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I'm giving GW the benefit of the doubt on this one that the goal is just to re-base all marines (and a couple of units from multiple armies) so they look more imposing on the tabletop. Bases aren't ridiculously priced so I don't see this as a big revenue generator, although I'm puzzled why they wouldn't offer these in any location other than direct.

And like crimson said, 32mm is the size of the flying base, so it's not something entirely new.

rollawaythestone wrote:

 tydrace wrote:

 The Power Cosmic wrote:
The round-edged bases used by many other companies are 30mm, 40mm, and 50mm (plus 120mm for the huge stuff). I don't think it's too large of a leap to suppose that's why GW didn't choose 30mm.

Actually, I think they picked 32mm because it's almost in the middle between 25mm and 40mm.

This. They can't do a 32.5 mm base (well, they could), so they round down to 32 for symmetry.

1.25 inches is 31.75mm. I would guess that GW have gone for a "metric" 1.25" the same way the 25mm base is a rounded-off 1-inch base.

For the people who plan on rebasing their models: have you considered that you'll also probably need to devise new transport for your models? I know my foam trays are obsessively planned; any changes to base size of my models would make all my foam useless and I'd probably need at least one extra tray for every three or four that I have now.

Ha! Now we see this dastardly plot for what it truly is: a plan to make us buy MORE foam trays!

Which gw doesn't sell individually, only in complete cases...

I see what you did gw, gg.

For any UK gamers in need of trays, try Figures in Comfort.

No, no, it's table creep! This is the beginning of a shift towards 5'x7' tables, then BAM sales of the new ROB table skyrocket.

Okay, speaking absolutely crazy stuff here, but what if the painters who did the models in WD were told that larger bases are just more scenic so use them for illustration pieces or didn't have any 25mm on hand and thought "eh, what does it matter" or I don't know, it was an accident? Some new guy thought "man, these smaller ones look too small, i take one size bigger" ?

It's not the change in base size that bothers me (though overhang has been an issue for decades, why couldn't they do this like 20 years ago?).

It's (much like the ET Softbacks) GW being too....incompetent or naïve....to get out in front of it and say "this is what we're doing and why, now you guys can go make an informed choice about what you want to do with your models".

Is all of 40k moving to 32mm? Just MEQ?

I want to do a HH SoH army, for me, considering the money involved in such a project, it's an important consideration.

 Kosake wrote:
Okay, speaking absolutely crazy stuff here, but what if the painters who did the models in WD were told that larger bases are just more scenic so use them for illustration pieces or didn't have any 25mm on hand and thought "eh, what does it matter" or I don't know, it was an accident? Some new guy thought "man, these smaller ones look too small, i take one size bigger" ?

Then that guy showed us how god-emperor dumb we have been for using tiny bases for models who clearly needed a bigger one

I really love how ANYTHING GW ever does must be for malicious reasons and to screw their customers over. I swear, if you people had your way, GW would be on the Terrorist Watch List.

Heck, even when they flat out say that people don't need to rebase all their miniatures and that this was done because the Space Marines don't fit on the 25mm base very well (AND THEY DON'T! FFS PEOPLE!), people STILL don their aluminum foil hats and claim that GW MUST be lying have some sort of nefarious plot to take a dump in your Cheerios.

Don't get me wrong, GW has done some things that can't be defended (the least of which is their price gouging), but seriously, people are actively looking for reasons to hate on them.

@casvalremdeikun: I agree but GW has done so many batgak crazy things that people begin to question their intent at every step and I can't blame them since we've had the arrival of micro-transactions and other nonsense that was/could/should have been made available for free, as well as all the other nonsense they've pulled over the last 5 years or so. For me I think it's a bit of a Hanlon's Razor "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

All this could have been sorted by a nice little message in White Dwarf or on their website 'You may have noticed...'. I agree that the more dynamic Marines have gotten the more the 25mm bases look silly and are in a way impractical but for me this whole 'saga' just shows how out of touch GW is with at least a fair portion of its gaming community. If it's an aesthetic choice then the new sets should come with both 25mm and 32mm bases - I'm guessing they won't which would be stupid but we'll wait and see.

 Crimson wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
If you bothered to read my whole post, you would understand my point is that, in time, if all marines use the new base, how will you prove to a tournament organizer that your marines with 25mm bases were bought before the change?

You can't and no sane person would ask you to do so.

Yeah. The current (fully plastic) marines have been around in some form or another since 3rd edition. 24 Years ago.

feth, I'm getting old.

 Azazelx wrote:

Yeah. The current (fully plastic) marines have been around in some form or another since 3rd edition. 24 Years ago.

Third edition was in 1998, 'only' sixteen years.

 Accolade wrote:
Bases aren't ridiculously priced so I don't see this as a big revenue generator.

NEWSFLASH!!! GW MINTS .50 PIECES MADE OF BLACK PLASTIC AT A COST OF PENNIES!
GW STOCKS SPIKE TO ALL TIME HIGH AS EXISTING CUSTOMERS BUY MIILLIONS TO RE-BASE MODELS!!!

Yes, GW will make no money on this. Nope, none at all. The margins are going to be so horrible on these bases that GW wouldn't possibly consider making even more new bases/changing other models to different bases, because the design, mold tooling, and production of bases is one of the most time consuming and cost-intensive things that GW does. Oh, wait...

What are those new 50mm bases on the GW site for? I don't recall them being there so long ago, nor many models using them, but those Tyranid Warriors in the Shield of Baal: Deathstorm set do seem to be on bases that are just the tiniest bit more "roomy", don't they? Surely GW wouldn't want people to spend $4.95 to re-base just three models, would they? And what base is that Carnifex in the Shield of Baal: Deathstorm set now on? I dare say it no longer appears to be as round, or as small as it once was. Surely GW wouldn't expect anyone to spend $4.95 to re-base just one model, would they?

The 32mm bases are the tip of the wallet -impaling iceberg, and even if people have the wallet out of their back pockets, they will still not escape unscathed due to the special rules for the Iceberg of Buggering. Unless, of course, people simply decide that they are not going to re-base any of their models, which they may very well do. The first company that makes alternative 32mm bases in plastic, in this style, and doesn't charge .50 cents EACH for them, will sell lots. The other size bases won't likely be made in plastic by anyone, but the resin base companies will take their bite of that soon enough as well, because it is a simple enough thing to take larger existing bases and simply mill them down to 32mm (or whatever other size they require) and make new molds. They are probably already at work on it.

And of course this is just PHASE 1. PHASE 2 will be in the form of leaked pics of a new Tactical Squad box about which people will comment, "Hmm. Those are definitely new Tactical Squad models...but they seem to have accidentally based them on 25mm bases instead of 32mm bases. What bunch of morons!", to which some rumor-monger will reply, "Those aren't 25mm bases. ".

...and then all hell really will break loose.

angryboy2k wrote:

1.25 inches is 31.75mm. I would guess that GW have gone for a "metric" 1.25" the same way the 25mm base is a rounded-off 1-inch base.

For the people who plan on rebasing their models: have you considered that you'll also probably need to devise new transport for your models? I know my foam trays are obsessively planned; any changes to base size of my models would make all my foam useless and I'd probably need at least one extra tray for every three or four that I have now.

Ha! Now we see this dastardly plot for what it truly is: a plan to make us buy MORE foam trays!

Math to the rescue! That makes alot of sense.

I also agree on the trays. it will make a significant difference to anyone using 25mm/1inch wide or deep trays cavities. However, I think most folks are already putting their marines in cavities that are 1.25 or 1.5 inches deep and wide.

As for myself, I make custom trays with 1 inch round cavities, that hold the minis upright so there's no way I'd be using my existing trays with these bases.

Yeah, there's essentially no design cost; it's a flat disc with a sloped edge, just like the 25mm CAD file they've got but enlarged to 32mm.

The mould will be trivial to make as well, in terms of cutting time because it's 1 part with no fancy detail.

These bases will be getting banged out at well under $0.01 each, sold in bags of 10 for $4.95. That probably leaves $4.90 per bag to cover the bag (~$0.01), the cardboard topper (~$0.05) and the labour of packing and boxing them (?? Call it $0.50).

So we're at about $0.75 to get to a shipping box of them, even 100% distribution markup and 100% retail markup only puts them at $3.

They per-unit cost of the design and mould will be essentially nothing, because of the huge production run involved, since each base size will be amortized across dozens of SKUs.

I'd go so far as to say that plastic bases are the most profitable item GW sells, on a percentage per item basis. Way ahead of even e-books.

As a cynic who expects them to shaft their customers, changing bases is potentially the easiest way to make a lot of money quickly.

That said, with the scale creep and heroic poses, some units could do with bigger bases to deal with overhang/balance issues.

Edit: there are companies selling 10x 30mm plastic bases for £1 (~$1.50) and still making a profit, but without GW's scale. That's over 200% GW tax.

does anyone here play d&d?

remember what happened when fourth edition came out?

yeah, we all kept playing 3rd edition!


i do the same with 40k (30k for me - ordo reductor rules!) we play 6th edition with the apocalypse expansion.

do the same with the bases - dont give them any mind.

maybe we should all get a little more bloody-minded about picking an edition/base size and sticking with it - im fed up of a new rulebook coming out every two-or-so years

I am starting a Chaos Space Marine army this holiday, and I was alarmed by all of this base stuff. I wanted to go ahead and use the new base size if that's what things were switchign to. So I emailed customer service about it because the link on the GW webstore was broken, and here's what I got:

"These bases are intended to be used for Space Marines, and other Space Marine sized miniatures.

If you wanted to re-base your Chaos army onto these bases, then this would be absoloutley [sic] fine."

They stated that IF you WANTED to re-base your miniatures, that would be fine. I take that as "it's optional." Seeing as I'm just starting out (and haven't even bought any miniatures yet), I'm going to go ahead and use these larger bases. It'll give me more space for scenic stuff.

Personally, I'm excited and I think these will look good. The new Putrid Blightkings for WFB look fantastic on their 40mm bases. It gives them plenty of room to look dynamic and add fancy base stuff.

This whole thing is massively confusing as someone who just got back into the hobby in the last couple months.

I'm already pissed off enough that I was told I'd have to re-base my old metal Terminators onto 40mm bases if I want to actually play with them, what a joke.

I'm just about to paint and base around 55 marine models, and have already created bases for about 40 orks. So... If I get told in 6 months time I'm gonna have to re-base them for them to be game legal I'm not gonna be super happy.

People are still running around with Wraithguard and even Terminators on the small bases. Is not the rule for basing that you get to use whatever base the model was shipped with?

I've never seen anything that would indicate GW would expect and demand all players to rebase their models. In fact, everything indicates that GW doesn't care, at all, how you play the game.

it may be optional now, but when 8th Ed arrives I think all bets will be off.

They haven't required base changes before... Generally GW doesn't care about bases affect games.

I have seem it mentioned on the interweb that the plan by GW is that they will make it compulsory for models to use these bases if involved in official GW games... given that most of their stores are 1 man stores (no room to play) and they don't run tournaments any more I can't see how this would have an impact

 Wolfstan wrote:
I have seem it mentioned on the interweb that the plan by GW is that they will make it compulsory for models to use these bases if involved in official GW games... given that most of their stores are 1 man stores (no room to play) and they don't run tournaments any more I can't see how this would have an impact

Citation needed.

 Colpicklejar wrote:
In fact, everything indicates that GW doesn't care, at all, how you play the game.

The base size does have an impact though, in terms of figures you can get into base contact, for spacing and blasts etc. So whilst GW doesn't care, your opponent or TO might if it seems you're using nonstandard bases for advantage. And since GW store turnover is huge you'll likely start getting hassle for using the wrong bases on older stuff if you're ever in.

I don't think it's that big a deal though, and can be fixed by the spacer rings already available.

The_A_Drain wrote:
This whole thing is massively confusing as someone who just got back into the hobby in the last couple months.

I'm already pissed off enough that I was told I'd have to re-base my old metal Terminators onto 40mm bases if I want to actually play with them, what a joke.

I'm just about to paint and base around 55 marine models, and have already created bases for about 40 orks. So... If I get told in 6 months time I'm gonna have to re-base them for them to be game legal I'm not gonna be super happy.

If anyone told you to debase your metal terminators than that's a local/tourney thing. GW have never required that.

People need to start reading instead of writing page long incoherent rants trying to show how clever and cynical they are.

Herzlos wrote:
So whilst GW doesn't care, your opponent or TO might if it seems you're using nonstandard bases for advantage.

If your opponent or TO are getting more worked up over this than GW itself, your opponent or TO need to chill.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

The_A_Drain wrote:


I'm already pissed off enough that I was told I'd have to re-base my old metal Terminators onto 40mm bases if I want to actually play with them, what a joke.

Um... you don't need to re-base old Terminators.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I really love how ANYTHING GW ever does must be for malicious reasons and to screw their customers over. I swear, if you people had your way, GW would be on the Terrorist Watch List.

Heck, even when they flat out say that people don't need to rebase all their miniatures and that this was done because the Space Marines don't fit on the 25mm base very well (AND THEY DON'T! FFS PEOPLE!), people STILL don their aluminum foil hats and claim that GW MUST be lying have some sort of nefarious plot to take a dump in your Cheerios.

Don't get me wrong, GW has done some things that can't be defended (the least of which is their price gouging), but seriously, people are actively looking for reasons to hate on them.

And that's precisely what happens when you burn up all of the good will your customers have towards you whilst still acting antagonistically towards your customers, retailers,and fans. I certainly don't think the decisions GW makes are malicious or out to "screw" their customers. They are acting as a company that is, albeit in a very ham-fisted way, attempting to maximize their profits. That is modern corporate capitalism at its finest. Nothing nefarious, but I am not longer willing to give them the slightest benefit of doubt.

It reminds me of a story of when my boss was offered the choice of sticking with her original retirement plan or the one that her employer *swore* would be better for her... If your have a lot of good will towards the employer, you might be willing to trust them. But if they've given you reason to doubt, you'd better look carefully! My boss did, and she stuck with her previous plan and will be far, far, far better off when she retires because of it.

Valete,

JohnS

 shabbadoo wrote:
The first company that makes alternative 32mm bases in plastic, in this style, and doesn't charge .50 cents EACH for them, will sell lots.

Well, for what it's worth, these are obviously not exactly the same diameter but the UK, at least, has had 30mm chamfer-edge non-PP/lipped/tractor-tire plastic bases available for a while. EM4, Heresy, Hasslefree etc. etc. Basically anyone who gets their base stock from dice.co.uk. I've played around with a few meself:



Look, Fenris even does resin ones.

 pretre wrote:

 Wolfstan wrote:
I have seem it mentioned on the interweb that the plan by GW is that they will make it compulsory for models to use these bases if involved in official GW games... given that most of their stores are 1 man stores (no room to play) and they don't run tournaments any more I can't see how this would have an impact

Citation needed.

Not sure if it qualifies as a Citation but this was my source: http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/tgn-editorial-the-new-32/

 Wolfstan wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 Wolfstan wrote:
I have seem it mentioned on the interweb that the plan by GW is that they will make it compulsory for models to use these bases if involved in official GW games... given that most of their stores are 1 man stores (no room to play) and they don't run tournaments any more I can't see how this would have an impact

Citation needed.

Not sure if it qualifies as a Citation but this was my source: http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/tgn-editorial-the-new-32/

"Some guys idea" doesn't really qualify as an official source. There is no more fact in that editorial than there is in this very thread, possibly less.

 Vermis wrote:

 shabbadoo wrote:
The first company that makes alternative 32mm bases in plastic, in this style, and doesn't charge .50 cents EACH for them, will sell lots.

Well, for what it's worth, these are obviously not exactly the same diameter but the UK, at least, has had 30mm chamfer-edge non-PP/lipped/tractor-tire plastic bases available for a while. EM4, Heresy, Hasslefree etc. etc. Basically anyone who gets their base stock from dice.co.uk. I've played around with a few meself:

Spoiler:

http://www.cheddarmongers.org/prod/pic/Vermis/Fantasy/

Look, Fenris even does resin ones.

Not to penalize you for not reading a lengthly thread, but it has already been noted that 30mm (both lipped and chisel sided) are widely available from places like EM4.