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I've been out the loop a bit and noticed they're back in their own codex. I've had a Vindicaire Assassin for about 16yrs and never actually used him in game. I'm now running Eldar, but saw in another thread that someone had been recommended to take him instead of Illic (they wanted a sniper themed army).

How does he fit into the army list and who can take them?

Thanks

They sneak in.

Sorry it is a useless reply but I couldn't help myself.

Separate detachment

So they're an allied attachment that doesn't require a HQ?

Yes, they have their own detachment type that consists of a single Elite slot, into which you put the assassin of your choice. As far as the allies matrix is concerned, they count as Imperial forces, so I think they're AoC with Eldar.

No no. An Allied Detachment is a separate thing. Proper noun and all that. It forms an Assassin Detachment that is by itself. Remember, in 7th there is no limit to the Detachments or Formations an army is allowed. But in the sense of the words, it is a separate detachment that is allied to your primary.

I run a Vindicare in an Eldar list as well, alongside Illic and Pathfinders. Since the Assassin has Lone Operative and can't join a squad anyway, the negative factors of whatever allied level they have together is pretty much redundant and doesn't really affect gameplay.

Sniped with different wording. How Vindicare of you...

Excellent thanks

I might give him a run out, just for something different to try. I know he only gets one shot per turn, but if I've read things right, he gets precision shots and ignores cover every time he fires.

The way dead shot is worded as caused many an argument... be sure to read it and talk with your opponent

Clearly love can bloom in this thread XD (due to Eldar loving Vindicares)

So much groanworthy punning in this thread. I love it!

I enjoy using a Culexus with my tau. after all, it's not like I'm going to be using those warp charges for anything else.

OTOH, an eversor in my lines makes a great reason to avoid combat now, too.

 Massaen wrote:
The way dead shot is worded as caused many an argument... be sure to read it and talk with your opponent

It seems pretty cut and dry to me, what is the arguement?

Essentially, its about the exact working.

Deadshot says

"all successful to hit rolls made by a vindicare assassin, excluding snap shots, have the precision shots special rule"

Precision Shots (the special rule) says

"if a model with this special rule rolls a 6 to hit with a shooting weapon, that shot is a precision shot. Wounds from a precision shot are allocated against a model (or models) of your choice in the target unit, as long as it is in range and LOS of the firer, rather than following the normal rules for wound allocation"

It then goes on to say that it does not work with snap shots and you can still look out sir.

Compare that to Illic Nightspears rule - sharp shot.

Shots fired by models with this special rule (excluding snap shots) are always precision shots.

So a vindicare gains the special rule Precision shots (which tells us on a 6 we can allocateusing a precision shot) while Illic says all hit shots are precision shots (the effect of the special rule)

A vindicare gets the rule, Illic get the effect.

See the difference?

I wont argue intent as to me - it obvious you SHOULD be allocating exactly like Illic but the way its written he does not.

Deadshot doesn't says he has the Precision shot special rule, it says all his hits have precision shots. Its only is precision shots on a 6 if the model has the special rule which the Vindicare does not.

 CrownAxe wrote:
Deadshot doesn't says he has the Precision shot special rule, it says all his hits have precision shots. Its only is precision shots on a 6 if the model has the special rule which the Vindicare does not.

Afraid you are wrong there. I quoted it word for word.

 Massaen wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
Deadshot doesn't says he has the Precision shot special rule, it says all his hits have precision shots. Its only is precision shots on a 6 if the model has the special rule which the Vindicare does not.

Afraid you are wrong there. I quoted it word for word.

I was going off your quote

"if a model with this special rule rolls a 6 to hit with a shooting weapon, that shot is a precision shot..."

Vindicare doesn't have the Precision shot special rule, his hits do, so the above doesn't apply.

Deadshot says that all successful hits have the precision shots special rule.

The special rule then tells us that to get a precision shot we need a 6 to hit (the precision shot being the result of the precision shots special rule)

Thus - roll to hit with vindicare BS. If hit - that hit has the precision shots special rule. The rule tells us that hit rolls of a 6 are precision shots. If your hit roll is a 6, then you allocate. If not - its a normal hit and normal allocation applies.

At no point does it say all his hits are precision shots. It says they have the special rule.

 Massaen wrote:
The special rule then tells us that to get a precision shot we need a 6 to hit (the precision shot being the result of the precision shots special rule)

No it says a model with precision shot needs a 6 to hit. Vindicares isn't a model with the precision shot rule (it has the deadshot rule) so that part doesn't apply.

The reference to model is not relevant.

Deadshot says

"all successful to hit rolls made by a vindicare assassin, excluding snap shots, have the precision shots special rule"

That's it.

When you reference the special rule (as I have provided before) you see that you need a 6 to hit.

Had it said (like Illics rule) all hits are precision shots then it would be fine. But it does not - it says they have the special rule.

Yes, the vindicare has deadshot and not precision shots. How is that relevant? The deadshot rule tells us what rules to apply and by default, he has the special rule precision shots, on the proviso that he scores a hit.

Regardless, I agree the RAI is clear. I simply wanted to point out the potential argument that can play out (both here, on other forums and in person).

Well the arguement is clear to me now.

Wow, that's pretty poorly worded.

The IG order "Take Aim!" applies precision shot "when resolving this shooting attack", while the Vindicare apparently applies it "(on) all successful to hit rolls".

It makes me think the ordered squad needs 6s to hit and the Vindicare does not. That's worth a FAQ from Games Workshop, though.

I'd have taken it as.... if he moves and fires rifle or shoots at a flyer (e.g. forced snap shots), then he doesn't get precision shot. All other hits will be precision shots.

I can see the potential for argument though, so will be running through it with gaming group if I decide to use him

question on the turbo-penetrator round for the vindicare if anyone has an idea

when he's shooting at non-vehicle units after he makes a successful hit you then roll a D3 to resolve how many wounds that target will receive. Does this mean that he can kill more than one model in a unit?

No, he does D3 wounds to the model he hit, so it's more used for killing MCs or characters.