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So I'm sure there is a link to the discussion but if not, what is a better load out for space marine assault terminators. Do you go all thunder hammer and shields or stick with claws? Mix it up? I'd like to put Lysander with them at some point to. I assume it matters which army you face but what's pro and con. Haven't fielded yet so need to know before I get the models/play them. Thanks.

Hammers are the superior choice, by virtue of their 3++ save. However, always pick your squads with regards to what else is in your army.

For example: I run DW terminator squads with 4 hammers, and 1 guy with a heavy weapon and chain fist. Their job is to match the opponent's heavy hitters in cc. The 3++ save, str 8 and concussive weapons help them achieve this.
They are transported by an LRC, which is good at taking out light/medium infantry. Because the tank covers the anti infantry role, the terminators do not have to take lightning claws, and should instead be focusing on the big stuff like MCs and knights. Lightning claws don't help vs stuff like this.

I like to mix some claws into my hammers. 2:3 ratio. A few reasons:

One, It’s WYSWYG what I own
Two, With directional wounds, you can keep the few SSs you have in the way of fire, and probably are going to be spending some of the game in the LR anyway.
Three, Sometimes you are going to be going after “soft” targets (MEQ or less) and the extra attacks, as well as the re-rolling those wounds, can bump up your kill count.
Four, How many hammer hits do you need to get the job done? Often, just a few. This leaves space is the squad loadout for the claws. Plus it saves points.

 Nevelon wrote:
I like to mix some claws into my hammers. 2:3 ratio. A few reasons:

One, It’s WYSWYG what I own
Two, With directional wounds, you can keep the few SSs you have in the way of fire, and probably are going to be spending some of the game in the LR anyway.
Three, Sometimes you are going to be going after “soft” targets (MEQ or less) and the extra attacks, as well as the re-rolling those wounds, can bump up your kill count.
Four, How many hammer hits do you need to get the job done? Often, just a few. This leaves space is the squad loadout for the claws. Plus it saves points.

I do the same. Sergeant is always with LCs, IMO keeping I4 in challenges is better than a 3++ on a 1 wound model.

Th/SS all the way. A larger unit is almost unstoppable.

All TH/SS, for the 3++. Survivability is key. And in any case, Lightning Claw termies only out-DPS against T4 and below targets - as soon as you're fighting T5 or greater, the TH is a better weapon (even when taking into account the points increase).

 DanielBeaver wrote:
All TH/SS, for the 3++. Survivability is key. And in any case, Lightning Claw termies only out-DPS against T4 and below targets - as soon as you're fighting T5 or greater, the TH is a better weapon (even when taking into account the points increase).

IMHO there is enough T4 or less stuff out there to justify the claws. What are you going up against? What else is in your list? For me, the small reduction in survivability is worth the enhanced performance against soft targets. That’s my TAC, middle of the road, jack of all traits, Ultramarine speaking. Obviously playstyles differ. If you are going against non-AP2 foes, the TH/SS is just as durable as a 2xLC (or tactical for that mater) terminator. And the guys trying to kill you with massed small arms are the kind that are going to worry more about the claws.

There's a lot of ranged AP2 in my meta, so that 3++ is more valuable to me than the potential DPS increase against enemy infantry. Even if I'm fighting against horde armies, I would rather my terminators be mixing it up with Meganobz or MCs, where the hammer and SS are ideal.

 DanielBeaver wrote:
There's a lot of ranged AP2 in my meta, so that 3++ is more valuable to me than the potential DPS increase against enemy infantry. Even if I'm fighting against horde armies, I would rather my terminators be mixing it up with Meganobz or MCs, where the hammer and SS are ideal.

My meta is a bit more casual. Last time I took my assault terminators for an outing (doubles tournament), they were up against necrons/DE , guard/demon, and DA/IH/IK. There were times in every game I was glad for the mix. YMMV.

If you have a very competitive meta, where AP2 pie plates are being tossed around everywhere, the TH/SS are probably the way to go. But if you have the wiggle room, sometimes it’s nice to have the flex. Knowing what’s likely to show up across the table is more useful then generic internet advice.

But for the most part, if you want to play aggressively and get the most out of your army, listen to people more competitive then me.

Hammers or nothing. The only exception to that being the red brethren in Carcharodons lists. Most SM lists have plenty of anti infantry, assault termies should be thrown at the big scary stuff.

I've never been bummed when I take 1 or 2 claws. I find them shredding something every game. Aside from the odd claws or heavy weapon, stick with TH/SS.

I support the mixed unit approach. A capable opponent can swarm you with a tarpit unit that could actually drown you with attacks before you can swing. Throw in some LC Termies and they will thin the horde and reduce the saves you need to make.

As far as surviving AP1-2 weapons, placement is key. Shields in front, claws in back.

This image does some justice to the concept. Shooting and melee wounds will be allocated to the Shields, giving you the 3++ advantage while keeping your "fragile" claws safe.

To anyone who says they will crumble easily when the Shields die, well sure. In this picture, that will take on average 15 AP2 wounds before a Claw does. Don't know many armies that can pump that many in one shooting or assault phase.

The problem is that it is the opponent who decides which of his units' shooting attacks are resolved first.

Shields in front will just mean that an opponent will shoot off his small arms first, followed by plasma second.

Personally I put my sergeant at the front of the squad, and try to use 'look out sir' to spread the correct weapon wounds to the right targets.

That said, any shooting at your terminators is a bad thing. The are actually the opposite of the fluff, and are very vulnerable for their points.

I use my landraiders to attempt to block LoS as much as I can. I favour a pure TH/SS approach, as the landraiders will allow the terminators to better pick their targets, and make sure that they are not tarpitted.

Hopefully I can get some cheap ones on Ebay and maybe run both load outs. It seems my meta is Eldar, CSM, and Ty

There are always magnets if you want to try swapping around.

I would just give them lightning claws and Mark of Slaanesh to ensure they are hitting first. That way, you have fewer wounds to save against.

Oh, wait.... loyalists. never mind