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Alright so no there I was reading my AM codex for the 15th time and it came to me. Man, these enginseers are pretty amazing. I can give power of the machine spirit to a lot of my vehicles. Hell i could even fire two manticore missiles in one turn..... then it dawned on me. A silly idea that would most likely never come to fruitation but here it is:

Can power of the machine spirit work to fire a deathstrike missile on turn 1?

PotMS: In a turn in which the vehicle neither moves Flat Out nor uses smoke launchers, the vehicle can fire one more weapon at its full Ballistic Skill than normally permitted. In addition, this weapon can be fired at a different target unit to any other weapons, subject to the normal rules for shooting.

The Deathstrike Missile Launcher may not fire on the first turn of the game, or if it has moved earlier in the turn it wishes to fire. In the Shooting phase, if you wish to fire the Deathstrike Missile, roll a D6 with the following modifiers:

• Each full, consecutive game turn in which the Deathstrike Missile Launcher has not moved: +1.
• Each Weapon Destroyed result applied to the Deathstrike Missile itself: -1.

If the result is a 4 or more, the Deathstrike missile can be fired. Note that a natural roll of a 6 will always result in the missile firing, regardless of negative modifiers

The rules for the deathstrike state it cannot be fired turn 1 and that it does its little count down shenanigans. However, the above rule says I can fire it at full bs when not normally permitted. Please defeat my argument so I can move on to bigger and more sane ideas.

Cheers!

You may not fire it turn one. Find a specific rule to override that.

You may fire one more weapon than normal. A manticore firing twice is not one more weapon.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
You may not fire it turn one. Find a specific rule to override that.

You may fire one more weapon than normal. A manticore firing twice is not one more weapon.

Define a weapon then. The manticore doesn't have a weapon to fire in that case.

 Tomb King wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
You may not fire it turn one. Find a specific rule to override that.

You may fire one more weapon than normal. A manticore firing twice is not one more weapon.

Define a weapon then. The manticore doesn't have a weapon to fire in that case.

Sure they do, however that has little to do with the Deathstrike firing T1. It cannot. PotMS does not override that.

 Tomb King wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
You may not fire it turn one. Find a specific rule to override that.

You may fire one more weapon than normal. A manticore firing twice is not one more weapon.

Define a weapon then. The manticore doesn't have a weapon to fire in that case.

You're missing an important distinction in the rules:

... the vehicle can fire one more weapon at its full Ballistic Skill than normally permitted...

What 'normally' determines what weapons a vehicle is permitted to fire? How far a vehicle moves is what determines what weapons a vehicle can normally fire. PotMS allows the vehicle to fire one more weapon that couldn't have been fired because the vehicle moved too far. It has no effect on any other reason (weapon destroyed, etc).

 Ghaz wrote:

 Tomb King wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
You may not fire it turn one. Find a specific rule to override that.

You may fire one more weapon than normal. A manticore firing twice is not one more weapon.

Define a weapon then. The manticore doesn't have a weapon to fire in that case.

You're missing an important distinction in the rules:

... the vehicle can fire one more weapon at its full Ballistic Skill than normally permitted...

What 'normally' determines what weapons a vehicle is permitted to fire? How far a vehicle moves is what determines what weapons a vehicle can normally fire. PotMS allows the vehicle to fire one more weapon that couldn't have been fired because the vehicle moved too far. It has no effect on any other reason (weapon destroyed, etc).

My arguments on my second post was for the manticore. Can the manticore fire two missiles in one turn with PotMS?

No, the manticore missile is a single weapon that can be fire 4 times.
POTMS lets you fire an extra weapon, not one weapon twice.

 grendel083 wrote:
No, the manticore missile is a single weapon that can be fire 4 times.
POTMS lets you fire an extra weapon, not one weapon twice.

A Manticore Rocket Launcher carries a rack of four rockets. Only a single rocket can be fired by a Manticore Rocket Launcher in each of the Manticore’s Shooting phases. Furthermore, until it has been used, each rocket counts as a separate weapon when determining Weapon Destroyed results.

Exactly, those are rules quoted from a single weapon.
Only for the purpose of Weapon Destroyed is it counted as separate.
A weapon cannot be fired twice without some form of special rule. Which machine spirit doesn't have.

 grendel083 wrote:
Exactly, those are rules quoted from a single weapon.
Only for the purpose of Weapon Destroyed is it counted as separate.
A weapon cannot be fired twice without some form of special rule. Which machine spirit doesn't have.

Check the wargear section of a manticore. The manticore rocket launcher in the above sentence is referring to the vehicle. No such weapon exist. The only war gear is Storm Eagle Rockets, in which it has 4 of them.

RANGED WEAPONS:

STORM EAGLE ROCKETS
Each storm eagle rocket delivers multiple high explosive warheads into the heart of enemy formations.
Storm eagle rockets cannot fire directly.
Range - 24-120"
S - 10
AP - 4
Type - Ordnance D3, Barrage, Large Blast

Limited ammunition is a special rule of the manticore. Stopping it from firing more then one a turn.

In either case, each weapon has a specific restriction that it may not fire. The Deathstrike (or Manticore) is more specific than the PotMS, therefore their restrictions apply.

From Codex Astra Militarum:

WARGEAR: Heavy bolter, searchlight, smoke launchers, storm eagle rockets.

SPECIAL RULES:
Limited Ammunition: A Manticore Rocket Launcher carries a rack of four rockets. Only a single rocket can be fired by a Manticore Rocket Launcher in each of the Manticore’s Shooting phases. Furthermore, until it has been used, each rocket counts as a separate weapon when determining Weapon Destroyed results. Make a note each time a rocket is fired or destroyed; once the Manticore Rocket Launcher has fired all of its rockets it has run out of ammunition and cannot be fired again.

So 'storm eagle rockets' is a single weapon, otherwise it would be written as 'storm eagle rocket (x4)' or 'four storm eagle rockets'.

 Ghaz wrote:
From Codex Astra Militarum:

WARGEAR: Heavy bolter, searchlight, smoke launchers, storm eagle rockets.

SPECIAL RULES:
Limited Ammunition: A Manticore Rocket Launcher carries a rack of four rockets. Only a single rocket can be fired by a Manticore Rocket Launcher in each of the Manticore’s Shooting phases. Furthermore, until it has been used, each rocket counts as a separate weapon when determining Weapon Destroyed results. Make a note each time a rocket is fired or destroyed; once the Manticore Rocket Launcher has fired all of its rockets it has run out of ammunition and cannot be fired again.

So 'storm eagle rockets' is a single weapon, otherwise it would be written as 'storm eagle rocket (x4)' or 'four storm eagle rockets'.

Failing to see how that helped that argument...
Storm Eagle Rocket = 1
Storm Eagle Rockets = more then 1
Limited Ammunition: States there are four of them and that they are different weapons that are gone once fired and/or destroyed.

Are any of the above statements false?

'Storm eagle rockets' is a single weapon. The 's' at the end of rockets does not make it more than one. Using PotMS to try and fire more than one rocket would be firing the same weapon twice.

What's the point of telling us "... each rocket counts as a separate weapon when determining Weapon Destroyed results..." if each is actually a separate weapon?

Yes. They only count as separate weapons for the purpose of weapon destroyed. Is this weapon destroyed? No? Guess it's not a different weapon then.

Read the whole of the rule, not just the bits you think support your stance....

If it's one weapon or 4, really doesn't matter, PoTMS still can't be used to fire a second in a turn.
The limited ammuntion rule covers that.

What unit in the AM codex gives POTMS? I want to talk to my AM playing friend about it.

Crazy Jay wrote:
What unit in the AM codex gives POTMS? I want to talk to my AM playing friend about it.

The Enginseers.

 Tomb King wrote:
Man, these enginseers are pretty amazing. I can give power of the machine spirit to a lot of my vehicles.