where as people are saying that Ignores Cover and any army that has it, pretty much wiped Daemon Princes of Nurgle, or for that matter any model with Cover Saves mechanics, right off the board. But I honestly DO believe that people are forgetting the #1 rule about 40k as a tabletop game. Terrain Terrain Terrain. If you don't have enough of it, your games will stink and all you're doing is walking head first into a woodchipper.

You must consider tournaments, where you do not have control over it

Ya know, you can always fly too.

Especially against those hard hitting ignore cover armies to negate the effects if you didnt get iron arm or whatever.