World eater virus vs hive ship

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**ahzek**

Hey all, was just wondering what the effect of unleashing the world eater virus on a tyranid hive ship.

Given the presence of atmosphere and biological matter the virus would have plenty of fuel, but I wasn't sure If the ship would react and absorb the virus

**Maximus Bitch**

Farsight tried something like that once, and was successful.

However, the Tyranids will most definitely adapt to it, rendering them immune.

**pm713**

It works the first time but after that they know what you're doing.

**Grey Templar**

The Imperium doesn't use the World Eater against Hive Ships because they will eventually develop an immunity. They only use it against worlds in the path of a tyranid fleet, so it burns out before they arrive, or against a world thats currently infested and they can ensure everything is killed.

In space, its too risky for something to survive and develop an immunity.

All Farsight did was render his bio-weapon useless next time he tries to use it.

**jhe90**

Far sights was a one shot weapon deal.

Yes such a weapon worked but next time they will have adapted.
Only a dark mechanicpus chaos infused nurgle infused deamon virus might be able to be a several shot weapon.

**Furyou Miko**

Planet-killer torpedoes are probably a safer bet.

**MeanGreenStompa**

""A fatal error, twas, listening to that damned old fool. We were carrying virus bombs for the planet below, but Hergol told us since we were in a jam, we might lauch a few at the things in space, only it didn't do a thing to em...

Well, so we thought until the damned things rammed us a week later and got hold of the ship. They spat this acid, this burning spittle everywhere, and within an hour, those that didn't die from the burns were sick as hell with the same virus we'd hurled at the beast to begin with.""

Battlefleet Gothic: Armada - Tyranid fleet entry background.

**chaos0xomega**

presumably virus bombs and world eater virus are two different things.

As a side note, Id think it would be quite impossible for the Tyranids to adapt to a World Eater Virus given that its stupidly fast-acting and also has the side effect of destroying itself along with any organic material in the process of doing its thing. Itd be hard to adapt to it without being able to get a genetic sample to adapt to.

Also, if the nids could adapt to it, they would have already considering how many times Kryptman and the =I= used it against Leviathan.

**pm713**

I thought virus bombs contained the world eater virus?

They don't need to adapt to the virus just to the delivery method.

**Coldstream**

Yeah, I'm not sure there would be much of an opportunity to adapt to the virus since it turns everything into a soup within minutes. Anything that theoretically survived infection would anyway be immune/resistant somehow.

**chaos0xomega**

pm713 wrote:
I thought virus bombs contained the world eater virus?

They don't need to adapt to the virus just to the delivery method.

Presumably not, considering that there were, at a time, 'virus grenades' which most certainly didn't end the planet.

As for adapting to the delivery method, if nids could do that, they would have, considering that the delivery method is standard missiles/torpedos/projectile weapons used throughout the Imperium on their warships. Beyond that, if they could adapt to *that* delivery method, why wouldn't they also adapt to bolters and lasguns?

Nids aren't Borg lol

**Co'tor Shas**

Essentailly, virus like this work, but you have to use a different one each time, or make it deadly enough that you get anything. Farsight's virus destoryed a minor hive fleet in a manner of hours. Even then, they tyranids probably still managed to get communication to other hive fleets or something. Such viruses need to be specially made for each individual group.

**Zuul**

Stupid question: How do they adapt if there are no survivors?

**Co'tor Shas**

They can't AFAIK. As I said, it has to be deadly enough to wipe out every singe one, completely. Even remains will allow the 'nids to adapt.

**Lotet**

Couldn't a high class of synapse creature send back information to a fleet?

chaos0xomega wrote:
As for adapting to the delivery method, if nids could do that, they would have, considering that the delivery method is standard missiles/torpedos/projectile weapons used throughout the Imperium on their warships. Beyond that, if they could adapt to *that* delivery method, why wouldn't they also adapt to bolters and lasguns?

Nids aren't Borg lol

Actually, one of the hive fleets adapted to make gaunts resistant to pulse rifles, amongst other things, the Tau had to keep changing strategies, including using the Kroot, otherwise they would be overrun. But apparently it isn't often worth the biomass to create pulse rifle resistant armour compared to more gaunts.

I wish they gave you the option to have gaunts with 4+ armour anyway.

**Grey Templar**

Given that Hive Fleet adaptation seems to stay within a particular fleet, it appears that Nids can't communicate adaptations over distance. They have to have direct contact for that.

**endlesswaltz123**

Yeah, the world eater virus is a particular type of virus bomb, not all virus bombs have it in them. Though, I think it is most effective within atmosphere, which is a possible reason whilst used, it isn't used exclusively to attack tyrannic fleets, as the only ship worth using the resource on is the hive ship, and they are HARD to get too, you'd have to expend a lot of ships in the battle to get a chance to use it.

**Psienesis**

... because in space, there's no vector for the virus to spread through. You can use it to kill 1 ship but... ok, so what?

Ship dies. Its goopy remains are floating in space. Other ships deploy Ripper swarms (adapted to work in space) to consume the biomass. Rippers also turn to goo. Hive fleet continues to send bio-morphs until eventual generation finds weakened virii it can analyze.

Vaccination is perfected 3 standard days after first exposure.

LifeEater Virus no longer an option against the Tyranid.

**Co'tor Shas**

Farsight's went from ship to ship.

**Psienesis**

Co'tor Shas wrote:
Farsight's went from ship to ship.

How?

**Quickjager**

Well multiple ships were absorbing the biomass of the planet. So they ALL got infected in the first place, it didn't really go from ship to ship.

Also I remember the Deathwatch having a anti-tyranid round; it ISN'T the world eater virus obviously, I just... can't... seem to remember the name at the mo.

**Psienesis**

Quickjager wrote:Well multiple ships were absorbing the biomass of the planet. So they ALL got infected in the first place, it didn't really go from ship to ship.

That makes a lot more sense.

The DW round is "mutagenic acid". Which is acid that mutates its chemical chain, apparently. Or their... Hellfire? There's another bug-killing round in there that uses some sort of incendiary substance, iirc.

**Ashiraya**

Hellfire rounds: Replaces the core and tip of the standard bolt round with a vial of mutagenic acid, and thousands of needles that fire into the target's flesh on impact, pumping the acid into the target. Developed specially to combat Tyranids, Hellfire Rounds have equally devastating results on other organic targets.

**Co'tor Shas**

Psienesis wrote:
Co'tor Shas wrote:
Farsight's went from ship to ship.

How?

The exact description is:

Over the course of the next few cycles, the world of Vior’los was stripped bare of every last
shred of biomass. The ribbed mouthparts of the hive fleets had descended to feed,
hungrily sucking up the rendered-down gruel of their conquests from the many digestion
pools below. Farsight and his commanders monitored the vile spectacle from high orbit.
As the twin flames of grief and anger twisted in his gut, O’shovah began to doubt the
course they had chosen. When he cast a questioning glance across to O’Vesa, the wizened
scientist just smiled and pointed back towards the bio-ships themselves.

Farsight saw nothing at first, but soon, a black stain began to spread across the chitinous
flanks of one of the Tyranid vessels. Within a matter of only a few moments, the affliction
had spread to a second ship, followed swiftly by another and then another, until none
were free of the malign tendrils. The bio-ships shuddered and writhed as the
discolouration blossomed outwards to cover them entirely. One by one, the fleshy Tyranid
vessels fell into themselves, rotting and falling away like a piece of fruit decomposing in a
matter of seconds. Before the hour was out, the bio-ships had disintegrated entirely.

The countermeasures the Earth caste had made, explained O’Vesa, had been a suite of
self-replicating poisons. The necrotising agents had been on time-delayed release in order
to ensure they were fully taken inside the hive fleet before activating. The vector of
transmission had been the bodies of the Earth caste scientists themselves; they had
imbibed the poisons as their last act upon Vior’los. Once their bodies were broken down
in the digestion pools, the bacterial codes they had locked within themselves infected the
air itself. As O’Vesa had hoped, the Tyranids had even stripped most of Vior’los’
atmosphere away to fuel their further conquests. In doing so, they had doomed
themselves to a swift and painful death.

**Psienesis**

So not exactly a space-born weapon. They poisoned the planet and the bugs ate it. That makes a lot more sense, as I said above, than delivering it via torpedo while in the void of space and then expecting it to somehow drift into other bugs.

**endlesswaltz123**

It's not really the point of the world eater virus though when used in space. They know it won't miraculously jump from ship to ship, the point is to use it to nuke the hive ship in one quick go. Once the hive ship is down, any organised hive response of the other ships is null, they just go feral in the way little nids do, in which case the fleet can just mop them up.

No Hive ship, no mass synapse. The only danger to this strategy is if it is combined with an invasion the nids are already partaking in, failure to take out the head bugs on the ground and they will just use the biomass of that planet to build the new hive ship. Still note, the synapse bugs on the ground would not be able to control the ships already in orbit though, so it really is as simple as take out the hive ship and nuke the planet, mop up the rest of the bug ships and viola, invasion stopped. Well, I say simple, like I mentioned earlier... Getting to within range of the hive ship to launch the virus is another thing entirely.

**Zuul**

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
It's not really the point of the world eater virus though when used in space. They know it won't miraculously jump from ship to ship, the point is to use it to nuke the hive ship in one quick go. Once the hive ship is down, any organised hive response of the other ships is null, they just go feral in the way little nids do, in which case the fleet can just mop them up.

No Hive ship, no mass synapse. The only danger to this strategy is if it is combined with an invasion the nids are already partaking in, failure to take out the head bugs on the ground and they will just use the biomass of that planet to build the new hive ship. Still note, the synapse bugs on the ground would not be able to control the ships already in orbit though, so it really is as simple as take out the hive ship and nuke the planet, mop up the rest of the bug ships and viola, invasion stopped. Well, I say simple, like I mentioned earlier... Getting to within range of the hive ship to launch the virus is another thing entirely.

IIRC the Deathwatch maintain a line of killships which utilize DAOT cloaking devices. They might be able to slip in undetected.

**ImAGeek**

chaos0xomega wrote:
pm713 wrote:
I thought virus bombs contained the world eater virus?

They don't need to adapt to the virus just to the delivery method.

pm713 wrote:
I thought virus bombs contained the world eater virus?

They don't need to adapt to the virus just to the delivery method.

Presumably not, considering that there were, at a time, 'virus grenades' which most certainly didn't end the planet.

As for adapting to the delivery method, if nids could do that, they would have, considering that the delivery method is standard missiles/torpedos/projectile weapons used throughout the Imperium on their warships. Beyond that, if they could adapt to *that* delivery method, why wouldn't they also adapt to bolters and lasguns?

Nids aren't Borg lol

Virus bombs do contain the World Eater virus, it's in HH books 3 and 4 about Istvaan 3. Horus' traitors used them then.

**Rysaer**

I did always wonder why they didn't booby trap planets to stop a tyranid invasion.

For example if you knew the nids were going to attack a system, instead of burning a world so they cannot gain from it, why not use it as bait, infect it with some horrible anti-nid virus and then let them have the planet.

The key problem would be eventual immunity to a virus or the nids becoming smart enough not to fall into the same traps.

I'm sure creating new viruses wouldn't be that difficult and even if it was you'd probably only get away with this trick a few times.

This could make for a pivotal turning point in a lot of conflicts, even if it didn't wipe them all out, you would have dealt a serious blow.

**ChazSexington**

Rysaer wrote:
I did always wonder why they didn't booby trap planets to stop a tyranid invasion.

For example if you knew the nids were going to attack a system, instead of burning a world so they cannot gain from it, why not use it as bait, infect it with some horrible anti-nid virus and then let them have the planet.

The key problem would be eventual immunity to a virus or the nids becoming smart enough not to fall into the same traps.

I'm sure creating new viruses wouldn't be that difficult and even if it was you'd probably only get away with this trick a few times.

This could make for a pivotal turning point in a lot of conflicts, even if it didn't wipe them all out, you would have dealt a serious blow.

Alpha Legion did something similar to some weird xenos. They inoculated their food (humans), killing 7% of a sector, but wiping out the xenos.