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Greetings all just wondering what the popular opinion is on allowing your opponent to field a big mek in mega armour with a shock attack gun? Voice your opinion please!

Edit- and since I posted this in the wrong forum I'll add a tactics portion.. so if you did allow this or want to try it how would you implement the big guy?







Also wrong forum mods please move

I don't think you can have both. If you replace your slugga with a SAG, then you don't have slugga and choppa with which you replace with Mega Armor. And if you replace your slugga and choppa with mega armor, then you don't have a slugga with which to replace with a SAG.

If you could make this - he's probably best with big gunz or lootas in a wagon giving them ability to move + shoot at full bs.

Ya I'm thinking lootas or flash gitz would be sweet.

DB- it appears your right but what a shame and missed opportunity IMO. In todays state of the game I'm for the idea personally, in the same way that some people enjoy unbound. In the past gw has contradicted wargear selection method enough that I could see an argument for allowing such a selection.

Any other opinions out there?

Try the Big Mek SAG with da lucky stick for extra fun times.

A SAG on a warbike is fun too.

Big mek on warbike with sag.

Big meks with SAG have always been my personal favorite. I've been field 1-2 of them in almost every game. I like the gitfinda upgrade with them. Now if you are looking for something super fun to do with them, put one in a squad of big gunz. Big mek gets a toughness bonus. Personally when I do that I normally take some type of fortification. Sky-shield is not a bad option as it provides an invul save to the unit. Vengence weapon batteries are not a bad option either as you can buy barricades for them and use it to create a strong point for the big gunz and it provides a cover saves.

Unfortunatly you can't take the SAG with Mega Armour, only the KFF or Telyporta Blasta. Would have been sweet, but GW saves the cheese for other arnies...

Who needs a git finda when you have dls for rerolls yay

CYBORK wrote:
Who needs a git finda when you have dls for rerolls yay

Wait...does that actually work? If so, then that would actually be pretty legit.

DLS on SAG Mek seems to be a large point heap invested in a very unreliable subject.

 flaming tadpole wrote:

CYBORK wrote:
Who needs a git finda when you have dls for rerolls yay

Wait...does that actually work? If so, then that would actually be pretty legit.

Yep you can take da lucky Stikk, but for what the da lucky stikk is really designed for is to go with a support HQ. (Weird boy, pain boy, big mek with KFF) Basically buying him a power klaw just to re-roll the scatter dye. I believe you could use an Aegis Defense line with an ammo dump to achieve the same re-roll, plus what ever unit he is with. Or just simply buy ammo runts. you are only going to need 5 of them.

Why not just get ammo runts - they're doing the same for much cheaper.

And thus the reason for this topic.. mega mek- bp, killsaw, sag, DLS.

Truth is I ran this guy for one game recently and I loved it. Then I found out I had overlooked that it was not valid. My opponent didn't mind so kudos for that.

Now I'm not primarily an ork player, I play against them very often and less often I will pilot the army so my bad. Anyway I would really like to see GW or even my local group just adopt this a viable option. Because its cool.

Glitcha wrote:

 flaming tadpole wrote:

CYBORK wrote:
Who needs a git finda when you have dls for rerolls yay

Wait...does that actually work? If so, then that would actually be pretty legit.

Yep you can take da lucky Stikk, but for what the da lucky stikk is really designed for is to go with a support HQ. (Weird boy, pain boy, big mek with KFF) Basically buying him a power klaw just to re-roll the scatter dye. I believe you could use an Aegis Defense line with an ammo dump to achieve the same re-roll, plus what ever unit he is with. Or just simply buy ammo runts. you are only going to need 5 of them.

DLS is actually designed solely for the Warboss and Big Mek. Mostly the Warboss. Weirdboyz and Painboyz do not have access to the Gifts of Gork and Mork, so unfortunately, they cannot take DLS even if they wanted to. I don't think it would have much use on either of them anyway. You wouldn't be able to reroll warp dice, you couldn't reroll FNP, so it's pretty much useless. You don't really want either HQ in CC to make use of the rerolls on melee either. Sooo...better give it to the two major generic HQs who can put it to best use. (Warboss/Big Mek)

Using it on a SAG Mek would be interesting...but how would that work? Do you get to reroll the dice or just the scatter? Or all of them? Seems like it could be fun. And while expensive, you only get a few Ammo Runts while the Stikk lasts forever (Or until you die) so it's a heavier investment, but has a better payout. Theoretically of course.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

dominuschao wrote:
And thus the reason for this topic.. mega mek- bp, killsaw, sag, DLS.

Truth is I ran this guy for one game recently and I loved it. Then I found out I had overlooked that it was not valid. My opponent didn't mind so kudos for that.

Now I'm not primarily an ork player, I play against them very often and less often I will pilot the army so my bad. Anyway I would really like to see GW or even my local group just adopt this a viable option. Because its cool.

I'd say drop the Killsaw. If you're going SAG, there should be no reason at all the Mek should be in CC. Ever. He should be sitting on the back lines with some Big Gunz. That's why the Mega Armor is typically useless. The gun has a 48 inch range. You have literally NO reason to ever move, so Slow and Purposeful is not helpful (even if it was a legal option). And sadly, even using the extra points for Gitfinda won't work. At least I don't believe. I don't think Ordinance gets a BS reduction. I could be wrong in that though.

Well I did draw the list up on short order..

That said DLS worked great. He was embarked on a BW and later went solo to cause trouble. The rerolls to hit and wound doesn't stipulate CC only so allows twin linking of the shot (both scatter and 2d6 must be rerolled if you choose to reroll) and it allows rerolls to wound which was very useful.

The gitfinda and SnP is because the SAG is a heavy weapon so it does benefit from BS3 while on the move (or would if legal.. apply the same to a bike mek with SAG).

Anyway thats my take.

dominuschao wrote:
Well I did draw the list up on short order..

That said DLS worked great. He was embarked on a BW and later went solo to cause trouble. The rerolls to hit and wound doesn't stipulate CC only so allows twin linking of the shot (both scatter and 2d6 must be rerolled if you choose to reroll) and it allows rerolls to wound which was very useful.

The gitfinda and SnP is because the SAG is a heavy weapon so it does benefit from BS3 while on the move (or would if legal.. apply the same to a bike mek with SAG).

Anyway thats my take.

It's considered Ordinance though, and I don't think Ordinance gets a reduced scatter, which is why a lot of us seemed to be pretty bummed about using the Gitfinda to give us BS3. Either that or it was that Gitfinda doesn't work with Slow and Purposeful. I know there was some odd interaction between this combo. Regardless, Mega Armor and SAG can't be comboed.

Though, not to sound rude, I find putting the SAG in the Battle Wagon is a huge point sink and doesn't really accomplish the SAG's job any better than if it sat behind a T7 gunline instead of an open topped, easily exploded vehicle :s Just my take on it though. I tend to have him sitting behind with the Grots to unleash the Warp upon my foes from the safety of my deployment zone. Though I did just buy another SAG to try to convert him to a biker SAG just for the hell of it so he can outflank with some Kopters for some tank hunting hilarity.

It's considered Ordinance though, and I don't think Ordinance gets a reduced scatter, which is why a lot of us seemed to be pretty bummed about using the Gitfinda to give us BS3. Either that or it was that Gitfinda doesn't work with Slow and Purposeful. I know there was some odd interaction between this combo. Regardless, Mega Armor and SAG can't be comboed.

You can TL ordnance like anything else, check it out (Ordnance pg 41, SNP pg 171, TL pg 174). And right I get that, although the exact same situation comes up on a warbike, just a different way of conferring relentless/SNP. That I've seen, works great and its actually where the idea for the MA came from.

Though, not to sound rude, I find putting the SAG in the Battle Wagon is a huge point sink and doesn't really accomplish the SAG's job any better than if it sat behind a T7 gunline instead of an open topped, easily exploded vehicle :s Just my take on it though. I tend to have him sitting behind with the Grots to unleash the Warp upon my foes from the safety of my deployment zone. Though I did just buy another SAG to try to convert him to a biker SAG just for the hell of it so he can outflank with some Kopters for some tank hunting hilarity.

No offense taken man, again I'm not primarily an ork player but I do get the urge to WAAAAGH! every now and again
The SAG + big gunz is something I had briefly considered, probably the most durable/cheapest approach. I was thinking bm- sag, gitfinda, runts + 1 lobba + extra gretchin. Is that how you do it? I also like the koptas idea.

The build I had was tailored to the meta/match which is heavy on mech especially SH walkers. Having lg blast ordinance ap2 and a chance at ranged D plus 5 S9 rerollable armourbane on one dude is what got the idea going but somewhere I missed the weapon swap nuance.

dominuschao wrote:

It's considered Ordinance though, and I don't think Ordinance gets a reduced scatter, which is why a lot of us seemed to be pretty bummed about using the Gitfinda to give us BS3. Either that or it was that Gitfinda doesn't work with Slow and Purposeful. I know there was some odd interaction between this combo. Regardless, Mega Armor and SAG can't be comboed.

You can TL ordnance like anything else, check it out (Ordnance pg 41, SNP pg 171, TL pg 174). And right I get that, although the exact same situation comes up on a warbike, just a different way of conferring relentless/SNP. That I've seen, works great and its actually where the idea for the MA came from.

Though, not to sound rude, I find putting the SAG in the Battle Wagon is a huge point sink and doesn't really accomplish the SAG's job any better than if it sat behind a T7 gunline instead of an open topped, easily exploded vehicle :s Just my take on it though. I tend to have him sitting behind with the Grots to unleash the Warp upon my foes from the safety of my deployment zone. Though I did just buy another SAG to try to convert him to a biker SAG just for the hell of it so he can outflank with some Kopters for some tank hunting hilarity.

No offense taken man, again I'm not primarily an ork player but I do get the urge to WAAAAGH! every now and again
The SAG + big gunz is something I had briefly considered, probably the most durable/cheapest approach. I was thinking bm- sag, gitfinda, runts + 1 lobba + extra gretchin. Is that how you do it? I also like the koptas idea.

The build I had was tailored to the meta/match which is heavy on mech especially SH walkers. Having lg blast ordinance ap2 and a chance at ranged D plus 5 S9 rerollable armourbane on one dude is what got the idea going but somewhere I missed the weapon swap nuance.

Oh, I know you can TL it, it's just that the Mega Armor isn't compatible with the SAG, which is a bummer. That's where the Bike would come in if you're looking for a mobile SAG. Probably more safe that way anyway than being in a BW. Moving much faster, shooting just as well, and having T5 is ironically better at times than armor 12 *Since that's where you're going to get pegged, count on it*.

Yeah, I normally run a battery of 3 guns, typically Lobbas due to being so cheap. Kannons aren't bad either. Same price, but can also be anti armor and a bit anti infantry too with their optional ammo, though suffer from reduced range and the inability to Barrage.

I then tend to take an extra grot per gun just for some extra cheap wounds. I don't often bring a grot oiler or anything though. I might try him with DLS in my next game just for kicks. I don't invest too much in Ork ballistics, just because it's so unreliable, and I don't get too upset if I miss. It's to be expected. :p But at least the guns made a loud boom!

Mega Armour and Gitfinda don't actually work together when moving.

True, Mega Armour does allow you to shoot an Ordnance weapon as if Stationary, but this is strictly for the purpose of firing these weapons only. The Gitfinda bonus is lost in the Movement Phase. It's not tied to shooting, it's lost as soon as the model moves.

If Mega Armour allowed you to count as stationary for all rules purposes, that would be a different matter.
Gitfinda doesn't do much for Warbikes either.

Gitfinda- "A model with a gitfinda that remained stationary during its Movement phase has Ballistic Skill 3 until the end of its turn"

SNP- "counting as stationary even if they moved in the previous movement phase"

Where are you getting that its lost in the movement phase?Counting as stationary and stationary are the same around here. Anyway didn't intend for this to become another one of those rules debates. Its semantics and people that lawyer to that level frankly just suck to play with.

That might change an opinion on Battlewagon flashgitz with a MEga Mek.

dominuschao wrote:
Gitfinda- "A model with a gitfinda that remained stationary during its Movement phase has Ballistic Skill 3 until the end of its turn"

SNP- "However, they can shoot with Heavy, Salvo and Ordnance weapons, counting as stationary even if they moved in the previous movement phase"

Where are you getting that its lost in the movement phase?Counting as stationary and stationary are the same around here. Anyway didn't intend for this to become another one of those rules debates. Its semantics and people that lawyer to that level frankly just suck to play with.

If you only quote half a sentence, it's easy to change the meaning, isn't it?

They count as stationary for the purpose of firing those weapons, not for all other purposes, such as wargear.

Gitfinda is a stat increase, not something reliant of firing weapons. Did it move in the Movement Phase? Yes, so no bonus.
Are they firing an Ornanace weapon? Yes, so they may count as stationary for firing that. Do this mean they count as stationary for all purposes? No.

I don't see the problem with giving the Big mek a power klaw or a Killsaw. If you roll the result that puts you into combat, it would be nice to have a weapon that can hurt vehicles and infantry. Personally, I'd go with the Killsaws. Usually, I play 2 big meks with SAG. Deploy them solo, with 3 ammo runts each with gitfinda and a killsaw. They just sit in the back and support my main force in trukks and battle wagons.

You can always make him your warlord and roll on the ork warlord trait table. There is one that gives you +1 BS. Combined with the gitfinda makes you a BS4 big mek

 grendel083 wrote:

dominuschao wrote:
Gitfinda- "A model with a gitfinda that remained stationary during its Movement phase has Ballistic Skill 3 until the end of its turn"

SNP- "However, they can shoot with Heavy, Salvo and Ordnance weapons, counting as stationary even if they moved in the previous movement phase"

Where are you getting that its lost in the movement phase?Counting as stationary and stationary are the same around here. Anyway didn't intend for this to become another one of those rules debates. Its semantics and people that lawyer to that level frankly just suck to play with.

If you only quote half a sentence, it's easy to change the meaning, isn't it?

They count as stationary for the purpose of firing those weapons, not for all other purposes, such as wargear.

Gitfinda is a stat increase, not something reliant of firing weapons. Did it move in the Movement Phase? Yes, so no bonus.
Are they firing an Ornanace weapon? Yes, so they may count as stationary for firing that. Do this mean they count as stationary for all purposes? No.

The meaning doesn't change which is why I didn't include it but thanks putting the full rules exerpt. Im on board with all you said I just don't see what other purposes you are referring to? He's already moved but counts as not (paraphrasing) and it states he can assault after firing such weapons. Those are literally the only two things it need apply to. Unless your implying that snp and relentless would need to say wargear? If that were the case then mmab's and terminators don't work. CMs like papa smurph in TDA move and fire orbital bombs even at high level events btw. I dont see the difference. The interaction is fine some gamers just tend to be too pedantic when splitting hairs.

Edit x a milion (on my phone)- gw's faq/errata hasn't addressed this and neither to my knowledge has any major tournament faq like bao, lvo, nova etc. Those are what we will reference but in the absence of I don't see the problem. I did read the thread you started awhile back on the subject for bike SAGs. It works or your opponents termies dont. Thats what I'd say.

dominuschao wrote:
CMs like papa smurph in TDA move and fire orbital bombs even at high level events btw.

Orbital Bombs are just a straight up Ordance weapon. The part about them not moving was removed long ago, that's why they do work with Relentless.

SaP and Relentless allow you to count as staionary for the purpose of firing those weapons only.
Gitfinda is unrelated to the firing of weapons. It Modifies Bs, Bs is used for shooting, you have degrees of seperation.

Take a Gitfinda on a Warbike. It moves, looses it's Gitfina Bonus. Fire an Assault weapon, Relentless doesn't allow it to fire those as stationary. Fires a Heavy Weapon, for the purpose of firing that weapon it counts as stationary. Model still moved in both cases.

Take a hypothetical weapon: Lets say it hits a model automatically if it doesn't move, misses if it moves.
Would you say a moving model with SaP is hit automatically? Is it hit if it fires an Assault weapon? Is it hit if it fires a Heavy?

Orbital Bombs are just a straight up Ordance weapon. The part about them not moving was removed long ago, that's why they do work with Relentless.

It was removed but it doesn't change that the ordnance rules have the same move and fire restriction as heavy weapons. I remember that debate it was the same premise as this one and just as bad. Things like this is probably part of the reason why GW stepped away from trying to please the masses.

SaP and Relentless allow you to count as stationary for the purpose of firing those weapons only.
Gitfinda is unrelated to the firing of weapons. It Modifies Bs, Bs is used for shooting, you have degrees of seperation.

I see what your saying, but I disagree. The reason is SNP states the model counts as stationary even if they moved. This wording does not conflict directly with any other wording and has no restriction to the stationary wording, i.e. doesn't say "for the purposes of firing weapons only". Why wouldn't that benefit be factored when considering the interaction of the gitfinda? Not to mention its pretty plain that SNP/relentess was designed to interact with such wargear, and when the alternative is GW intentionally made a piece of wargear that is near pointless. Hell its questionable WITH the benefit.

Take a hypothetical weapon: Lets say it hits a model automatically if it doesn't move, misses if it moves.
Would you say a moving model with SaP is hit automatically? Is it hit if it fires an Assault weapon? Is it hit if it fires a Heavy?

This scenario doesn't exist that I'm aware of. If it did and it were common the language could hypothetically be different for SNP to address such a situation. IDK its speculation. SNP/relentless are obviously designed for the advantage when paired with Hvy/Salvo/ordnance weapons. Screwing ork players (which I'm not one) on a technicality is not something I agree with especially on a benefit so small and so rare. Agree to disagree I guess.

YMDC rules thread found here.
It's not about screwing an Ork player in a technicality, it's about getting the rules right.
I think we've gone off topic enough.

Technically, SNP doesn't say the model is always counted as having remained stationary. It says that: "They can shoot with heavy, salvo, and ordnance weapons, counting as stationary even if they moved".

These sound similar, but the when considering gitfindas, if you move at all, you get no benefit. A model with SNP and a gitfinda does not get +1 BS after moving, becase SNP ONLY counts a model as not having moved in terms of the restrictions for heavy, salvo, and ord weapons.

In any case, you can't have a model with mega armor and a SAG anyways, though the same thing applies to a SAG on a bike. If a bike moves, its rider does not benefit from a gitfinda.