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I've worked as a contractor. So I might have a different view on certain things. I still have my grout from the last tiling job I did that I'm currently trying to figure out how to put to good use.
And I still have access to the old school paint mixing colours.
Back when house painters still mixed their own colours..
And you might also have a different tilein mind than the kind I'm thinking of. Ceramic wall and floor tiles I've laid housands of square meters of.. :p

Talys wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
You must have painted a lot more models than me or be a lot more wasteful Outside of primer and washes, I'll probably empty about 1 pot per army on average that I've done over the years. Some armies I've done the whole army without emptying a pot, others I've gone through a few pots (I think my Tyranids I've used 3 pots of bone/beige).

I've lost a significant number of pots because they dried out, and that's my primary gripe with GW paints, more than any other company their paints dry out far too easily.

I used to run out of black a lot, because I'd often prime white and then recoat a lot of the model in black (many years ago when I was an ignorant preteen ). But my current pot of black has been going for ages and it's not even half empty.

Painting a lot of vehicles I guess you'd run out. I do have an IG army but it's still reasonably small so I've only done a handful of vehicles and paint running out hasn't been an issue. A few drops in the airbrush is usually enough to coat a tank.

I blow through paint like nobody's business on terrain. A set of terrain boards will take like 10 pots of paint (and I do mean 4-5 of one color). Buildings, craters, hills, etc are all paint drains too. Monstrous creatures, big vehicles and superheavies, which are all the rage now, eat up piles of paint too -- whether it's a voidraven bomber, baneblade, wraithknight, I will usually buy a couple of pots of paints of the main colors I'm using because I know I'll exhaust whatever color I have on hand.

Regarding airbrush: I go through significantly more paint through an airbrush, than on a paintbrush.

For me, the only time I don't use a lot of paint is non-basecoat layers for infantry. Speaking of paint efficiency, for washes and highlights, I vastly prefer pots to droppers, because far less is wasted. It's impossible with a dropper for me to get a little dot of paint, and if I put it onto a wet palette, overnight, the leftover will make a mess.

My favorite container is P3, which, ironically looks exactly like GW's containers circa 1985. When I run out of paint in P3 pots, I actually clean out the pots, and put my favorite GW or VGC paints into them. I get excited when I run out of a P3 pot, lol.

I forgot about terrain... I don't touch the little pots of paint when it comes to terrain regardless of the manufacturer. Stick to buying cheap artist's paints for terrain.

Airbrushing... if I'm airbrushing single infantry models then I waste a lot of paint because I tend to mix far more than I need and spend a lot of time test spraying before I get to the actual model. But I don't paint single infantry models that often (usually only when testing new schemes) so it doesn't really make a dent in my paint. I airbrushed 50 saurus/temple guard and a stegadon recently and I used maybe a quarter of a pot of green and only a few drops of brown, bone, red and orange to do it. So I estimate I'd be able to paint a full Lizardmen army without emptying a pot.

I will admit I haven't been taken up by GW's superheavy craze, maybe if I started buying superheavies left right and center I might start going through more paint. I've actually found I use surprisingly little paint to do regular sized tanks with my airbrush, I think I waste more paint when I use a hairy brush on tanks because you need a lot of paint just to wet a hairy brush.

Speaking of paint efficiency, for washes and highlights, I vastly prefer pots to droppers, because far less is wasted. It's impossible with a dropper for me to get a little dot of paint, and if I put it onto a wet palette, overnight, the leftover will make a mess.

I have noticed from one thread to the next I consistently disagree with you on this point Part of the reason I have swapped to Army Painter washes over GW washes is because they come in droppers which makes things sooooo much easier for me. I find I have very little waste with droppers, I just squeeze out what I think I need, if I don't squeeze out enough, I just squeeze out a little more. With pop tops I find myself constantly having to close the paint, shake it and reopen it, I find it harder to control the amount of paint on the brush if I'm trying to extract it directly from the pot instead of from off a palette, so I tend to put the wash on a palette regardless and extracting wash from a pop top is much more annoying than from a dropper.

I also don't like leaving my pop tops open for any length of time because they do thicken up and change consistency. This has been a real problem with some armies where I've painted part of the army, swapped to another army, then come back to the first army a few months (or years) later... the wash has thickened up and so models I do later end up darker than models I did earlier (I can obviously try and thin the wash down a bit, but recreating the same consistency is hard).

So I prefer the droppers where I can extract my paint without letting much air in to the pot to dry it out.

Don't P3 use droppers for their washes as well? So I guess they agree with me

The only time I prefer pop tops for washes is if I need no more than 1 brush load to do some small details, in those circumstances a pop top is nice because you open it, get a brush load, close it, done. As soon as I need to go back for a 2nd brush load, I prefer the dropper bottle.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I have noticed from one thread to the next I consistently disagree with you on this point Part of the reason I have swapped to Army Painter washes over GW washes is because they come in droppers which makes things sooooo much easier for me. I find I have very little waste with droppers, I just squeeze out what I think I need, if I don't squeeze out enough, I just squeeze out a little more. With pop tops I find myself constantly having to close the paint, shake it and reopen it, I find it harder to control the amount of paint on the brush if I'm trying to extract it directly from the pot instead of from off a palette, so I tend to put the wash on a palette regardless and extracting wash from a pop top is much more annoying than from a dropper.

I also don't like leaving my pop tops open for any length of time because they do thicken up and change consistency. This has been a real problem with some armies where I've painted part of the army, swapped to another army, then come back to the first army a few months (or years) later... the wash has thickened up and so models I do later end up darker than models I did earlier (I can obviously try and thin the wash down a bit, but recreating the same consistency is hard).

So I prefer the droppers where I can extract my paint without letting much air in to the pot to dry it out.

Don't P3 use droppers for their washes as well? So I guess they agree with me

The only time I prefer pop tops for washes is if I need no more than 1 brush load to do some small details, in those circumstances a pop top is nice because you open it, get a brush load, close it, done. As soon as I need to go back for a 2nd brush load, I prefer the dropper bottle.

Hah! Yeah, me too It's all good, though -- I am pretty sure I am in the minority in liking pots, and I sure wont' disagree that cleaning them is a b*tch. I use plenty of paints in droppers, and I have nothing against them.

And yeah, P3 use droppers for washes and pots for paints, which seems a bit puzzling to me, but I'm not a big fan of their washes.

Re superheavies -- if you don't play the game, and don't enjoy the modelling of them, stay clear.. they are very expensive relative to the amount of time to paint one, and it's a whole other modelling experience anyhow. I am not a big fan of the models. Unfortunately (or not?), if you do play, tons of people have them now, and they are pretty much a "must have"... or some equivalent expensive (dollar wise) heavy hitting units, like centurion deathstar.

Frankly, I'm not a big fan of painting/modelling any of the vehicles, but I do it so that I can have playable armies for the odd time that I'm in the mood.

Talys wrote:
I am pretty sure I am in the minority in liking pots.

You're not alone though, I also prefer pots. The problem with dropper bottles is the smallest amount of paint you can easily get out is one drop, which is often way more than I need. If I just want a tiny amount of paint to do a small detail, or tint another colour, pots are more convenient.

 Smacks wrote:
The problem with dropper bottles is the smallest amount of paint you can easily get out is one drop

Except that's not really true. You can easily just smear less than 1 drop on to your palette. If you only need a single brush stroke worth, you can just shake the bottle then pick up the bit around the rim with your brush.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Smacks wrote:
The problem with dropper bottles is the smallest amount of paint you can easily get out is one drop

Except that's not really true. You can easily just smear less than 1 drop on to your palette. If you only need a single brush stroke worth, you can just shake the bottle then pick up the bit around the rim with your brush.

I didn't say it was impossible. I said it wasn't as easy. Notice that we both used the word "easily", easiness is a relative term. Sticking your brush in a pot is obviously easier then sticking your brush in a nozzle by virtue of its size. Squeezing and scraping with a dropper bottle can work, but there is little control (especially when paint can get sucked back in) it's easy to accidentally squeeze out too much. Lifting paint out of a pot with the brush is very precise. This is why I said pots are more convenient in that regard.

Since dropper bottles and pots are the only two containers being discussed, I might also say that dropper bottles are the most difficult to get a sub-drop sized amount of paint out of. While it might still be easier than trying to open clamshell packaging without injury, in comparison to pots it's a bit of a nuisance. Which is why I prefer pots, and why I said what I did.

Smacks, I took a photo of one of my pieces of terrain to demonstrate the usefulness of a couple of the technical paints.

The floor plates are very quickly done: Black primer, then Leadbelcher with a 3/4" flat brush, then Nuln oil just to darken it a bit. Then the technical paint magic:

Using a crappy old round brush (about size 2) I put on Typhus Corrosion, thick in the crevices, and thin elsewhere. It goes on almost like a wash, but it has grit and gunk, and doesn't quite flow as much. This leaves the brownish, greasy-looking marks you see in all the crevices, and the oily ooze that is in some of the plates (like on the last two to the right). It's quite a bit of volume that the paint adds when you put it on thick..

Then, I liberally drybrush Ryza Rust, which leaves the rusty orange color. When you look at the compound, it just looks like Citadel dry, but you can see that the paint leaves a definite texture. On the left edge of the leftmost zoomed-in plate, the previously straight edge of the floor plate now looks weathered in a rusty, "kinda broken" way.

When I'm done, I very gently drybrush a tiny bit of brass, so that the occasional spot looks shiny. The great thing is that this is very easy to do -- something that anyone, with any skill level can make look great with almost no effort and little time (though you do need to let the typhus corrosion fully dry, or it makes a mess).



On the whole dropper bottle thing, I just wanted to add one last point -- I absolutely HATE on Vallejo paints, especially metallic ones, that I have no flippin way of knowing if it's fully shaken. Vallejo paints separate like crazy anyhow, and if I want to make sure a paint is fully homogenized, there seems to be no solution other than to shake for a really, really long time. Looking at the side of the bottle is pointless, as certain paints always look separated >.< In contrast, with citadel, P3, or Tamiya, I can simply look at the paint and say, ok, that needs more. And, if it's really stubborn, I can simply take a toothpick and stir it.

It's so bad that if I know that I am going to use a Vallejo metallic that's been shelved ahead of time, I will strap it onto the end of a reciprocating saw locked into "on" (I remove the blade and replace it with a quickclamp) and come back in 15 minutes.

 Smacks wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Smacks wrote:
The problem with dropper bottles is the smallest amount of paint you can easily get out is one drop

Except that's not really true. You can easily just smear less than 1 drop on to your palette. If you only need a single brush stroke worth, you can just shake the bottle then pick up the bit around the rim with your brush.

I didn't say it was impossible. I said it wasn't as easy. Notice that we both used the word "easily", easiness is a relative term. Sticking your brush in a pot is obviously easier then sticking your brush in a nozzle by virtue of its size. Squeezing and scraping with a dropper bottle can work, but there is little control (especially when paint can get sucked back in) it's easy to accidentally squeeze out too much. Lifting paint out of a pot with the brush is very precise. This is why I said pots are more convenient in that regard.

Since dropper bottles and pots are the only two containers being discussed, I might also say that dropper bottles are the most difficult to get a sub-drop sized amount of paint out of. While it might still be easier than trying to open clamshell packaging without injury, in comparison to pots it's a bit of a nuisance. Which is why I prefer pots, and why I said what I did.

Ok, easy is a relative term, I'll give you that... but both are so damned easy that I think it hardly bears mentioning relative difficulty

I'll also contend that lifting paint out a pot with a brush is any more precise vs squeezing a dropper

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Ok, easy is a relative term, I'll give you that... but both are so damned easy that I think it hardly bears mentioning relative difficulty

This is true, but even little things can become irksome if you're repeating them several times a day. I don't feel especially strongly either way, but if pushed I would say I prefer pots. Not the GW pots though. The p3 and Coat d'Arms pots are nice.

Talys wrote:

Spoiler:

Smacks, I took a photo of one of my pieces of terrain to demonstrate the usefulness of a couple of the technical paints.

The floor plates are very quickly done: Black primer, then Leadbelcher with a 3/4" flat brush, then Nuln oil just to darken it a bit. Then the technical paint magic:

Using a crappy old round brush (about size 2) I put on Typhus Corrosion, thick in the crevices, and thin elsewhere. It goes on almost like a wash, but it has grit and gunk, and doesn't quite flow as much. This leaves the brownish, greasy-looking marks you see in all the crevices, and the oily ooze that is in some of the plates (like on the last two to the right). It's quite a bit of volume that the paint adds when you put it on thick..

Then, I liberally drybrush Ryza Rust, which leaves the rusty orange color. When you look at the compound, it just looks like Citadel dry, but you can see that the paint leaves a definite texture. On the left edge of the leftmost zoomed-in plate, the previously straight edge of the floor plate now looks weathered in a rusty, "kinda broken" way.

When I'm done, I very gently drybrush a tiny bit of brass, so that the occasional spot looks shiny. The great thing is that this is very easy to do -- something that anyone, with any skill level can make look great with almost no effort and little time (though you do need to let the typhus corrosion fully dry, or it makes a mess).

Wow! That come out really nice Talys. You have some really amazing works! Thanks for the info on the technical paints. Wouldn't these effects get a bit lost after varnishing though?

It's so bad that if I know that I am going to use a Vallejo metallic that's been shelved ahead of time, I will strap it onto the end of a reciprocating saw locked into "on" (I remove the blade and replace it with a quickclamp) and come back in 15 minutes.

That'll teach em! I might have to try that with my humbrol enamels.

Smacks, the model in the photo is varnished with Vallejo airbrush stuff . That is one of the gaming pieces I use all the time. He one thing I don't understand about t is why an imperial defense line would have skeletons of imperial guard at the front facing the enemy... Fear us, for you have slain our soldiers!!

The other nice thing about the rust finish for the ground tiles is you don't notice chips hahaha.

 Smacks wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Ok, easy is a relative term, I'll give you that... but both are so damned easy that I think it hardly bears mentioning relative difficulty

This is true, but even little things can become irksome if you're repeating them several times a day. I don't feel especially strongly either way, but if pushed I would say I prefer pots. Not the GW pots though. The p3 and Coat d'Arms pots are nice.

I do like the P3 pots, though I've only got a few of them and if they're anything like the old GW pots which I think they are (the ones from 15+ years ago) then once the tab snaps off, the hinge breaks or the lid starts to tear in half they do start to get much more annoying. I'm not sure if that will happen, but they look the same as the old GW pots and the old GW pots did that all the time.

The newer GW pots are junk.

But when it comes to washes and using an airbrush (which I increasingly find myself using) I prefer droppers by a large margin, so in light of that I tend to go for dropper bottles first.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
if they're anything like the old GW pots which I think they are (the ones from 15+ years ago) then once the tab snaps off, the hinge breaks or the lid starts to tear in half they do start to get much more annoying. I'm not sure if that will happen, but they look the same as the old GW pots and the old GW pots did that all the time.

Haha

I'd completely forgot that used to happen. I haven't had one break on me yet, perhaps because I take much better care of my paints now than I used to. When I was a kid I used to open them with my teeth, and slop paint over the edges of the pot, compromising the seal. The integrity of the lid was on a downward spiral from the start. Though I don't remember breaking that many. I certainly had one that snapped off and eventually cracked, but I think most of them lasted until the paint ran out, or I binned them. I'm not 100% certain if the plastic is 'exactly' the same. The modern lids feel a little less brittle than I remember, but I could easily be mistaken.

Dropper bottles have their issues too. They fall over all the time, the nozzle can get bunged up, and it's hard to see what is going on inside the pot. There are pros and cons with everything.

But when it comes to washes and using an airbrush (which I increasingly find myself using) I prefer droppers by a large margin, so in light of that I tend to go for dropper bottles first.

Yeah it's certainly more awkward transferring paints from a pot to the airbrush. That is one of the pros of dropper bottles. I tend to use the Vallejo premiums for airbrushing (which are like big 60ml dropper bottles), so it's not really something I have an issue with.