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My tourney list:

2+ Rerollable Autarch
Jetseer

Avenger Serpent
Avenger Serpent

Fire Dragon Serpent

Crimson Hunter Exarch

Wraithknight


My casual list:

2+ Rerollable Autarch
Jetseer

Avenger Serpent
Avenger Serpent

Fire Dragon Serpent

Crimson Hunter Exarch

Wraithknight

If your not having fun because the other player is full of feth and in a friendly tournament, nothing wrong with wanting to win. Unless you upset the other player not because they lost, because you were rude and took the fun away its a game don't take it that seriously.

Blacksails, you are 100 percent correct and I agree with you. The problem is that lines tend to be drawn in the sand between "power" and "fun" when the two are not mutually exclusive at all. Even a tiny bit of communication would solve most of the 'imbalance issues' people find in their games. A great example is a daemon prince with the black mace and the eldar seer council. A guy a frequently play in both "small" (3000) points and large games (6000+) won't take a seer council unless we're playing 6000+ and I'm happy about that. He hates a prince with the mace, so I won't bring that to smaller games either (I'm actually trying to hold off on using a daemon prince at all now that my chaos marines have their own gaming history and backstory until one of my guys acend during a game, but all I seem to get is spawns...). However we also hate facing the scorpion's pheonix lord and noice champions with doom sirens respectively, but we hate facing them because their tough but not "overpowered", so we both still use them and just smile when the other pisses and moans.

I fully recognise that bringing underpowered lists is just as bad as overpowered (if not worse), I just wanted to point out that I think the origional poster was mostly trying to figure out ways to communicate list expectations better in the future, rather than just rant and rave about the guys who brought lists he didn't like.

People play these lists in a tournament because the rules say they can and they make sense for a true attempt at a win.
I personally like variety in my models or the army is boring, the way the meta is now it is a foolish choice if trying for a win.

As pointed out, if you created the best optimized list for a true attempt at a win: would you not have fun against the same lists (=challenge)?

My "fun" is a close game.
Taking on a competitive player is excellent and my list and play better be sharp.
A "fluff bunny" player can still be fun, I get to field a more "balanced" force and get to try out interesting tactics.
WAAC players just bring a more personal level of play, I have to feel rather indulgent or "bait" them to watch them lose their minds... good times.

Just field the best the rules allow for a tournament, competition at this level allows for little else.
Find your fun in making the models exceptional in assembly, basing and painting.
Know your rules well and be prepared for the "gray zone" / controversial rules being messed with.
I have found the digital books VERY helpful for word searches to speed things along, or put tabs in key areas of your physical copies.

My two cents, there is little reason to get upset with people that have a different view of "fun".
It IS all about having fun since this is our leisure time.

kungfujew wrote:
Blacksails, you are 100 percent correct and I agree with you. The problem is that lines tend to be drawn in the sand between "power" and "fun" when the two are not mutually exclusive at all. Even a tiny bit of communication would solve most of the 'imbalance issues' people find in their games.

Right, power and fun, or competitive and fluffy are often used as opposite ends of a scale, when they're really not. Competitive can be fluffy, and non-competitive can be non-fluffy. Some people forgot that when they're staring across from a Wave Serpent list.

Communication wouldn't solve the underlying issues of the imbalance, it would just solve the problem of players ending up in bad matches. The imbalance would still be there, only now you'd have tiers of players that won't play other players because of bad list match ups. Unfortunately, that only breeds a poor gaming atmosphere.

I fully recognise that bringing underpowered lists is just as bad as overpowered (if not worse), I just wanted to point out that I think the origional poster was mostly trying to figure out ways to communicate list expectations better in the future, rather than just rant and rave about the guys who brought lists he didn't like.

Yeah, I get that. The OP just went about the wrong way.