Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2014/12/27 22:31:37
Subject: Orks at the Renegade Open GT - A Table Flip Challenge! (Game 3 up on page 3!)
Remember, the KFF provides the invuln save to more than just the squad he's in. I can't tell from the screenshots, but the KFF could be used to provide some extra protection to the backfield of the list, especially the Vehicles in case of a list with heavy Ignores Cover (wave serpents!!) and little LoS-blocking terrain.
My question is more about the Killsaw. Did you have this Mek hidden in the squad to help deal with Knights/titans/etc? The Stikk is clear, +1 WS to the entire Mob and rerolls for the killsaw.
: 7000+ : 2200+ : 570 : 400+
Fortifications: 400+
2014/12/28 00:42:17
Subject: Orks at the Renegade Open GT - A Table Flip Challenge! (Game 3 up on page 3!)
Waaagh 18 wrote:I'm just wondering how you are so effectively winning maelstrom... Can't your big blob only control one objective per turn (that you designate). Wouldn't that mean you'd only be able to get 1 Maelstrom point a turn?
koooaei wrote:That's why he has koptas too
Big gunz score the backlines, greentide disallows the opponent to come midboard and scores a point per turn, other stuff scores whatever necessery.
Bingo.
There are 6 possible rolls in Renegade GT, in no particular order:
1. Kill a vehicle/monstrous creature unit
2. Kill any unit not in 1.
3. Hold your objective
4. Hold the enemy objective.
5. Have at least one guy in enemy deployment zone
6. Have at least three units in your deployment zone with no enemy units there.
1 and 2 aren't necessarily easy for me to obtain, but they are easy for my list to deny. I only have a single vehicle unit, which is composed of 9 hull points of armor 12/11/10. Most of my non vehicle units are also hard to kill.
3. Is easy with green tide.
4 and 5 are achieved with either the green tide or deffkoptas.
6. Is also easily denied with the green tide.
herpguy wrote:I gotta ask, was the KFF actually worth it? It seems that in such a large blob a 6" radius of 5++ would be kinda worthless.
koooaei wrote:Yep. Also thinking bout it. Is a small 5++ bauble worth the points?
It's ok. Not great, not awful. It helps in certain situations when cover is ignored, and also helps to protect vehicles.
I will do a full list analysis at the end and rate the stuff in my army.
My question is more about the Killsaw. Did you have this Mek hidden in the squad to help deal with Knights/titans/etc? The Stikk is clear, +1 WS to the entire Mob and rerolls for the killsaw.
The kill saw was the main reason I took a Mek. Being able to reroll to hit with a str 9 chain fist on the charge is no joke, and it helps MURDER vehicles, especially Knights,
Automatically Appended Next Post: Renegade Open GT 2015 - Round 4
Well, I hate to disappoint you all, but there was no round 4.
Why? Well.....
The TOs for the renegade put their match ups up, and I was confused to note that I was not listed on the top 16. Thinking I has screwed up my points in my head, I double checked my score....but I was most definitely #10 pointwise.
After approaching the TOs about this, it turned out SEVERAL people who were supposed to be on the top 16 were missing from the list, while several people who were NOT supposed to be in the top 16, were.
The TOs redid their pairings, and put up another set of top 16 matchups.....which was still wrong (though, this time, I was on the list). Again, the TOs were approached and made aware of the issue, and they tried to fix it again.
In the end, the TOs spent about an hour figuring out the match ups. After four attempts, they put up (what they claimed was) their final and correct set of match ups.....which was still wrong.
People were getting (understandably) upset at this point, but the TOs were so tired, stressed, and annoyed that they refused to change it again. As a result, even though the TOs knew the matchups were wrong, and that I (and a couple others) were supposed to be playing, they would not redo the match ups again.
As a result, I (and I believe 2 others) were not allowed to play in the top 16, even though we were supposed to, and it was known we were supposed to.
The next morning, the TOs apologized for not fixing the match ups, but the damage was done. The top 8 had been determined (with the wrong players, nonetheless) but they couldn't reverse their situation.
I was so disappointed and upset about the situation that it just sucked the fun right out of the tournament for me. I had zero desire to play in the tournament anymore, especially since I was (effectively) given a loss for no reason and forced to play in The RTT as opposed to the championship due to a fixable, known-of, clerical error.
As a result, there are no more battle reports from the renegade open GT. Sorry folks.
I want to state, for the record, that the TOs are all friends of mine, and that I know there was no malevolence behind what they did. They approached me privately and apologized, offering a free years entrance into next years tournament, which was really the best they could do, considering the situation. It was a mistake, albeit one they could have prevented/fixed, and I know they will double their efforts to make sure nothing even remotely close happens like this ever again - so please don't let this discourage you from attending the renegade if you ever consider doing so in the future.
Still, not all is gloomy. I did win 2 of 3 games, did well with the Orks, and I will be writing an after tournament analysis of my list and what did or did not work, along with grading my various units.
In addition, i will be taking the green tide to the Las Vegas Open in February. I have been (pleasantly) surprised to see how popular my battle report has been, so I may end up doing battle reports of that GT if people are interested.
In the meantime, as I said, I will post a list analysis and grade of my units shortly, so look forward to that!
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/12/28 01:08:22
2015-2016 GT Record
Iron Halo GT - 1st Place
Bay Area Open 2016 - 2nd Place
WAAAGHFEST 2016 - 1st Place
Flying Monkey 2016 - 1st Place
Adepticon 2016 - 2nd Place
Renegade GT 2015 - 1st Overall / 2nd General
Dragonfall GT 2015 - 1st Place
Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake. -Chessmaster Tartakower
2014/12/28 01:30:34
Subject: Re:Orks at the Renegade Open GT - A Table Flip Challenge! (Game 4 up on page 4.....well, kinda.)
Your battle reports were top notch. I can't wait for your list analysis. Getting a bat rep for the upcoming LVO would be amazing!
As for the clerical error, it happened to me before. It sucks for all parties. Hopefully the organizers will learn from what happened this year so that they can avoid a repeat next year. Good fighting despite what happened. Orks might not've been able to take the top this year, but it was a good fight and there's always next year.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/28 03:14:18
: 7000+ : 2200+ : 570 : 400+
Fortifications: 400+
2014/12/28 04:46:35
Subject: Orks at the Renegade Open GT - A Table Flip Challenge! (Game 4 up on page 4.....well, kinda.)
That game could have gone either way. This was a good strategy overall, but the knights were going to make it very hard to win. Glad you were able to keep it so close.
Hey Fxeni, so I've been following this batrep log since I've always been interested in orks and am finally starting them so I've been on a lot scouring for deals. But anyhow, a couple questions. Obviously you are a pretty dang good player, but are you typically a tournament competitive player or more of a friendly type gamer? I ask this because while you have shown that orks can still hang tough with the bigger dogs, it really doesn't seem like it would be a ton of fun to play. Do you actually enjoy playing this list or do you just like being able to hang in competitive circuits?
40K:
The Purge Vracksian Renegades WAAAAAGH Scrappa Death Skullz
2014/12/29 01:40:37
Subject: Orks at the Renegade Open GT - A Table Flip Challenge! (Game 3 up on page 3!)
Fxeni wrote: Well, I hate to disappoint you all, but there was no round 4.
Why? Well.....
There's the shoe!
Sorry you got screwed out of a shot at the top 8. :(
I'm looking forward to your unit analysis/tactica. No one plays Orks locally, and I've only ever faced them twice in the past two years, so I've no real appreciation for how they work (or don't).
2014/12/29 10:40:28
Subject: Re:Orks at the Renegade Open GT - A Table Flip Challenge! (Game 4 up on page 4.....well, kinda.)
Nobody's real sure what happened with that final set of pairings, but everyone involved knows it was an absolute mess.
Going into the fourth round, I was tied for first (me and one other player were 1-point off of the max possible, and nobody scored max). The first three sets of pairings they put up, I was the #1 seed, and the other player was the #2 seed.
The "final" pairings, inexplicably, had me as the #12 seed and the other player as the #7 seed. It was very, very strange.
2014/12/29 12:48:11
Subject: Orks at the Renegade Open GT - A Table Flip Challenge! (Game 4 up on page 4.....well, kinda.)
That was a great run, Fxeni. Too bad about the ending, but I hope you had fun at least until that point. Good to see orks kicking a$$ and taking names.
I might have to challenge the BloodofKittens guy to a game one of these days. He ran the greentide in our last tournament and did quite well with them.
BTW, see you at the LVO.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/29 15:48:00
Benamint wrote:Hey Fxeni, so I've been following this batrep log since I've always been interested in orks and am finally starting them so I've been on a lot scouring for deals. But anyhow, a couple questions. Obviously you are a pretty dang good player, but are you typically a tournament competitive player or more of a friendly type gamer? I ask this because while you have shown that orks can still hang tough with the bigger dogs, it really doesn't seem like it would be a ton of fun to play. Do you actually enjoy playing this list or do you just like being able to hang in competitive circuits?
I LOVE Orks - I would not be playing them if I did not have fun with them. That's why I don't run Tau or Eldar, which, (IMHO) are probably better tournament armies. I only run stuff I have fun with.
Granted, my green tide isn't as fun as my 5th ed Battlewagon Orks were, but regardless, I still enjoy the hell out of it!
After Greentide, I plan on running one of da Triple Bs: Blitz Brigade, or Bikes, or Bully Boyz, all of which (I think) will be both fun AND competitive, so I encourage you to check those out if green tide isn't your style.
jy2 wrote:That was a great run, Fxeni. Too bad about the ending, but I hope you had fun at least until that point. Good to see orks kicking a$$ and taking names.
I might have to challenge the BloodofKittens guy to a game one of these days. He ran the greentide in our last tournament and did quite well with them.
BTW, see you at the LVO.
Aye, I look forward to meeting multiple people there. You may not actually recall, but I met you at Adepticon this previous year, discussing Necron tactics.
Dilt wrote:Your battle reports were top notch. I can't wait for your list analysis. Getting a bat rep for the upcoming LVO would be amazing!
As for the clerical error, it happened to me before. It sucks for all parties. Hopefully the organizers will learn from what happened this year so that they can avoid a repeat next year. Good fighting despite what happened. Orks might not've been able to take the top this year, but it was a good fight and there's always next year.
Aye. The damage has been done. I know some people may feel inclined to raise a stink about this, but honestly, it's already caused enough grief for all parties. I'd rather the tournament succeed next year (where I get free attendance) and they do a better job then see the GT fail - the damage is done, feeling slighted by it will not change anything at this point (though, at the moment of the feth-up, I was most definitely very, VERY, pissed off)
2015-2016 GT Record
Iron Halo GT - 1st Place
Bay Area Open 2016 - 2nd Place
WAAAGHFEST 2016 - 1st Place
Flying Monkey 2016 - 1st Place
Adepticon 2016 - 2nd Place
Renegade GT 2015 - 1st Overall / 2nd General
Dragonfall GT 2015 - 1st Place
Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake. -Chessmaster Tartakower
2014/12/29 19:19:14
Subject: Orks at the Renegade Open GT - A Table Flip Challenge! (Game 4 up on page 4.....well, kinda.)
jy2 wrote:That was a great run, Fxeni. Too bad about the ending, but I hope you had fun at least until that point. Good to see orks kicking a$$ and taking names.
I might have to challenge the BloodofKittens guy to a game one of these days. He ran the greentide in our last tournament and did quite well with them.
BTW, see you at the LVO.
Aye, I look forward to meeting multiple people there. You may not actually recall, but I met you at Adepticon this previous year, discussing Necron tactics.
I met a lot of dakkalites, including Roci, RiTides, Wyomingfox, Fxeni, Chancetragedy (my roommate for the trip), Eltrain (my Adepticon Team Tournament teammate), Coldsteel (my other Adepticon Team Tournament teammate), Yermom (Nick Nanavati, winner of the Adepticon singles), Mike Brandt and many others.
jy2 wrote:That was a great run, Fxeni. Too bad about the ending, but I hope you had fun at least until that point. Good to see orks kicking a$$ and taking names.
I might have to challenge the BloodofKittens guy to a game one of these days. He ran the greentide in our last tournament and did quite well with them.
BTW, see you at the LVO.
Aye, I look forward to meeting multiple people there. You may not actually recall, but I met you at Adepticon this previous year, discussing Necron tactics.
I met a lot of dakkalites, including Roci, RiTides, Wyomingfox, Fxeni, Chancetragedy (my roommate for the trip), Eltrain (my Adepticon Team Tournament teammate), Coldsteel (my other Adepticon Team Tournament teammate), Yermom (Nick Nanavati, winner of the Adepticon singles), Mike Brandt and many others.
Touche, haha!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/29 19:36:49
2015-2016 GT Record
Iron Halo GT - 1st Place
Bay Area Open 2016 - 2nd Place
WAAAGHFEST 2016 - 1st Place
Flying Monkey 2016 - 1st Place
Adepticon 2016 - 2nd Place
Renegade GT 2015 - 1st Overall / 2nd General
Dragonfall GT 2015 - 1st Place
Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake. -Chessmaster Tartakower
2014/12/29 19:51:27
Subject: Orks at the Renegade Open GT - A Table Flip Challenge! (Game 4 up on page 4.....well, kinda.)
@Fxeni - I am looking at bikers since I really enjoyed my MoN bikers of chaos. The only reason I asked was it just seemed like the army was based more off board/objective denial. So I was just wondering if it was more droll to play than the other three you just mentioned. I am looking forward to seeing more bat reps from you! I might being going to LVO (one of my buddies is and invited me along if I can scrape up the funds) but I'll be looking more at the 30k event and I've been kicking around the idea of the friendly or hobby classes
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/29 19:52:35
40K:
The Purge Vracksian Renegades WAAAAAGH Scrappa Death Skullz
2014/12/31 18:33:54
Subject: Orks at the Renegade Open GT - A Table Flip Challenge! (Game 4 up on page 4.....well, kinda.)
Benamint wrote:@Fxeni - I am looking at bikers since I really enjoyed my MoN bikers of chaos. The only reason I asked was it just seemed like the army was based more off board/objective denial. So I was just wondering if it was more droll to play than the other three you just mentioned. I am looking forward to seeing more bat reps from you! I might being going to LVO (one of my buddies is and invited me along if I can scrape up the funds) but I'll be looking more at the 30k event and I've been kicking around the idea of the friendly or hobby classes
Really, it honestly depends on your play style. I will say, however, that you have to be okay with getting shot the hell up with Green Tide - the other lists I mentioned tend to be faster and more intense, but also have less resiliency. Just do some playtests - but I suspect that if you enjoy MoN bikes, then you'd prolly enjoy Ork bikes too!
Feel free to say hi at the LVO!
jy2 wrote:
Saythings wrote: Did the Doc_G ever send the Stompa?! I must know!!! Haha.
I was following that challenge post from the start and I must know the end to the fairy tale!!! <3
I would assume no. Doc's challenge was if you can win a GT with orks.
grendel083 wrote:The points mix up put an end to the challenge it looks like sadly.
Not quite. Here's what the challenge was:
Build a tourney-legal, pure ork list at 1850pts. Play it in a competitive meta. Win 2/3 times and show me the proof
This message was edited 11 times. Last update was at 2015/01/02 00:09:05
2015-2016 GT Record
Iron Halo GT - 1st Place
Bay Area Open 2016 - 2nd Place
WAAAGHFEST 2016 - 1st Place
Flying Monkey 2016 - 1st Place
Adepticon 2016 - 2nd Place
Renegade GT 2015 - 1st Overall / 2nd General
Dragonfall GT 2015 - 1st Place
Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake. -Chessmaster Tartakower
2015/01/01 02:02:46
Subject: Orks at the Renegade Open GT - A Table Flip Challenge! (Post-Tournamet List Analysis Started on pg4)
I really enjoyed this Tournament report are you going to keep trying to make Orks competitive? I would be very interested in seeing your progress on that front.
To try and mitigate the low LD on the tankbustas you could add bosspoles to the units. However, I see you don't take nobz so adding both nobz and the bosspole to the tankbustas will increase the points cost of the unit a fair bit across all 3 squads.
MrFlutterPie wrote: I really enjoyed this Tournament report are you going to keep trying to make Orks competitive? I would be very interested in seeing your progress on that front.
To try and mitigate the low LD on the tankbustas you could add bosspoles to the units. However, I see you don't take nobz so adding both nobz and the bosspole to the tankbustas will increase the points cost of the unit a fair bit across all 3 squads.
Sadly, that doesn't work. Fear still works on ld7, and since it is neither a morale or pinning check, bosspole (and mob rule) don't do anything to help.
And yes, I will continue to be playing Orks.
2015-2016 GT Record
Iron Halo GT - 1st Place
Bay Area Open 2016 - 2nd Place
WAAAGHFEST 2016 - 1st Place
Flying Monkey 2016 - 1st Place
Adepticon 2016 - 2nd Place
Renegade GT 2015 - 1st Overall / 2nd General
Dragonfall GT 2015 - 1st Place
Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake. -Chessmaster Tartakower
2015/01/01 18:19:57
Subject: Re:Orks at the Renegade Open GT - A Table Flip Challenge! (Post-Tournamet List Analysis Started on pg4)
MrFlutterPie wrote: I really enjoyed this Tournament report are you going to keep trying to make Orks competitive? I would be very interested in seeing your progress on that front.
To try and mitigate the low LD on the tankbustas you could add bosspoles to the units. However, I see you don't take nobz so adding both nobz and the bosspole to the tankbustas will increase the points cost of the unit a fair bit across all 3 squads.
Sadly, that doesn't work. Fear still works on ld7, and since it is neither a morale or pinning check, bosspole (and mob rule) don't do anything to help.
And yes, I will continue to be playing Orks.
Ah that sucks.
Still happy to hear you are going to keep going with this project
Thanks for the unit analysis.
The KFF seems to be the only really optional thing.
However, my meta has a lot of thunderfire cannons, so I think the KFF would help a lot to protect my warboss, painboy, and big mek within the green tide.
Argel Tal and Cyrene: Still a better love story than Twilight
2015/01/01 18:37:57
Subject: Orks at the Renegade Open GT - A Table Flip Challenge! (Post-Tournamet List Analysis Started on pg4)
That was a disappointing tale. I was on the edge of my seat all the way till this page, rooting for the orks. After being on Dakka and viewing all these tourneys, especially TOs, seem to feth up or the tourney itself is horribly broken by WAAC players. The guy who said rock em sock em robots earlier in the thread was exactly right imo.
I hope you get your stompa, you earned it. Also, I wasn't surprised except by the Tau matchup. Good general-ship all around.
The first game of W40k was against Orks. I held respect for them ever since. (I lost btw.) So that is why I wasn't surprised by your victories.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/01/01 18:43:30
Orks at the Renegade GT 2014 - Post-Tournament List Analysis.
Well, after running the list through its paces, I thought I would do a quick breakdown of the units I used, grade them, and give some thoughts on what did (and did not) work.
BIG MEK::
Spoiler:
I was always on the fence with the KFF Big Mek, and after the tournament - I still feel the same way. Let's break him down, bit by bit, because his relics and gear kind are what kind of make him special:
Kustom Force Field: Eh. It was okay. I mainly took the KFF for two reasons:
1. Against armies that ignored cover (but, for example, didn't have blasts), I could ball up the green tide and still get a 5++ followed by the 5+ FNP. In reality, it didn't work out quite that way - though there were several times that the KFF allowed a 5++ save when I wouldn't have gotten one otherwise (for example, the knights).
2. Protecting my vehicles. This, the KFF did well. That 5++ saved my vehicles several times, although it never really made or broke any game. It was merely helpful.
So was the KFF on the Mek work it? Eh, still on the fence on that. It certainly wasn't MANDATORY, though it was useful. If I had had the opportunity to take something else more useful for 50 pts, I probably would have.
Killsaw: This thing was AWESOME. It was fantastic for killing knights, and combo-ed with the Lucky Stikk (for rerolling to hit) it made him a deadly combatant. For this item alone I would consider taking a Big Mek in the future, since a Warboss can't.
Lucky Stikk: A++++++. Do not leave home without one. I cannot tell you how many times the +1 WS to my entire tide came into play. Hitting Knights on 3+? Dreadknights hitting the blob on 4+? Making the warboss WS6 in a challenge? This thing was FANTASTIC. As a bonus, I can reroll to hit, to save, and to wound with my Killsaw-weilding-Big-Mek basically as much as I want? It will never leave my green tide list, ever again.
GRADE: B+
WARBOSS::
Spoiler:
This guy wasn't bad. I took him, basically, for the unlimited turn 2+ WAUGH as a part of the formation. That part was incredibly valuable as a force multiplier, and for that reason alone I'd take the warboss again.
He also wasn't a slouch in CC, either. For a relatively cheap price, this guy has 4 (5 on the charge) str 10 PK attacks, which is awesome for things like Knights, Bikes (or Farsight ).
However, the "Forced to declare challenge or accept challenge" is such a crap mechanic, and I am tired of GW's seemingly endless love for it. It makes him such a liability. Often I found myself putting the warboss in the back, simply because I couldn't afford to lose that endless WAUGH, and I was afraid he would get punked out in a challenge he COULD NOT deny (such as what happened in Game 1 AND 2).
If I could get rid of that ONE stupid rule, this guy would be awesome. As it is, he's merely there as a force multiplier that hopes to avoid challenges at all costs. If the opponent has no valid challengers, then great, but otherwise, this guy hides way, way back.
GRADE: B- (Would be A if the challenge rule was gone)
PAINBOY::
Spoiler:
50 pts for FNP for an entire Green Tide? Are you kidding me? Sold. What else do I need to say?
GRADE: A+++ (Basically Mandatory)
TANKBUSTAS::
Spoiler:
Ever since the new 'dex dropped, I have loved Tankbustas. Initially, when I was figuring out my list, I faced a dilemna: How would I deal with flyers? I could take Traktor Kannons, but the problem that I found in playtesting is that they were basically USELESS unless the opponent took flyers (which many players did not). Skyfire on all targets with str 8 Ap3 just doesn't cut it.
So, I turned to Tankbustas. With 23 of them rolling around, they had a few (very nice) advantages:
1. They all had Melta Bombs with Tankhunter. These guys RUIN vehicles, including Knights.
2. They all had Rokkits at 24" with Tankhunters. At 24", since there are 23 shots, don't underestimate their ability to ruin flyers days. Remember that they ALL get to reroll to pen, and that your opponent has to decide to jink BEFORE he sees how many hits you get. This means these guys are fantastic at air suppression (at least, with low numbers of flyers).
3. It was more bodies! Just enhances the strengths of the green tide.
4. They get a bonus VP for getting solo blood on a vehicle, which is nice (even though it never came into play).
5. Don't forget: Melta Bombs can also be used on Monstrous Creatures! Hitting these guys with str 8 AP 1 weapons is pretty awesome.
However, the Tankbustas also had a few fragility issues:
1. They have a 6+ armor, a 7ld, and no FNP. Their only method of protection is their vehicle, which, if it blows, means these guys die in a hurry.
2. They have serious problems with fear, which, unfortunately, all Knights and Monstrous Creatures have. I cannot tell you how many times I charged a Knight with these guys only to have them hit on a 5+. It's very, very frustrating.
All in all, they weren't bad. They did their job and still killed multiple vehicles, they had decent shooting, and they served their job in killing a few MCs and units (either through shooting or combat). I really wish there was a way to mitigate their low LD, but as far as I'm aware, there isn't. Fear checks aren't affected by mob rule, and adding an IC of some kind isn't really feasible (only a Warboss would increase their LD, and he's busy with the blob).
GRADE: B+
GREEN TIDE::
Spoiler:
I have, ironically, long LOATHED the Green Tide. Throughout 5th and 6th, I found it boring, slow, ineffective, and noncompetitive. This version of green tide typically ran 30+ member mobs which had Kans in the front to offer cover saves, and had no painboy. I was always more of "FAST AND HARD" kind of player - meaning that my preferred playstyle was to get in the opponent's face ASAP with as many threats as possible. It is, as Jy2 calls it, a "Maximum Threat Overload" kind of playstyle.
Enter 7th edition. I saw several potential options in competitiveness. Initially, I considered Blitz Brigade, Bully Boyz, Bikes, and Green Tide - and I scoured the internet looking for thoughts on each of these. Surprisingly (at least to me) there was very little that I could see in the way of Ork players. Very few well known competitive players played ANY Orks, and so battle reports were slim pickings. What I did find, however, was a consensus that Green Tide was quite good.
I was skeptical. How could it be any different? It's basically the same ol' slow list. But then I tried it....
Green Tide is incredibly strong. Basically, nearly all of my problems with it were fixed with the formation.
Slow? You can Waugh every turn.
Klaws can be picked out via challenges? Not with tons of Nobs with Klaws hiding in it.
Lack of resiliency? Painboy + tons of bodies helps with that.
All in all, Green Tide is solid. It is a damn good formation, with a threat of bodies overload that most opponents cannot handle. In addition, it is intimidating to MANY opponents. It is fantastic at taking the board, charging multiple units, and providing board denial.
However, there are some ways that it SHOULD be run, and ways it should NOT be run.
It is important to keep the green tide's cost down. A lot of people run max klaws, tons of 'eavy armor, with 200+ bodies. This is overdoing it, because you are taking points away from your support units, which are necessary.
Personally, I feel around 8 Klaws (that includes ICs) is about right. That's 6 nobs, a Big Mek, and a Warboss. I also didn't run any 'eavy armor (though, a single unit of 10 or 20 might be useful). The minimum of 100 bodies - and I felt that was about right. Anymore then that, and I start losing vital support units.
Remember: The green tide is fantastic at being a threat at absorbing fire, but it alone will not win you a game. You need units to suppress enemy shooters or flyers, forcing them to jink (Tankbustas). You need a way to deal with lack of mobility (Deffkoptas). You need a way to kill things at range (Kustom Mega Kannons). Etc. These units are JUST AS IMPORTANT as the Green tide, and are necessary to win you games.
The main issue I have with the green tide is that it is slow. Really, really slow. Even with the WAUGH, the unit isn't moving a lot per turn. Granted, once the charging starts, the unit really picks up speed, but it can usually be a long game turn (or three, or five) before you hit the enemy lines. So you need to be ok with taking punches, and then giving your own long, slow, powerful counterpunch. That's how the Green Tide plays.
In summary, it's a good formation. Its main weakness is that it's slow, and its very easy to spend too many points into it. Aside from that, it will overwhelm a LOT of opponents, and has the capacity to win you nearly every game - if you play it right. I have yet to play a game that I thought I couldn't win with Green Tide - and moreover, the main reason I lost Game 1 was because of dice, not because of the Green Tide.
GRADE: A
GROTS::
Spoiler:
There really seems to be a lot of dislike on these forums for grots. People seem to think that with 7ed and everything being scoring, gretchin have no place in the meta anymore. I disagree. I feel like they fulfill the same roll as always: Cheap screeners, and inexpensive backfield objective holders.
I ran mine dirt cheap: 35 points for 11 bodies. And....they did their job. They were only attacked in one game (Game 1) because my list forces the opponent to deal with the Green Tide. Every shot taken at the Gretchin is a shot not taken at the Tide - which works for me. As a result, the only time the Gretchin died was in Game 1 when the Green Tide was finally wiped out.
Some people would argue for taking a naked unit of boys over gretchin. Again, I disagree. Gretchin may be much weaker, but the difference between the efficiency of the gretchin and a unit of 10 boys is negligible to me. First of all, both units have the same ld (7) - but for an extra 5 points the Gretchin can reroll it, unlike the boys (unless you take a nob and a BP, which just adds MORE points). The Gretchin unit is easier to kill, but they're also cheaper for the cost. It would cost you 66 points to get 11 Boy bodies, while you get 11 Gretchin bodies for 35 pts - nearly half the cost.
The only time I've found my gretchin dying, it was to something that would have ruined a boys unit too. Knights? Kills both. Dreadknight? Kills both. Wave Serpent? Kills both. My gretchin are NEVER exposed to things like a tactical squad, where a Boy squad would make the difference. As a result, I find the Gretchin do their job just fine. They're cheap, they're effective, and they're objective secured. Just don't expect them do things worth more then their 35 point value, and you won't be dissapointed.
GRADE: B
DEFFKOPTAS::
Spoiler:
Oh Deffkoptas - how the mighty have fallen.
I loved Deffkoptas in 5ed. If you went first, you could get a first turn charge with them on vehicles (due to how the scout rule used to work), which often resulted in a vehicle kill. That's really all they were that good for, though.
Now with that rule gone, I have a tough time finding a place for Deffkoptas in my list. I took them for one reason, and one reason alone for Renegade: The Maelstrom Missions.
See, as mentioned before, the Green Tide isn't that fast. Holding my own backfield is easy, but getting to the opponent's objectives or table edge (which is relevant for 1/3rd of Maelstrom Missions at Renegade) can be a problem.
My solution to this was the Deffkopta. As a jetbike, it can move 12", and then turbo boost another 24" to pull a last second hold on an opponent's objective or put a scoring unit in his deployment zone. As a result, the Deffkoptas basically had one job: Sit out of line of sight, and when I rolled 1 of the 2 relevant Maelstrom results, run out, do their job, and die.
That's all they were, though: Sacrificial Maelstrom Points. They never did anything other then that. A BS2 twin-linked Rokkit for 35 pts or so isn't a good deal. It only has two wounds and a 4+ armor/jink, so it dies easily, and you have to pay a crazy premium to give them a powerklaw which only makes them -moderately- useful in close combat. As a result, they're fragile, they're expensive, they're not effective in CC (It couldn't even kill an Ethereal in game 3!), and they're easy KP for the opponent. Their only advantage is their speed.
Had it not been for Maelstrom, I would not have run them. They just don't contribute anything to the game - I'd much rather have something else for the cost, like more Tankbustas or support units. However, for the Maelstrom points at Renegade, they did their job - and that's all I ever really expected of them.
GRADE: C
BIG TRAKKS::
Spoiler:
I took Big Trakks because I wanted a compromise between the inexpensiveness of Trukks, with the resiliency of a battlewagon.
At armor 12/11/10 and 3 HP, these guys are pretty good for their cost. They come with a rule called "Rumbler", which allows them to reroll dangerous terrain if they moved combat speed - kind of like a poor man's ram. With that (and some careful movement) you don't really need to buy a ram or deffolla. Better, they can be given Boarding Planks for 5 pts - totally worth the cost!
They come with 2 big shootas standard. You can pay points (and potentially some transport capacity) to give them other weapons too. I tried them initially with big lobbas - which are str 6 AP 4 barrage - but I found they didn't really pay out, and I stuck with the standard loadout. 2 big shootas may not be much, but I thought with 18 shots from a squadron of three it might help against FMCs. However, since I didn't play any, that theory remains untested.
So how did they perform? Better then a Trukk, and Worse then a Battlewagon - for a price that's Better then the Trukk, and Worse then the Battlewagon. I imagine there is a way to increase the deadliness of these vehicles, but none of the options really struck a chord with me.
They survived quite a bit more firepower then I thought they would, and to be quite honest, they were mostly penned by things that would pen a battlewagon anyways (like meltas, for example). They're pretty good transports for a relatively cheap price. I wish deffrollas were still feasible, but alas, they got nerfed into oblivion with the 7ed Ork Dex.
All in all, a decent transport. Not great, not awful, but somewhere in between. They were basically a semi-resilient mobile box that didn't kill much.
GRADE: B
KUSTOM MEGA KANNONS::
Spoiler:
There was a lot of hooplah (hooplah is a fun word. Say it to yourself. Hooplah.) over the new Mek Gunz that came out with the new Ork Dex.
A lot of people lost their minds over how good the Traktor Kannons are. Others were impressed with the cheap price of regular Kannons and Lobbas.
Me? Kustom Mega Kannons allllll the way.
These bad boys are simply FANTASTIC. They have a good range of 36", are str 8 for instant death, Ap2, blast to help avoid crappy ork shooting - This kind of shooting is like a pipe dream to me that I wanted from my 5ed dex.
Take 5 of em with 5 ammo runts. Always. The kannons have gets hot!, but here's a neat little trick: If you ever roll a 1 on the get's hot!, you can use an ammo runt to reroll it - and make your gun twin-linked too! It basically entirely mitigates the Gets Hot! problem from the guns, and makes them INCREDIBLY reliable.
I could go on and on and on about how MUCH I LOVE Kustom Mega Kannons, but I think I will try and sum it up with some absolutely 100% true kills that resulted from my Kustom Mega Kannons (either in playtesting or in the Renegade):
In game 1 of the renegade, in 1 shooting phase, they wiped out the 5 GK terminators and the GK Libby attached - entirely by themselves. Again, that's in ONE TURN OF SHOOTING.
They killed somewhere around 10 bikes in game 2 of the renegade.
They killed two riptides and 3 suits in game 3 of the renegade.
In a playtest game, they killed 8 SM Terminators and an attached Chapter Master (no Shield eternal) in ONE TURN!
They have murdered countless Dreadknights.
And, in one game, they shot at 5 paladins and Draigo - and killed everything except for one of the Paladins in ONE TURN.
Take them. They are fantastic - even if only for scaring the out of your opponent who will want to stay the feth away.
GRADE: A+
2015-2016 GT Record
Iron Halo GT - 1st Place
Bay Area Open 2016 - 2nd Place
WAAAGHFEST 2016 - 1st Place
Flying Monkey 2016 - 1st Place
Adepticon 2016 - 2nd Place
Renegade GT 2015 - 1st Overall / 2nd General
Dragonfall GT 2015 - 1st Place
Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake. -Chessmaster Tartakower
2015/01/02 02:27:14
Subject: Re:Orks at the Renegade Open GT - A Table Flip Challenge! (Post-Tournament List Analysis FINISHED, P4)
Liking the analysis, and the whole thread in general, thanks for taking the time to catalog it all
Any thoughts on making the Tide Fearless? A Big Boss Pole on the Warboss wouldn't have cost much, people in my groups have started to pile pinning tests onto my poor boys to force Mob checks, doesn't look like you had much of that going on but it can start to pile up casualties.