Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So with the whole Shield of Baal stuff, Hive fleet Leviathan made it all the way towards Baal. And looking at the map it's pretty deep in the galaxy considering Baal's location.
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/8/8a/Tyranid_Hive_Fleets_Galaxy_Map.jpg

So how bad is it compared with previous Hive fleet invasions?

Keep in mind that Leviathan is "deep in the galaxy" because they approached from the flat side of the disk shape rather than from the outer edge like the other hive fleets. That in and itself is a big deal because it basically allows the nids to hit most anywhere and is actually not that far from Terra. Its not that the hive fleet is particularly stronger than the others I don't think but more just an unsuspected angle of attack. Dangerous all the same.

Leviathan is bigger than Kraken and Behemoth were combined. And Gorgon is yet another threat. Not to mention that Kraken splinter fleets are still floating around out there as well doing their thing. However, Leviathan is almost starting from Square 1 with their adaptive biology since the Eldar killed the splinter of Kraken that had the genetic secrets of all the major races. So the threat of Leviathan is mitigated, but not any smaller in scale.

Wasn't Gorgon destroyed by the Tau/Imperium team up?

Looks like it. And in their place is Jormungandr and Hydra which I know nothing about. But, considering a popular belief back in 3rd, not sure if it holds water anymore, is that these are the vanguard of the Tyranid race. Basically everything the Galaxy has seen, everything in the game, is the equivalent of Genestealers. Another theory, and again I don't know if it's current, was that the Nids were actually running from something and just trying to eat what they could to travel to the next Galaxy. And if something can scare Tyranids, do you think Orks can stop THAT too? But no matter what, yes, the Tyranids are a huge threat because no matter how bad things get, they promise a whole lot worse is still coming.

If GW makes that happen with 001M42, I doubt it, but ya never know.

The Tyranids were created (Either Evolved or designed as a weapon, either way irrelevant) and spread out from their native galaxy. Feeding on anything and everything.

They've spread to multiple galaxies (we can't be sure of the number), but we have evidence of that because the fleets aren't all coming from one source - they're coming from different directions, and therefore different galaxies. There's another piece of evidence that proves they're not coming from the same galaxy; the hive fleets fight each other when they come into contact with one another - which suggests that they grew apart and developed separately, possibly spending thousands of years without contacting other hives.

There is some other fluff that suggest the Tyranids have been to our Galaxy before. In a Ciaphas Cain Novel there is a frozen hive ship that's older than the Imperium. We can disregard this information though, because even if it's canon -- it doesn't really have any bearing on whether the Tyranid Situation now is really bad or not.

The reason why they're coming to the Galaxy appears to be the Astronomicon, the hive fleets are bee-lining straight for it. I think there is a simple explanation as to why; when a Tyranid Hive is done eating a Galaxy, they'd have to set out randomly towards another Galaxy. This has risks. The Galaxy could be empty/dead/eaten by another Hive... therefore the Hive Fleets would want to minimize risk when choosing another Galaxy to eat. The Astronomicon is a giant ringing dinner bell, its existence proves that there is at least something to eat here and so the Tyranids are attracted to our Galaxy. On this premise, only Tyranid Hive Fleets which have finished eating their Galaxy would set out towards ours, there could be many more hive fleets that are still consuming galaxies but have their eyes on ours next.

It seems like the Galaxies around ours have been remarkably empty, considering that the Hive Fleets that have been encountered (each containing a Galaxy's worth of biomass), were defeated so easily (relatively).

As to the extent of the problem, let's tally up what we know:
- Multiple Galaxies worth of biomass has been consumed.
- Multiple Hive Fleets have been attracted to our galaxy.
- Each Hive Fleet has consumed a galaxy's worth of biomass.

The main problem is the amount of biomass the Tyranids have collected in those galaxies. If one of the fleets manages to consume a Galaxy with even half the biomass of ours --- It would be game over. That many organisms working with a singular focus. Totally unstoppable.

So in my opinion, either (Galaxies around us were relatively empty and we've been lucky), or (the tyranids feeding on galaxies with high amounts of biomass aren't done eating yet). If it's the former, we stand a chance of taking on each Hive Fleet as it comes and we might be able to cause the extinction of the Tyranids if they keep on coming in small(ish) clumps. If it's the latter, we're fethed.

 Otto Weston wrote:


There is some other fluff that suggest the Tyranids have been to our Galaxy before. In a Ciaphas Cain Novel there is a frozen hive ship that's older than the Imperium. We can disregard this information though, because even if it's canon -- it doesn't really have any bearing on whether the Tyranid Situation now is really bad or not.

I know this is going off-topic so sorry, but IIRC, the existance of Ymgarl genestealers also imply the tyrannids visited the galaxy previously, and the kraken egg (and thus krakens) in the Fang (which was there since like, 30k or so? I forget) was determined to possibly be Tyrannic in origin.

 Otto Weston wrote:
As to the extent of the problem, let's tally up what we know:
- Multiple Galaxies worth of biomass has been consumed.
- Multiple Hive Fleets have been attracted to our galaxy.
- Each Hive Fleet has consumed a galaxy's worth of biomass

Not safe assumptions, because;

- We don't know that each hive fleet has actually defeated the entirety of the galaxy it is coming from
- We don't know that each hive fleet consists of the entirety of the biomass of the previous galaxy, because
--- It may have left biomass behind
--- It may have send biomass off in several directions
--- It may have used up a LOT of biomass in accomplishing the journey between the stars, especially as if they are truly homing in on the astronomicon, they must have been journeying at incredible speeds
- We cannot be sure they are coming from multiple galaxies just because of the direction they are coming from. If they are, why are the all arriving in such a relatively short period of time? More likely they have evolved differently during the journey from just one or from very few galaxies.

 Otto Weston wrote:


The reason why they're coming to the Galaxy appears to be the Astronomicon, the hive fleets are bee-lining straight for it. I think there is a simple explanation as to why; when a Tyranid Hive is done eating a Galaxy, they'd have to set out randomly towards another Galaxy. This has risks. The Galaxy could be empty/dead/eaten by another Hive... therefore the Hive Fleets would want to minimize risk when choosing another Galaxy to eat.

Man, i alwayz knew those moths are up for something when they fly around my lamp!

Maybe the hive fleets have been spending too much resources on the way to out galaxy. You know, this journey ain't easy.

 Fifty wrote:

 Otto Weston wrote:
As to the extent of the problem, let's tally up what we know:
- Multiple Galaxies worth of biomass has been consumed.
- Multiple Hive Fleets have been attracted to our galaxy.
- Each Hive Fleet has consumed a galaxy's worth of biomass

Not safe assumptions, because;

- We don't know that each hive fleet has actually defeated the entirety of the galaxy it is coming from
- We don't know that each hive fleet consists of the entirety of the biomass of the previous galaxy, because
--- It may have left biomass behind
--- It may have send biomass off in several directions
--- It may have used up a LOT of biomass in accomplishing the journey between the stars, especially as if they are truly homing in on the astronomicon, they must have been journeying at incredible speeds
- We cannot be sure they are coming from multiple galaxies just because of the direction they are coming from. If they are, why are the all arriving in such a relatively short period of time? More likely they have evolved differently during the journey from just one or from very few galaxies.

Agreed... there are too many variables to make these assumptions. Also, the Tyranid fluff explains that when a hide fleet is done scouring a planet or system the bio-forms that are not necessary for the trip to the next system are rendered back into fuel by sacrificing themselves in the "resource reservoirs", or whatever they are called. I would imagine that this would be true of an intergalactic trip. The hive fleet would consolidate its biomass and resources into the smallest, most efficient fleet in order to minimize waste and resource drain. the ravenous hunger that the tyranids exhibit are also probably a result of the entire hive fleet staring from all of the time spent in the intergalactic void. So the threat is massive, but nothing suggests that larger and more advanced tyranid fleets are on their way. also I would imagine, that since the Astronomicon only has a range of about 70000 light years and the galaxy is 100000 light years across, then the tyranids that are drawn to it stumbled upon it by getting close enough to sense it, so i don't think there is a large concerted tyranid effort converging on the galaxy because it has scored all life from our local group.

Also, in the 40k universe, the universe is still only about 14 billion (and 38,000) years old. The milky ways is about 13 billion years old. The history of the sentient races in the galaxy only go back a few million years. it may be a bit of a logical leap but i think it is reasonably safe to assume that the Tyranids had to originate in a very close galaxy. the nearest major galaxy to us is Andromeda, which is 2.5 million light years away. IIRC the warp only mirrors the Milky Way and doesn't extend into intergalactic space because of a lack of psychic activity. This means that apart from using their gravity shenanigans, there is no way for the tyranids to move through the intergalactic void in a manor that would be effective enough for it to survive longer trips. Making the assumption that life took 12.5 billion years to crop up in the milky way galaxy, and that a similar amount of time would be required in other galaxies, then the tyranids simply haven't had time to travel further afield than our local group. This means that the idea of it scouring an entire galaxy clean is highly unlikely due to time. The presence of hive ships predating the imperium is a big deal and does show the virulence f the threat, it would mean that the hive fleets have been trickling in over the last 10 thousand years. In the 250 years or so that they have been a real menace in the galaxy , they have only encountered a very small percentage of the galaxy. meaning it would take more time than sentient races have had space faring technology for a hive fleet to consume all of the biomass in a galaxy.

in my opinion, the only logical conclusion is that some sort of extra galactic force, like maybe the fleeing Old Ones or some other nigh omnipotent race created them and sent them to wipe the galaxy clean. I think this would be a logical response for the Old Ones to take in the aftermath of the war in heaven/ enslaver plague. They already lost the galaxy to the necrons and enslavers, and they have the mentality of a god complex. Why not send a devouring super weapon to scour the galaxy clean so they can eventually, in a few hundred mellenia start over. according to the fluff they are functionally immortal, so what is a few hundred thousand years on that scale?

The point i'm trying to make with all of this is that the evidence points not to an unstoppable force of nature that we just happened to be in the way of. ( this is a view point that I think is unique to a sentient species who live on a fragile planet where an extraterrestrial threat like an asteroid or comet could destroy our planet and there is nothing we could do about this. and the GW presentation of the Tyranid situation is simply this scenario taken up to galactic scale, which frankly given the sheer scale of our galaxy is unrealistic at best) But rather a situation that while arduous and taxing is manageable. The other hive fleets so far have been largely mitigated by our galactic residents, and i think whatever else comes, barring some sort of horrible pan galacitc disaster (eye of terror 2.0) the residents of the milky way will manage it.

So to answer the OP question, the threat is bad, but not cataclysmically and inevitably terminal.

However, an insurmountable force of nature set against the protagonist is the hallmark of Gothic horror, which is basically all of 40k so i'm not surprised that the tyranids have been built up to be this, even if that possibility isnt really feasible.

 GKTiberius wrote:


Agreed... there are too many variables to make these assumptions. Also, the Tyranid fluff explains that when a hide fleet is done scouring a planet or system the bio-forms that are not necessary for the trip to the next system are rendered back into fuel by sacrificing themselves in the "resource reservoirs", or whatever they are called. I would imagine that this would be true of an intergalactic trip. The hive fleet would consolidate its biomass and resources into the smallest, most efficient fleet in order to minimize waste and resource drain. the ravenous hunger that the tyranids exhibit are also probably a result of the entire hive fleet staring from all of the time spent in the intergalactic void. So the threat is massive, but nothing suggests that larger and more advanced tyranid fleets are on their way. also I would imagine, that since the Astronomicon only has a range of about 70000 light years and the galaxy is 100000 light years across, then the tyranids that are drawn to it stumbled upon it by getting close enough to sense it, so i don't think there is a large concerted tyranid effort converging on the galaxy because it has scored all life from our local group.

Also, in the 40k universe, the universe is still only about 14 billion (and 38,000) years old. The milky ways is about 13 billion years old. The history of the sentient races in the galaxy only go back a few million years. it may be a bit of a logical leap but i think it is reasonably safe to assume that the Tyranids had to originate in a very close galaxy. the nearest major galaxy to us is Andromeda, which is 2.5 million light years away. IIRC the warp only mirrors the Milky Way and doesn't extend into intergalactic space because of a lack of psychic activity. This means that apart from using their gravity shenanigans, there is no way for the tyranids to move through the intergalactic void in a manor that would be effective enough for it to survive longer trips. Making the assumption that life took 12.5 billion years to crop up in the milky way galaxy, and that a similar amount of time would be required in other galaxies, then the tyranids simply haven't had time to travel further afield than our local group. This means that the idea of it scouring an entire galaxy clean is highly unlikely due to time. The presence of hive ships predating the imperium is a big deal and does show the virulence f the threat, it would mean that the hive fleets have been trickling in over the last 10 thousand years. In the 250 years or so that they have been a real menace in the galaxy , they have only encountered a very small percentage of the galaxy. meaning it would take more time than sentient races have had space faring technology for a hive fleet to consume all of the biomass in a galaxy.

in my opinion, the only logical conclusion is that some sort of extra galactic force, like maybe the fleeing Old Ones or some other nigh omnipotent race created them and sent them to wipe the galaxy clean. I think this would be a logical response for the Old Ones to take in the aftermath of the war in heaven/ enslaver plague. They already lost the galaxy to the necrons and enslavers, and they have the mentality of a god complex. Why not send a devouring super weapon to scour the galaxy clean so they can eventually, in a few hundred mellenia start over. according to the fluff they are functionally immortal, so what is a few hundred thousand years on that scale?

The point i'm trying to make with all of this is that the evidence points not to an unstoppable force of nature that we just happened to be in the way of. ( this is a view point that I think is unique to a sentient species who live on a fragile planet where an extraterrestrial threat like an asteroid or comet could destroy our planet and there is nothing we could do about this. and the GW presentation of the Tyranid situation is simply this scenario taken up to galactic scale, which frankly given the sheer scale of our galaxy is unrealistic at best) But rather a situation that while arduous and taxing is manageable. The other hive fleets so far have been largely mitigated by our galactic residents, and i think whatever else comes, barring some sort of horrible pan galacitc disaster (eye of terror 2.0) the residents of the milky way will manage it.

So to answer the OP question, the threat is bad, but not cataclysmically and inevitably terminal.

However, an insurmountable force of nature set against the protagonist is the hallmark of Gothic horror, which is basically all of 40k so i'm not surprised that the tyranids have been built up to be this, even if that possibility isnt really feasible.

Well said.

But what if the Tyranids had some means of exceeding light speed in their intergalactic travels? Like, as an adaptive lifeform with some kind of species-wide awareness, perhaps it's more efficient for them to break out into smaller (yet still gigantic) vessels prior to entering a galaxy?

This thread just made me love, and hate tyranids so much more.

The Astronomican may be detectable by tyranids from another galaxy if we consider its known range to only be what the sentient life in the milky way can detect. Dogs for example can hear frequencies that we cannot, a hawk can see in detail much further. Maybe the Astronomican is detectable by the nids from MUCH (and it would have to be much) greater distances.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Otto Weston wrote:
The Tyranids were created (Either Evolved or designed as a weapon, either way irrelevant) and spread out from their native galaxy. Feeding on anything and everything.

They've spread to multiple galaxies (we can't be sure of the number), but we have evidence of that because the fleets aren't all coming from one source - they're coming from different directions, and therefore different galaxies. There's another piece of evidence that proves they're not coming from the same galaxy; the hive fleets fight each other when they come into contact with one another - which suggests that they grew apart and developed separately, possibly spending thousands of years without contacting other hives.

There is some other fluff that suggest the Tyranids have been to our Galaxy before. In a Ciaphas Cain Novel there is a frozen hive ship that's older than the Imperium. We can disregard this information though, because even if it's canon -- it doesn't really have any bearing on whether the Tyranid Situation now is really bad or not.

The reason why they're coming to the Galaxy appears to be the Astronomicon, the hive fleets are bee-lining straight for it. I think there is a simple explanation as to why; when a Tyranid Hive is done eating a Galaxy, they'd have to set out randomly towards another Galaxy. This has risks. The Galaxy could be empty/dead/eaten by another Hive... therefore the Hive Fleets would want to minimize risk when choosing another Galaxy to eat. The Astronomicon is a giant ringing dinner bell, its existence proves that there is at least something to eat here and so the Tyranids are attracted to our Galaxy. On this premise, only Tyranid Hive Fleets which have finished eating their Galaxy would set out towards ours, there could be many more hive fleets that are still consuming galaxies but have their eyes on ours next.

It seems like the Galaxies around ours have been remarkably empty, considering that the Hive Fleets that have been encountered (each containing a Galaxy's worth of biomass), were defeated so easily (relatively).

As to the extent of the problem, let's tally up what we know:
- Multiple Galaxies worth of biomass has been consumed.
- Multiple Hive Fleets have been attracted to our galaxy.
- Each Hive Fleet has consumed a galaxy's worth of biomass.

The main problem is the amount of biomass the Tyranids have collected in those galaxies. If one of the fleets manages to consume a Galaxy with even half the biomass of ours --- It would be game over. That many organisms working with a singular focus. Totally unstoppable.

So in my opinion, either (Galaxies around us were relatively empty and we've been lucky), or (the tyranids feeding on galaxies with high amounts of biomass aren't done eating yet). If it's the former, we stand a chance of taking on each Hive Fleet as it comes and we might be able to cause the extinction of the Tyranids if they keep on coming in small(ish) clumps. If it's the latter, we're fethed.

A thing I like about this idea is that if true, the tyranids eating our galaxy would end up saving the universe. If all the hive fleets in existance came to the milky way, then there shouldn't be enough biomass left avaliable to get them all back out of it. They would starve due to there being more nids than the galaxy could support.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
LAnother theory, and again I don't know if it's current, was that the Nids were actually running from something and just trying to eat what they could to travel to the next Galaxy. And if something can scare Tyranids, do you think Orks can stop THAT too?

They are running from other Orks. It's an intergalactic pincer maneuver. Sneaky gitz...

Actually it's never been established that they have visited multiple galaxies. Also, as far as I'm aware, while each hive fleet operates independantly of each other they're all part of the same hive mind and all pursue the same goals. I've never seen in any of the tyranid codexes an incident where one hive fleet attacks another.

Given the age of the universe, there is a specific finite amount of time the tyranids had to evolve, consume their galaxy and set out to find ours. Also, that time is quite smaller simply because of how long it took for galaxies to form and for stars to have enough matter other than hydrogen surrounding them to form planets. To get a planetary system like ours with heavier atoms in the abundace you find in our solar system you need a third or fourth generation star. Which also takes time. Forming planets also takes time. So the Tyranids likely haven't been at this for as long as one might think.

Considering the timeferame involved in traversing the emptyness between galaxies it is most likely that the tyranids are from one of the smaller galaxies in our local group as they are also closer to us. Those galaxies are mostly dwarf galaxies and contain but a fraction of the mass and number of stars found in the milky way, as the the our galaxy is the most massive galaxy in our local group. Since the tyranids are the natural enemies of every living thing in the milky way and have no allies here, to look at the situation in terms they would understand, from an available biomass perspective they are at an inherrent disadvantage. And that's not even taking into account how much energy is wasted in the vast empty blackness between galaxies, where there is nothing for them to feed on.

If the above is true, then it is also likely that their home galaxy was much easier to consume than ours is proving to be. Personally, while the I certainly agree that the Tyranids are a galactic menace that have the ability and potential to disrupt the natural progression of our galaxy, our galaxy is more dangerous to them, then they are to it.

kungfujew wrote:
Actually it's never been established that they have visited multiple galaxies. Also, as far as I'm aware, while each hive fleet operates independantly of each other they're all part of the same hive mind and all pursue the same goals. I've never seen in any of the tyranid codexes an incident where one hive fleet attacks another.

kungfujew wrote:
If the above is true, then it is also likely that their home galaxy was much easier to consume than ours is proving to be. Personally, while the I certainly agree that the Tyranids are a galactic menace that have the ability and potential to disrupt the natural progression of our galaxy, our galaxy is more dangerous to them, then they are to it.

The Hive Fleets are speculated, if not outright stated to simply be the first tendrils of the main mass of Tyranids. Since even these are giving the inhabitants of the galaxy significant trouble, it's easy to imagine that the main fleet would easily overwhelm our defenses.

kungfujew wrote:
Given the age of the universe, there is a specific finite amount of time the tyranids had to evolve, consume their galaxy and set out to find ours. Also, that time is quite smaller simply because of how long it took for galaxies to form and for stars to have enough matter other than hydrogen surrounding them to form planets. To get a planetary system like ours with heavier atoms in the abundace you find in our solar system you need a third or fourth generation star. Which also takes time. Forming planets also takes time. So the Tyranids likely haven't been at this for as long as one might think.

Considering the timeferame involved in traversing the emptyness between galaxies it is most likely that the tyranids are from one of the smaller galaxies in our local group as they are also closer to us. Those galaxies are mostly dwarf galaxies and contain but a fraction of the mass and number of stars found in the milky way, as the the our galaxy is the most massive galaxy in our local group. Since the tyranids are the natural enemies of every living thing in the milky way and have no allies here, to look at the situation in terms they would understand, from an available biomass perspective they are at an inherrent disadvantage. And that's not even taking into account how much energy is wasted in the vast empty blackness between galaxies, where there is nothing for them to feed on.

I think you underestimate the power of science fiction. Tyranids are stated to travel faster than the speed of light, so travel time between galaxies wouldn't be too long compared to the age of the universe. If it takes Tyranids 1 million years to scour a galaxy (it took humanity about 200 years to settle across the breadth of it, to put that into perspective) and 9 million years to travel to the next galaxy (Andromeda is 2.5 million light years away) then they could have gobbled up a hundred galaxies and still potentially be much younger than life on Earth.

Well nids vs nids happens. they "test" their stategies.and one consumes another , so they become stronger.
Second, time is not a problem, if lets say humans can travel whith light speed at 2100 maybe a "smarter" can do it in half or 1/10 of time (tau-like)
so nids can come from a other galaxy BUT if they run it means that they lost so they are like an army that lost a war :shaterd, so maybe leviathan is the last desperate atempt of atack (thats why they atack from the "flat" side, its an all-in move)
Of course if they consumed the other gallaxy then...well thats bad
But they are many ways to win them even then , viruses for exaple , IoM and Tau tried it and suceded (and it was 2 difent kinds, so where 2 exist infinite exist )

The core rulebooks have been stating in their fluff sections for several editions that the Tyranids encountered thus far are simply the furthest flung tendrils of the greater beast still in the inter-galactic void, and have been stating this as fact. There are more on the way, and Leviathan is not "it".

Not that this discounts the "running from something" theory, the "super weapon" theory etc. It's just absolutely stated that the bulk of the invasion is not here yet.

It certainly appears as if the Tyranid threat is surrounding the Galaxy given that they are appearing in vastly different regions of space. Given that Tyranids take quite some time to travel I could imagine that the fleets arriving are fairly weak compared to when they set out on their journey.

Also that image in the OP.

There is a short story called Hive Fleet Horror. There it is explained that the Tyranid race is vast and it is spread across the cosmos. Even if the galaxy defeats the Tyranids, their race as a whole will not be affected.

 Tyran wrote:
There is a short story called Hive Fleet Horror. There it is explained that the Tyranid race is vast and it is spread across the cosmos. Even if the galaxy defeats the Tyranids, their race as a whole will not be affected.

Even when I've tried googling it, I've only found a reference or two to the story, not the actual story itself... Do you mind telling me where I could find it?

Thanks

It's not easy to find, specially because it is an old story. It comes in the Dark Imperium anthology.

kungfujew wrote:
[...]I've never seen in any of the tyranid codexes an incident where one hive fleet attacks another.[...]

It's in one of the Ciaphas Cain novels. Hormagaunts from different hive fleets are in adjacent cells and once the door is raised, they kill eachother.

Hormagaunts aren't a good example though; they're not synapse creatures, and a brood of them will turn on one another if they're hungry enough.

But yes, back to the original question, Leviathan is bad because it's coming from below the galactic plane - which means that unlike Kraken, you can't 'track' a line of advance from the fringe towards imperial space - a tendril hits the galactic plane without warning and spreads out from that point.

This is playing merry hell with the Imperium's ability to co-ordinate a response, as instead of a 'battle line' where scorched earth of the Kryptmann doctrine can be applied (as with Kraken and Behemoth), you have a patchwork of warzones which not only are threats themselves but provide no-go areas that hamper your ability to move troops around to meet other threats, and (thanks to the shadow in the warp) potentially blot out astropathic messages from further incursions beyond them.

 Hansisaf wrote:

kungfujew wrote:
[...]I've never seen in any of the tyranid codexes an incident where one hive fleet attacks another.[...]

It's in one of the Ciaphas Cain novels. Hormagaunts from different hive fleets are in adjacent cells and once the door is raised, they kill eachother.

Wouldn't this be because there's no synapse to direct them, causing them resort to their basic instinct of feeding on the closest thing

 Hansisaf wrote:

kungfujew wrote:
[...]I've never seen in any of the tyranid codexes an incident where one hive fleet attacks another.[...]

It's in one of the Ciaphas Cain novels. Hormagaunts from different hive fleets are in adjacent cells and once the door is raised, they kill eachother.

There is also Kraken and Leviathan teaming up in the Valedor campaign. Although it seems that while both fleets are part of a greater whole, there are psychic characteristics that differentiate each fleet. It's like if Leviathan used Windows and Kraken used Mac. Such differences can eventually be overcome and the 2 fleets may become one, but it takes time.

Although it seems that the Shield of Baal campaign also has it's own different version of the Tyranid Hive Mind... let's just agree that the 40k fluff is a mess of contradictions.

tgjensen wrote:

I think you underestimate the power of science fiction. Tyranids are stated to travel faster than the speed of light, so travel time between galaxies wouldn't be too long compared to the age of the universe. If it takes Tyranids 1 million years to scour a galaxy (it took humanity about 200 years to settle across the breadth of it, to put that into perspective) and 9 million years to travel to the next galaxy (Andromeda is 2.5 million light years away) then they could have gobbled up a hundred galaxies and still potentially be much younger than life on Earth.

I'm a huge fan of any and all science fiction and I agree that your statement is just as plausable as my scenario. I just happen to believe that my scenario is more likely especially given that in the grim darkness of the far future, everyone's future hangs in the balance. As a person with 5000-6000 points of nids, even though they're on the back shelf in boxes now, I think that all the races are equally in danger, which is the crux of the game's setting.

Taffy17 wrote:

 Hansisaf wrote:

kungfujew wrote:
[...]I've never seen in any of the tyranid codexes an incident where one hive fleet attacks another.[...]

It's in one of the Ciaphas Cain novels. Hormagaunts from different hive fleets are in adjacent cells and once the door is raised, they kill eachother.

Wouldn't this be because there's no synapse to direct them, causing them resort to their basic instinct of feeding on the closest thing

I think the shadow of the warp was already upon that world, but I could be mistaken.

I can't say I particularly care about calculated assumptions, I take the fluff that we have only seen the outriders of the Grand Hive Fleet because... well Grim Dark. Its a cool story and I'm not a fan of the Emperor returning etc. as far as I'm concerned the Imperium is dead by the year 42,000 and despite all the kicking and flailing, there is little humanity can do about it.

Its that basic 'arc' that got me into 40k in the first place.

________

Sub-question, say Abaddon is successful in overrunning Cadia and the Eye of Terror expands incredibly - would the Shadow of the Warp cripple it? Is the Tyranid magic power stronger - does rock beat scissors?

Sub-question, say Abaddon is successful in overrunning Cadia and the Eye of Terror expands incredibly - would the Shadow of the Warp cripple it? Is the Tyranid magic power stronger - does rock beat scissors?

Depends. It's more of a localized effect, rather than a definitive answer one way or the other.

If the EoT is driven by the directed willpower of the House of Chaos Undivided... then the Hive Mind doesn't stand a chance. If, instead, the EoT is just driven by the "background radiation" of the Warp... then the SitW could very well limit its spread... but only so long as those Tyranids stay in that area and do not, in small numbers, break away from the fleet to "go check out what's happening over there", because that's going to end up with mutant bugs, and once that starts happening, you eventually get a Corrupted Hive Fleet, and that's, like, extinction-level event (for the Nids of that fleet, anyway).