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Now while you have Astartes consigned to Dreadnought armour to battle for millennia I have seen mention of normal Space Marines getting old and retiring effectively to teaching positions for the Scouts and what not.

But what constitutes old for these genetic freaks? I ask because for my home brew chapter I want the Chief Librarian to be old, like really old, so old that only a few Dreadnoughts remember as far back as him to a great disaster in the chapter's past - which I'm saying happened about 800-1000 years ago? Is this too much?

Only in death does duty end!

Dante is the oldest marine with 1100 years old and going strong, as long as you stay under that it should be okey.

There is no such thing as retirement for a Space Marine. Scout Sergeants IIRC just choose to stay behind most of the time and not advance further.

But Astartes just fight till they die.

Fair enough, thanks guys.

As I recall one of the Ultramarine novels had a retired marine who was too injured to fight but not good enough for a Dreadnought.

In certain cases, injury will render a Space Marine not combat-ready, in which case they take on administrative or advisory/planning roles with the Chapter Master, but they never stop being Space Marines. There is no "off duty" period or a time when they hang up the bolter and power armor and go spend their days fishing and reading Imperial Digest.

Amoras wrote:
Only in death does duty end!

Dante is the oldest marine with 1100 years old and going strong, as long as you stay under that it should be okey.

Technically Bjorn is the oldest

200-250 yrs is "standard" age (lose your edge and get killed?), Pedro = 350 yrs, Cassius = 400 yrs, Logan = 700 yrs, Ulrik = 900 yrs, Dante = 1100 yrs.
Overall, after many searches it is largely expected the "scythe of war" is the typical "retirement".

The next closest thing to retirement is if a marine is maimed to a point of not meeting minimum combat effectiveness.
They tend to then be put in charge of a team of vassals maintaining / outfitting the chapter depending on their skillset.

I would suggest for the upper end of old for a librarian custom chapter, somewhere around 700 to 900 years.
If you make him older than Ulrik he may take offence.

 Psienesis wrote:
In certain cases, injury will render a Space Marine not combat-ready, in which case they take on administrative or advisory/planning roles with the Chapter Master, but they never stop being Space Marines. There is no "off duty" period or a time when they hang up the bolter and power armor and go spend their days fishing and reading Imperial Digest.

training too potentially, any marine who has amassed several hundred years of service will have alot of wisdom, information and skills to pass on.
invaluable information hard earned like a weakness in xeno anatomy, or other such things learned over there long lives.

Yep, exactly. There's always a use for a Space Marine. That's basically why Dreadnoughts exist. Even though they may be little more than a sack of organs and a semi-functional brain, they won't let the poor bastard die and instead stick him in a walking tank.

 Psienesis wrote:
reading Imperial Digest.

haha that made me laugh

 Talizvar wrote:
I would suggest for the upper end of old for a librarian custom chapter, somewhere around 700 to 900 years.
If you make him older than Ulrik he may take offence.

I'll be polite and make him 800.

You probably should also consider what is the parent Legion of your chapter. Blood Angles are said to be longer lived than other marines, so Dante is not a good benchmark for non-BA marines. Chaplain Cassius of Ultramarines is considered ancient and he is under 400 years old.

 Crimson wrote:
You probably should also consider what is the parent Legion of your chapter. Blood Angles are said to be longer lived than other marines, so Dante is not a good benchmark for non-BA marines. Chaplain Cassius of Ultramarines is considered ancient and he is under 400 years old.

No one actually knows when marines die naturally anyways, Since they never did before.

Really? I'm umming and arring over them being Raven Guard or White Scar, though some people have mentioned Blood Angels, I'm tempted.

As I've had a long hiatus I'm going to see how my playing style fits into the different tactics.

Khonsu wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
You probably should also consider what is the parent Legion of your chapter. Blood Angles are said to be longer lived than other marines, so Dante is not a good benchmark for non-BA marines. Chaplain Cassius of Ultramarines is considered ancient and he is under 400 years old.

No one actually knows when marines die naturally anyways, Since they never did before.

Actually I imagine as an average Iron Hands live longest just because they're totally cool with going full Robocop.

Khonsu wrote:

No one actually knows when marines die naturally anyways, Since they never did before.

Of course they do.

in Ian Watson's space marines there are a references to a few elderly space marines, too injured to rebuild, who act as teachers, tutors, instructors etc etc.

 daddyorchips wrote:
in Ian Watson's space marines there are a references to a few elderly space marines, too injured to rebuild, who act as teachers, tutors, instructors etc etc.

IIRC that book is largely retconned now isn't it?

 Crimson wrote:

Khonsu wrote:

No one actually knows when marines die naturally anyways, Since they never did before.

Of course they do.

I haven't actually seen any Marine die of age. I remember reading something about GKs eventually retiring to Titan but it does not state how old they are when they do so.

I wouldn't be surprised if they sent injured marines to train as TechMarines, since pilot or mechanic positions might require less combat ability.

Never heard of Space Marien dying of old age. But then there is conflicting sources about whether or not the Astartes are mortal or not.

As for myself I'll go for the one from Dan Abnett Horus Rising :

"There was an irony, of course. To all intents and purposes, and by every measurement known to the gene-scientists and gerontologist, the Astartes, like the primarchs, were immortals. Age would not wither them, nor bring them down. They would live forever... five thousand years, ten thousand years, beyond even that into some unimaginable millenium. Except for the scythe of war.

Immortal, but not invulnerable. Yes, they might live forever, but they would never get the chance. Immortality was a by-product of their Astartes strenghs, but those strenghs had been gene-built for combat.

They had been born immortal only to die in war. That was the way of it."

Khonsu wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
You probably should also consider what is the parent Legion of your chapter. Blood Angles are said to be longer lived than other marines, so Dante is not a good benchmark for non-BA marines. Chaplain Cassius of Ultramarines is considered ancient and he is under 400 years old.

No one actually knows when marines die naturally anyways, Since they never did before.

Brother Gravius of the Salamanders was probably the oldest known Astartes. At the time of his discovery/eventual death on Scoria (962.M41), he was the last known loyalist survivor of the Drop Site Massacre (006.M31)... and his death only came about when his gene seed was removed because he was fused to his watch post on a dying world.

 Psienesis wrote:
In certain cases, injury will render a Space Marine not combat-ready, in which case they take on administrative or advisory/planning roles with the Chapter Master, but they never stop being Space Marines. There is no "off duty" period or a time when they hang up the bolter and power armor and go spend their days fishing and reading Imperial Digest.

The closest thing to "retirement" for space marines is Apothecaries that pursue non-combat roles.

 Carlson793 wrote:

Brother Gravius of the Salamanders was probably the oldest known Astartes. At the time of his discovery/eventual death on Scoria (962.M41), he was the last known loyalist survivor of the Drop Site Massacre (006.M31)... and his death only came about when his gene seed was removed because he was fused to his watch post on a dying world.

Actually, he was just sitting around on a crashed space ship waiting for rescue. He was only alive because he went into a sus-an coma, and he was too physically frail (as well as being close to death, though whether it was age or autophagia isn't clear) to move when rescue finally arrived, which is why they euthanised him and took his progenoids.

We have had this discussion many times, and my firm belief is that Marines are perfectly mortal and do age. I base this on Blood Angels having a longer lifespan and ageing slower than other marines as well as to references of Space Marines having a lifespan many times of a normal men (neither of which make sense if they were immortal.) There are also references to old marines retired to training duties. And of course, as with any fluff detail, there is bound to be some vague BL reference that contradicts this, but I think that the mortal marines is the most consistently presented picture.

Do we have any example of a Marine actually dying of old age, though? The Salamander arguably does not count given that he sat still for 10k years.

As a side note, in most of Dante's fluff, it says he was already the BA chapter master 1100 years ago. Right before that he was a captain during the Secoris tragedy that the Space Hulk game refers to, where the chapter got thinned down a lot. (The one that the SH game refers to them "getting revenge for," not the sin of damnation campaign itself.) His predecessor chapter master was also a survivor of that, and so he had to wait for him to go down to finally get the boss chair.

In the dataslate fluff, it says he's been chapter master for 1500 years, and no one knows how much older than that he is.

So if you take your own estimate of how long it takes to become a Blood Angel and reach the rank of captain or chapter master, (probably at least several hundred years right?) and then add either 1100 or 1500 years depending on which source you like more...Either way you end up with the single uncontested oldest non-dreadnought in the Imperium, and he still enjoys jump packing into battle and axeing dudes himself.

There's a James Swallow (I think) short story where some Tzeentch sorcerer uses some powerful spell that makes his memories attack his own mind. The more memories, the more powerful it is. He also says it quickly drains multiple decades of lifespan. Dante shakes off the attack by a millennium of memories, and axes him. Then he takes off his mask (for the first time outside the BA monastery,) to taunt him about how decades mean jack to him. (presumably he still looks young.)

I think the whole "super-old but I still look 35" is a nod to the vampiric sub-theme that the chapter has.

Amoras wrote:
Only in death does duty end!

Dante is the oldest marine with 1100 years old and going strong, as long as you stay under that it should be okey.

Don't know if were counting Chaos marines too but Kharn and Typhus are both 10,100 years old plus.

I suppose that they are loved by Gods though and thus don't count, right?

 Ashiraya wrote:
Do we have any example of a Marine actually dying of old age, though? The Salamander arguably does not count given that he sat still for 10k years.

Do you have any example of Ratling dying of old age? Orgyn? Even a normal Imperial citizen? This just doesn't come up in the fiction as it is not the focus of the stories, still the statements about the lifespan clearly indicate it is limited, and the logical end point is death. I actually agree that it would be highly unlikely for a marine to die this way, as they are much more likely to be killed in combat before that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wilson wrote:

Don't know if were counting Chaos marines too but Kharn and Typhus are both 10,100 years old plus.

I suppose that they are loved by Gods though and thus don't count, right?

They indeed do not count. They hang in the warp and are blessed by Chaos Gods.

haha yeah fair enough

kinda related, does anyone know the average life span of a regular human - i.e a civi/ gaurdsman ( that didn't die to xeno!) in 40k?

I believe the average life span now is roughly 70 years.