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Hey Dakka.

I'm thinking of starting CSM, but I want to ask a few questions since I've only done loyalist Marines and (barely) Orks & 'Crons.

The basis of this army is it's going to be my loyalist army in the future, meaning that they fall to Chaos in the end.
The main problem is that I don't know which god to go with. I kinda like the sound of all of them, but I definitely only want to go mono-god. Maybe not the best idea, but I'm set on that for fluff reasons.
The second problem is the codex: I don't want a repeat of my Orks. I bought them, then the new 'dex came out not too long after and it just felt like they got worse. Do you think I'd be better off waiting for the new 'dex, or just go with it? I do have the current codex.

On to the main part:
(I know "good" is relative to personal preference and such, but I mean in terms of their basic points cost and their stats. Feel free to add in personal opinions and experience of their performance too.)

HQ wise, I'm probably going to go with a Chaos Lord with the mark of whichever god I choose. Any equipments recommendations?
Fluffy-ness: my Chapter Master might become a Daemon Prince in the chaos army. Are they any good, or should I stick with a basic Chaos Lord?

Mutilators and Chaos Spawn: Are they good? Mutilators sound really nice for what they are.
As for Spawn: The amount of (potential) attacks + wounds + Toughness + Strength sound really good for their basic cost. But are they worth it?

Troops: I plan on using the Elites of the god I choose (If that makes sense). How good are each of these?

I also foresee the current trend of no force org shifting backfiring on me...

IA13.

So. Many. Wonderful. Toys.

Plus, unlikely to be radically altered in short order like a Codex may.

You're doing something similar to me (I'm doing late-Heresy/Scouring era Emp Children, so mixing Imperial and Chaos kits for looks and using the Legion scheme of purple, gold and white, rather than black and neon) and all I can really say is if longevity is a concern then don't go all in on one God, as while there are certain constants, the relative power balance tends to shift, so building a rounded collection is probably the way to go.

Currently though, Nurgle is the best way to go for competing for wins, Plague Marines are solid, and Nurgle Bikers incredibly tough.

Spawn are popular (not tried them myself) but Mutilators are, unfortunately, an assault unit with no easy way of getting into assault, and consequently not a great idea. Obliterators are currently one of the best units we have though.

For the love of the chaos gods do not buy the dv set

If you plan to use SM in the future then think about how your models can represent both Chaos and Loyalist.

Simply play Nurgle Plague Marines/SM Salamanders (green lizard scales could also pull off Alpha Legion. Nurgle marines would often use 2 meltas and Salamanders would use melta and multimeltas.

Or if you Chose to paint the army red, consider blood angles/khorne close combat marines. Can be done by pinning the jet packs onto the backs instead of gluing. Also you will be modeling each marine to have a chain sword/axe and a bolt pistol.

Ultra Marines Blue and gold are similar to Tzeentch color schemes. Try to incorporate blue and gold stripes to allow representation of Ultra Marines and Thousand sons. Space wolves also use a light blue and yellow scheme.

For Noise marines- try a marine chapter that uses purple. The sonic blasters can be represented by using the tiny exhaust heads from vehicle sprues of chaos to be glued onto the bolter rifle muzzel. You can also convert heavy bolters or missile launchers by using the dirge caster from rhino sprues.

Do not buy mauler and other daemon engines as you will not be able to play loyalist with them. So stick to vindicators and predators. Try to magnetize these expensive tanks to you can use either weapon options. Also, do not glue the top on rhinos, because you can use them as razorbacks. Just use pinning and or magnets to achieve this customization.

If you want many terminators consider Dark Angles Deathwing/ Chaos Obliterators. Many loyalist terminators will have power fists. Oblitz have power fists. Do not glue on the gun arm. Pin this arm so that you can swap it out for storm bolter/ mutated hodge podge of guns for oblitz.

If you do White Scars bikers, you can also do Nurgle Bikers. The nurgle chapter that uses white is The Blighted Ones. Although CSM does not have the attack bike, you can still collect them and use them when you go loyalist.

I hope this helps.

Also, if you want cultist then buy imperial guardsmen instead. That way you can have an imperial guard allies which allows vendettas and lrb.

Erm, I think you (or maybe it was me!) misread the OP dude, it isn't that he is using the same models, but that in the narrative of his army, he has a loyalist force for the 'now' but they will fall to chaos and this will be represented by a CSM force, so any games he plays as CSM will be set chronologically after any he plays as SM, but be representative of the same group of Marines.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Erm, I think you (or maybe it was me!) misread the OP dude, it isn't that he is using the same models, but that in the narrative of his army, he has a loyalist force for the 'now' but they will fall to chaos and this will be represented by a CSM force, so any games he plays as CSM will be set chronologically after any he plays as SM, but be representative of the same group of Marines.

Bingo.


I'm going to try to double up most of my stuff to save money though.
I'll check out IA13, too.
^_^
I'm sure someone in the store has a copy and doesn't mind me peeking.

My chaos forces will be keeping the scheme they have (Genestealer purple Daemon Prince!).

Nurgle Spawn are quick, fairly killy and decently hard to shift despite not having a save. T6 and 3W takes longer to plink off than you might think, especially if you can hug some cover or get them psychic buffs. They're probably the most cost efficient bodyguard for one of the best HQs in the codex (Nurgle lord on bike with PF/LC) since for a 180 pts you get 15 T6 wounds for your lord who can do some pretty heavy lifting in combat all by himself. Even better if you are using Crimson Slaughter and run your lord with Daemonheart and Slaughterer's Horns (NOTE: this load out is RAW illegal, however, my group does not mind it as RAI was fairly clear from what the gear is/non rules references in the codex).

As Azreal said, Plague Marines are solid too.

Snicth. Because he is the coolest one.

If you don't like Snitch, then Khorne, because he is the second coolest one.

I'm starting to lean towards Nurgle... But I will take Azrael's advice a rounded collection. I won't mark the models with any particular god, I'll just make it very clear to my opponent as well as having it noted on my roster. Reading the 'dex, Nurgle seems like he might be fun. Loving the psychic powers for Nurgle, too.

Taking another look over the Wargear section, I noticed the steeds of the gods. Are they worth taking, or are they too much of a sink?
All of the steeds individually, I mean. Might shift my ideas of a particular god.

Buying a Juggernaut for a Khorne Lord, giving him the Axe of Blind Fury and running him with a bodyguard of either spawn or bikes makes a great unit.

I'd go for a fast moving Lord or a winged DP.
A lumbering Lord would be a waste of points.

Spawn are awesome. They are auto include in every chaos list i write. Same with oblits. The daemon engines are pretty good with their built in invulnerable save and IWND and possession. The Heldrake is legendary.

Depends on what you want to get in the end. I like the infiltrating/outflanking blobs of 20 guyz. They work wonders. Especially with Cypher for H&R and Shrowded. Make them khornate and you've got a bunch of s5 attacks (s6 with Fabius Bile if you're crazy enough to make it work) on the charge and more reliable charge range. Make them Slaanesh and the 3+, 5+++ provides an almost 2+ level of durability for half the cost. And also, it's kind of meta stuff, but people tend to field less and less ap3 nowadays. It's either ROF or ap2. In the first case, just think of it - 3+ and FNP is 77.(7)% to make a safe. That's just 5,(5)% worse than 2+. On the guyz that cost less than 20 pts average after all the upgrades. If it's ap2 - you've still got fnp and shrowded if there's Cypher in there. If it's high str ap2 - they're wasting high str shots on marines and not spawns, maulerfiends, landraiders, etc.

However, if you want a truly offensive force, you got to focus on it. Just the same as with orkses. Luckily, there are decent fast offensive options all around the book. But CSM lack ranged support. Backline oblits, havoks, preds and forgefiends aren't bad but that's not even close to the ammount of firepower you might want for backline shooters. CSM work better the closer you get.

Or you could focus on board controle. CSM in rhinos might seem worse than their loyalist counterparts but paired with cheap spawns, still - great heldrakes and extremely annoying deepstriking nurgle-oblits, csm suit to this role either.

If you definitely want a pure Chaos Space Marine army that MUST be a mono god then I strongly suggest Nurgle with the actual codex, even though it's the one I like the least from a fluffy point of view
Of course the risk of "throwing" everything away with the next one is not to be dismissed.

This is because at the moment, if you do not consider things that cannot be marked (such as Heldrakes and vehicles in general), amongst the best units in the codex you can find:

- Chaos Spawn: that is by far the best unit in the codex and that ceases to have any meaning without Mark of Nurgle (IMHO)
- Obliterator: I'm not that fond of them as most of the CSM players do, but they are of course a solid choice. MoN is also a must here, otherwise they are insta-killed by anything that is S8 and S9. Also makes them really resilient against small arms fire
- Chaos Lord: there are many solid choices with them, if only there were an efficient and cheap way to give them EW... Mark of Nurgle with Bike (T6), PowerFist + Lightning Claw, Sigil of Corruption is my preferred version

 Ond Angel wrote:
Hey Dakka.

I'm thinking of starting CSM, but I want to ask a few questions since I've only done loyalist Marines and (barely) Orks & 'Crons.

The basis of this army is it's going to be my loyalist army in the future, meaning that they fall to Chaos in the end.
The main problem is that I don't know which god to go with. I kinda like the sound of all of them, but I definitely only want to go mono-god. Maybe not the best idea, but I'm set on that for fluff reasons.
The second problem is the codex: I don't want a repeat of my Orks. I bought them, then the new 'dex came out not too long after and it just felt like they got worse. Do you think I'd be better off waiting for the new 'dex, or just go with it? I do have the current codex.

On to the main part:
(I know "good" is relative to personal preference and such, but I mean in terms of their basic points cost and their stats. Feel free to add in personal opinions and experience of their performance too.)

HQ wise, I'm probably going to go with a Chaos Lord with the mark of whichever god I choose. Any equipments recommendations?
Fluffy-ness: my Chapter Master might become a Daemon Prince in the chaos army. Are they any good, or should I stick with a basic Chaos Lord?

Mutilators and Chaos Spawn: Are they good? Mutilators sound really nice for what they are.
As for Spawn: The amount of (potential) attacks + wounds + Toughness + Strength sound really good for their basic cost. But are they worth it?

Troops: I plan on using the Elites of the god I choose (If that makes sense). How good are each of these?

I also foresee the current trend of no force org shifting backfiring on me...

Chaos Lord on bike is always solid, has been since 4th Edition at least. being super tough matters. Personally, the Black Legion Biker Lord with an Eye of Night has been lights out awesome for me.

Mutilators? My blog has several posts about my use of Mutilators you can check out. But I use them in my Night Lords List. Spawn are also very decent, especially if Snaanesh and accompanied with the Steed of Slaanesh commander.

As for elites: I use Mutilators so for me, the elites are hunky dorey.

Diablix wrote:

- Obliterator: I'm not that fond of them as most of the CSM players do, but they are of course a solid choice. MoN is also a must here, otherwise they are insta-killed by anything that is S8 and S9. Also makes them really resilient against small arms fire

Not exactly a must....Snitch Oblits with a 50% Invul chance IMO are very, very nice, though I agree MoN Oblits are probably the most competitive choice for that unit.

Steeds are good, I feel that Khorne and Tzeentch are the best when it comes to steeds. Khorne for all his listed stat boosts, Tzeentch for the speed, +1 attack, +1 toughness thanks to jetbike, and the speed that can come in handy if you decide to have him off on his own (fairly survivable with T5 and 3++).