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Good reports so far, I am enjoying them

Renegade Open GT 2015: Game 3

Round 3! I'm 1-1, which means that to prove Orks are competitive, I need to win this game! In addition, with high points from the first game and full points from the second, there is a very real chance I could make top 16 - but only if I rock this third game too!

I'm feeling pretty good about this. My first game was -barely- a loss, and the second game was a crushing victory. In addition, the mission is a kill point mission with 6 objectives midfield, each worth various points. PERFECT! My tide can run up in dat business and just sit on those objectives all game, doing what they do best!

The only way this can go wrong is if-


Shawn Miller's Farsight Tau with Tau Allies



I play Tau.

WELL NOW. Maybe it won't be so bad, let's look at the list, shall we.....?

Farsight
3x Crisis Suits w/ Double Melta
3x Crisis Suits w/ Double Melta
2x Crisis Suits w/ Double Missile
2x Crisis Suits w/ Double Missile
3 Sniper Drones w/ 3 Marksmen
3 Sniper Drones w/ 3 Marksmen
Riptide w/ Ion + Earth Caste
Riptide w/ Ion + Book of whatever

Ethereal
10x Fire Warriors in Dfish
10x Fire Warriors in Dfish

Deployment: Hammer and Anvil
Primary: Killpoints with Objectives being worth several KP each (there are 6 objectives, 3 placed by each player).
Secondary: Modified Maelstrom
Tertiary: Slay the Warlord, Solo Blood, Linebreaker.

.....double .

Let's count the issues for me on this list, shall we?

1. Every farsight unit has pref enemy orks. Which means that those units get to reroll ALL 1's to HIT and TO WOUND. With sniper drones/markerlights (which hit on 2s+) and riptides/suits (which wound on 2's), that means that he effectively has rerolls to hit AND to wound.
2. The deployment is HAMMER AND ANVIL. I have to march up the whole board!
3. Volume of Fire. He has the bullets to put a SERIOUS dent in my Orks. The list can put out nearly 100 wounds a turn, with large blasts, snipers (which cause pinning), drones, and long range missiles.
4. The ethereal can add MORE bullets OR give everything within 12" stubborn for free - meaning combat could be a serious pain in my ass.
5. It's HAMMER AND ANVIL. AGAINST TAU.
6. Markerlights ignoring my cover saves in terrain means a bad time for my orks which rely on those saves.
7. Did I mention it's hammer and anvil, against Tau?

Still, not all is grim. I managed to roll a 3 on the strategic table - meaning I get to infiltrate the whole horde again! HAH!

I manage the roll to go first. It's a tough decision, here.

If I go first, I get to move up that much sooner. Against a Tau gunline, every inch I can get is crucial, and that extra turn could prove vital.

On the other hand....

If I go second, I can counter deploy to minimize the damage in the first turn. In addition, I get the final chance to contest or take objectives on the final turn.

I decide to take the second option, and let Shawn deploy first. He does so, putting his 2 riptides on the line with everything else in the back. He decides to deepstrike farsight and both squads of melta suits, everything else is on the board. As a result of the riptides, I can only deploy 18" within his lines, meaning my infiltrate wasn't QUITE as useful as I was hoping it would be. Still, it's an extra 6 inches....I'll take it!

After deployment, the table looks something like this:



Early Game:

Now, remember, not only am I trying to win this game, I am trying to get full points in an effort to make top 16! That means I need Solo Blood, Slay the Warlord, and Linebreaker, along with primary AND secondary!

Shawn jumps his riptides back, activates the ethereal's storm of fire, and basically unloads on my horde. He decides to use his markerlights (mainly) to improve his BS, meaning that although he hits me on 2's (with rerolling 1's to hit and to wound ) I am able to weather the damage quite well with a 5+ or 4+ cover save, followed by my 5+ FNP.

On my turn, I move up, including my tanks and my horde, and shoot my KMK at the closest riptide (literally everything else is out of range ) I do a couple wounds to the tide, and that's about it.

At the end of turn 1, the board looks like this:



Notice anything different? You really shouldn't. I basically moved up about as far as I lost models from the shooting. Shawn has lost nothing model-wise at this point (everything is out of range except the riptides), while I've lost some boyz (though not very many).

In the meantime, I've kept the boys VERY spread out. This is on purpose, as I fully expect some suits to deepstrike in my backfield. My warboss is back there (Ill take that challenge against Farsight!) along with a bunch of klaws to deal with that threat as SOON as they pop up. They are basically the only things that can threaten my backfield.

However, as has been the case in the previous games, I am winning on secondary points. Shawn can't take KPs, he doesn't dare move forward onto the objectives, and he sure can't get into my deployment zone.

On the second turn, Farsight says "NAH" along with the other deepstriking suits, and stays off the board. Again, Shawn keeps unloading on me, shoots some boys, and still NO one has gotten solo blood.




I go WAUGH TO THE WALL with the Deffkopta and move into his deployment zone with it to get one of the secondary maelstrom point, totally recognizing that it will likely be pasted ASAP (and become solo blood ) - but I'm hoping that I can earn solo blood by finishing off the riptide. If not, I'm likely to lose a unit every turn after this, whether from the Tankbustas, the vehicles, the deffkopta, or something else.

I continue to lead Shawn in secondary points, but I am making VERY little headway towards his gunline.




Mid Game

Here's how the board looks at the top of 3.



Here comes Farsight and Co!

Shawn deepstrikes farsight and his attached melta squad in the middle of my horde (basically in the ruins) in an effort to kill my Warboss. However, I've intentionally left the Warboss in the ruins surrounded by boys (for look-out-sirs) in an effort to bait Farsight kinda close, and then hope to punch his lights out.

The other melta suit squad scatters a bit, but still ends up near the horde.

Shawn continues to sit in his backfield and bide his time. In the meantime, he gets the Maelstrom objective to try and kill my vehicle squad, and manages to kill two, but with the help of the KFF, one survives! Meanwhile, More Boys go down in flames.

And....the Deffkopta survives? I'm still not sure how the hell that happened.

Meanwhile, despite Shawn's best attempts, the Warboss survives - completely unharmed! With a 2+ LOS, followed by a 4+ cover, and a 5+ FNP, it wasn't terribly surprising.

So, at the beginning of my third turn, the board looks like this.



*Sniff sniff* Can you smell dat? It smells like a WAAAAAAAAAAAAAUGHHHH!!!

I've got a couple options here.

I can charge Farsight and co. I can charge the second suit squad....or I can (attempt) to charge the tau gunline, which would only be possible with a good run.

After a meager run, I don't feel like giving the Tau a free overwatch shooting phase, and just charge Farsight and co. I need warlord for the full points, and I don't want him threatening my backfield!



My Warboss has to challenge Farsight. Shawn accepts. What happens?



As a funny bonus, I decide to move my Tankbustas up (the final squad left in the tank), alongside of the deffkopta, and charge his ethereal's squad. I'm hoping to take out the Ethereal, which has been providing many extra shots via Storm of Fire. I win combat by massive, but because of Stubborn, the Ethereal lives, alongside of several fire warriors.

End Game

Sorry for the crappy shot, but here's how the game looks at this point.



Farsight is dead. The ethereal is tied up. The deepstriking suits are toast. One riptide is gone, and Shawn is hemorrhaging maelstrom points.

He decides to play conservatively at this point, in an effort to go for points at the end of the game. His objective is merely to hold me back, not to kill me. If he can keep me off the objectives, he can get primary and still get several points.

He activates the 6+ FNP on his ethereal, and basically unloads EVERYTHING into the gunline. No artillery. No vehicles. No Deffkopta. No Nonsense. He wants to keep me back!

And keep me back he does. He does enough damage to knock me back several inches, and even with the run, I am not making much ground on Shawn.



So, the result of the game?



After Game Thoughts:

This is by far my favorite batrep of the year !!! Tau with FE is just a bad matchup for Orks in general. I've been saying Green Tide is serious business - just requires a really kunning Warboss. Hats off to you ! ! !

Great job to the orks so far. Can't wait to see the next game.

On a side note. Farsight enclaves only gets preferred enemy orks in close combat, so that might have changed some of the shooty bits of the game. Not that you needed it.

Awesome! And to my understanding that means you win DoctorG's Stompa! Congratulations.

I gotta say, I've really been digging this report, and your army. Thank you for showing all da Orky playerz out there that they can be competitive, and with a very Orky list nonetheless!

swcorwyn wrote:
Great job to the orks so far. Can't wait to see the next game.

On a side note. Farsight enclaves only gets preferred enemy orks in close combat, so that might have changed some of the shooty bits of the game. Not that you needed it.

OOOOOOOOHHHHHHH SNAP!!!!

Too bad renegade FU the top 16 and missed out. I saw the "apology" and you were 15-16th , right?

There's a shoe to be dropped here....

THESE ARE THE FINAL PAIRINGS, PAIRINGS WILL NOT BE CHANGED AGAIN

nevermind just kidding

Awesome games! Interesting to see how would you fare against strong barrage. As Wiverns and manticores are brutal vs footsloggas. I think, stick the boss away from the blob and hope for barrage to miss or pass look outs. Or 5++ for MEK. On the other hand, you can win even without a boss, right =)

Fxeni - Awesome job!!

First off, thanks for posting the next battle. As others have said, I really appreciate seeing the Orks do some serious krumpin' in a competitive environment! All the naysayers complaining about the new Orks need to read these reports. We just needed a proppa' general to show us how it is done!

As for the game, I agree that Hammer and Anvil initially seemed to be a big disadvantage for the Orks, but it didn't seem to impact you too much (partially due to the Infiltrate for 6 extra inches). Although it meant you had to walk farther to get to the enemy, do you think it made it easier for you to deny the mid-field for longer because fewer Orks could hold the entire table width? Also, with the way the terrain was laid out, it seems like the narrow table edge deployment helped more of your boyz get cover saves than if you were advancing from the long table edge.

And you either must have a great tactical feel for the game or just a pair of great big ol' green nutz to let your opponent go first (in Hammer and Anvil!) and take an extra turn shooting you! Going second seemed to be the way to go since it allowed you to get Primary and Linebreaker, right?

Once again, I appreciate the reports and I'll be eagerly looking forward to the rest. Thanks for giving hope to us Ork players!

That last one had me on pins and needles. I thought it was going to be pretty toast for your boys, but oh my how you pulled it off

Good generalship on your part!

Wow! Definitely the best batrep I have ever seen! You have given me new faith in my Orks!

Just got to say first: great job!

Second: Jesus can anybody go to tournament without netlisting? Your opponents played some of the most unimaginative gak. This is exactly why I am really starting to like the Highlander comp. At least you get some variety.

 quickfuze wrote:
Second: Jesus can anybody go to tournament without netlisting? Your opponents played some of the most unimaginative gak. This is exactly why I am really starting to like the Highlander comp. At least you get some variety.

It's a new format. People will settle into netlists for Highlander just the same as anything else.

In fact, the "netlists" for Highlander (if people actually stick with the format long enough for competitive players to focus on it) will likely be more stale, as the rules will inevitably push things toward the center. Quantity is no longer a possible source of variety, since you can only take one of anything. That means less potential variety by default, even if it's forcing a wider variety of choices at first.

Basically, it's a wacky new system. It's wacky because it's new, not because of any inherent virtue of the system. People will inevitably find the best things to do within the confines of the rules, and then people will gravitate towards those things.

There's certainly nothing wrong with the format--it does create a different game--but I'd shy away from acting as if it's somehow going to revolutionize list-building. It's just a new set of rules for people to figure out.

DJ3 wrote:

 quickfuze wrote:
Second: Jesus can anybody go to tournament without netlisting? Your opponents played some of the most unimaginative gak. This is exactly why I am really starting to like the Highlander comp. At least you get some variety.

There's certainly nothing wrong with the format

There's something wrong with people.

I'm just wondering how you are so effectively winning maelstrom... Can't your big blob only control one objective per turn (that you designate). Wouldn't that mean you'd only be able to get 1 Maelstrom point a turn?

That's why he has koptas too

Big gunz score the backlines, greentide disallows the opponent to come midboard and scores a point per turn, other stuff scores whatever necessery.

Well well well.
I'm impressed you're doing so good with the Boyz. Not surprising you lost to Adamantium Lance. A bike list though... Even with an IK shouldn't prove to be much of a match up. Finally, that Tau list... vs the Tide? No chance. To low volume of fire.... Especially keeping the suits off the table. Tssk. Tssk.

Stay tuned ladies and germs to see if he's able to take home the trophy.... My STOMPA!.

 doktor_g wrote:
Well well well.
Not surprising you lost to Adamantium Lance.

I'd not call the loss to Adamantium lance based on a list mismatch. It was mostly due to bad luck rather than a bad matchup. So far, i think the bad matchup for greentide is only pure serpspam, barrage artillery spam and a super-tough unit with invisibility.
Pure Serp spam is rare as it's mostly mixed with Knights and spiders. Knights are not super-effective against GT and spiders are risking to get caught or murderised by ork artillery.
Artillery spam is not met too often because of the abundance of armies that don't care much about blasts - albeit strong.
Invisible tough tarpit can be encountered though.

So, it's fun but the current escalated meta is a good place for GT. Who could have thought!

 Waaagh 18 wrote:
I'm just wondering how you are so effectively winning maelstrom... Can't your big blob only control one objective per turn (that you designate). Wouldn't that mean you'd only be able to get 1 Maelstrom point a turn?

BAO's Maelstrom format (which is what was used at Renegade) is enormously different than normal Maelstrom, as there are only two objectives on the board and you roll randomly for which (out of six) missions you will have each turn, a further two of which are simply "kill a unit."

It ends up massively favoring deathstar armies--which in my opinion basically defeats the purpose of Maelstrom in the first place, but we've already ranted about this in other threads.

But basically, in that format, controlling a large portion of the board with a single unit was practically an auto-win for Maelstrom. 100 Orks is virtually tailor-made for it and I can't imagine any serious competitive army that would have much chance taking it away from them.

The only way it could have possibly hurt him is if he'd rolled both "hold an objective" missions on the same turn, but this wasn't really a problem, as each player always placed their own objective in locations that were more or less unreachable by the enemy army anyhow. For instance, there's obviously no way the Tau player was ever going to hold the Ork objective, given that it was under 100 Boyz.

DJ3 wrote:

 Waaagh 18 wrote:
I'm just wondering how you are so effectively winning maelstrom... Can't your big blob only control one objective per turn (that you designate). Wouldn't that mean you'd only be able to get 1 Maelstrom point a turn?

BAO's Maelstrom format (which is what was used at Renegade) is enormously different than normal Maelstrom, as there are only two objectives on the board and you roll randomly for which (out of six) missions you will have each turn, a further two of which are simply "kill a unit."

It ends up massively favoring deathstar armies--which in my opinion basically defeats the purpose of Maelstrom in the first place, but we've already ranted about this in other threads.

But basically, in that format, controlling a large portion of the board with a single unit was practically an auto-win for Maelstrom. 100 Orks is virtually tailor-made for it and I can't imagine any serious competitive army that would have much chance taking it away from them.

The only way it could have possibly hurt him is if he'd rolled both "hold an objective" missions on the same turn, but this wasn't really a problem, as each player always placed their own objective in locations that were more or less unreachable by the enemy army anyhow. For instance, there's obviously no way the Tau player was ever going to hold the Ork objective, given that it was under 100 Boyz.

Sometimes BAO have up to 4 maelstrom objectives on the board. The real issue with BAO maelstrom missions is that in pretty much every game I've played with BAO who wins secondary almost always comes down to who rolls better for objectives turn by turn.

I gotta ask, was the KFF actually worth it? It seems that in such a large blob a 6" radius of 5++ would be kinda worthless.

Yep. Also thinking bout it. Is a small 5++ bauble worth the points?

I think so.. It was a heavy blow to my army when I could no longer stretch the shield out into amusing balloon animals, but it's still good for protecting that nob squad, or your warlord.

 herpguy wrote:
I gotta ask, was the KFF actually worth it? It seems that in such a large blob a 6" radius of 5++ would be kinda worthless.

I've run it before in my Green Tide, though I dont' spread out to full coherency either. It can be helpful to mitigate damage as you can move the KFF around to cover whichever side will be taking the heaviest damage, since the deaths are directional. If you've got things that might insta paste the boyz, toss the KFF over to their side and hope they live a bit longer.

Though, I also have put a Morkanaught in the center of my tide before as well, or near the front to cover the front center of the Tide. Pretty awesome actually XD

That's the thing. Just because spread out into max-coherency drown-the-board mode in this particular game doesn't mean the unit's always like that.

For instance, he's going to get all blobbed up in any protracted combat, which is also a case where he won't be getting the benefit of cover saves and all the wounds are likely coming from the same general location, allowing the KFF to easily cover everyone involved in the fight.

DJ3 wrote:
That's the thing. Just because spread out into max-coherency drown-the-board mode in this particular game doesn't mean the unit's always like that.

For instance, he's going to get all blobbed up in any protracted combat, which is also a case where he won't be getting the benefit of cover saves and all the wounds are likely coming from the same general location, allowing the KFF to easily cover everyone involved in the fight.

Well a KFF does absolutely nothing in CC, so that's a moot point.

The only thing I can see making it worth it is if you want to protect your warlord/painboy/etc. from being sniped out by barrage weapons (or vindicare assassins if those are in your meta). However, it still doesn't seem like it would make it worth it.