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Hey all,

I am a 40k player thinking of coming to try out fantasy. My group of friends are starting to collect armies so I figure why not! Now I am interested in the High Elves, Wood Elves, and Lizardmen. Now I confess I know nothing at all about this game. Going to have to get my hands on a rule book and some codex's. Until then though, could anyone tell me what the different strength, weaknesses or strategies are of the three armies I selected?

Wood Elves are the most 40k-like army - they have a lot of skirmishers and ranged units, but are all T3 with little to no armour. This renders them very capable, but they require a bit of finesse to make sure your archers don't get charged and that your counter-assault units are in the right place at the right time.

Lizardmen are slower, tougher... they're kind of like Space Marines without guns, if you replaced Scouts with envenomed Gretchin. They're not as maneuverable though, because Saurus blocks and Skinks with Kroxigor are all rank and file - they move as regiments.

High Elves are a balanced army, but still weighted towards offence over defence. They get boatloads of high-initiative attacks, are more melee oriented than ranged, but are still relatively fragile. They do, however, have overwhelmingly powerful magic and some very nice monsters - they are Fantasy's Eldar in pretty much ever sense of the word, except in CC instead of at range.

[quote=Furyou Miko 625019 7390212 55c58a5908bac75a8d8a697378c2d98e.png they are Fantasy's Eldar in pretty much ever sense of the word

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:
[quote=Furyou Miko 625019 7390212 55c58a5908bac75a8d8a697378c2d98e.png they are Fantasy's Eldar in pretty much ever sense of the word

No they aren't. You don't have anything lie wraithknight wave serpents spam.

Lizards are a great starter army. Tough & strong, a bit lacking in the shooting phase if you dont bring the skink cloud. THey have some nice monsters & the "Cowboy Saurus" build works great for combat characters. They are very forgiving with coldblooded making psycology less painful.

Woodelves are the shooty army. They can be very strong but need to be played well. They have plenty of tricks to win but you will need t use them. With wood elves you shoot to soften, then only engage when & where you want. If you let your opponent dictate the game you will lose.

High elves are the toolbox army. They have units to deal with almost every situation. They aren't super hard hitting, they aren't that tough, but what they are is flexible. High elves are one of the upper tier armies right now because they have such tactical flexibility. They also have several viable builds.

A bit on fantasy tiers. They aren't like 40k where army X completely trumps army Y. They tend to describe the skill level needed to win. Even the "bottom" armies like TK, Beastmen & Brettonnnia can be devastating if wielded by the proper player, they just don't deal with mistakes as easily.

Additionally with the end times book 3 : Khaine you can now field combined high, wood & Dark elves. It's not a complete mashup though. There are 3 lists & each is missing some units from all 3 of the books to make it different however this might be a good option but it will increase your buy-in cost as you need both the HE, WE & Khaine books. Of which Khaine is sold out until a softback is printed.

Finally, pick the army you like the look of. Unlike 40k fantasy is much less about WHAT you bring (Armylist) than HOW you use it. Fantasy also has a higher model count & you will be spending a LOT of time assembling and painting, so please make sure you like the models.

I like Lizards but will say you can now make a combined High Elf, Wood Elf, and even Dark Elf army, with it being completely legal.

Wood Elves like forests, they get to bring a free one (and determine its type), but they are capable of operating without them.

If you really like Treemen, etc, then you can either go for a full Forest Spirit army (Drycha for Hero, Dryads for core, Treekin for Special and Treemen for rare), or you could mix and match with some close-combatty Elves. There's a really nice trick you can do with Wyldwood Rangers and your Free Forest - they gain combat bonusses against Fear-causing enemies. One of the Forests makes everything in it cause Fear. Bait the enemy into that wood then hit them with the Rangers for fun and profit.

Neither. I'd wait til the dust settles from the end times before picking anything

the ancient wrote:
Neither. I'd wait til the dust settles from the end times before picking anything

Why would that affect anything? Will there be a flood of codecs/rule changes?

I would like to do have a tree army as the models look cool. But i also really like the Calvary for the wood elves. Are they any good?

Treemen can be pretty good & Wild riders are devastating.

The reason to wait is while elves have just been updated we don't know what the future will bring to lizardmen. However I don't think there's really a need to wait. If you want elves go for it.

I'd stick to purely one type for now. While all rumours point to the mergers being permanent the thing is we don't know and having one type means you only need one army book.

Shaso_Keo wrote:

the ancient wrote:
Neither. I'd wait til the dust settles from the end times before picking anything

Why would that affect anything? Will there be a flood of codecs/rule changes?

I would like to do have a tree army as the models look cool. But i also really like the Calvary for the wood elves. Are they any good?

Possibly. Book one combined Tomb Kings and Vampire Counts, Book two combined Daemons, Warriors, and Beastmen, Book 3 combined Wood, High, and Dark Elves, at this point we dont know what else is coming, but its all but confirmed that Brettonia and Empire will be combined at some point, and there are suspsicions about other possibilities. If your options are wood/high elves then I wouldnt worry too much, just wait until the softcover reprint comes out so youncan field a combined list, but if youre including lizardmen then id wait longer, as curreny in the end times fluff they have entirely vanished under mysterious circumstances so theres no telling what lies ahead with them.

chaos0xomega wrote:

Shaso_Keo wrote:

the ancient wrote:
Neither. I'd wait til the dust settles from the end times before picking anything

Why would that affect anything? Will there be a flood of codecs/rule changes?

I would like to do have a tree army as the models look cool. But i also really like the Calvary for the wood elves. Are they any good?

Possibly. Book one combined Tomb Kings and Vampire Counts, Book two combined Daemons, Warriors, and Beastmen, Book 3 combined Wood, High, and Dark Elves, at this point we dont know what else is coming, but its all but confirmed that Brettonia and Empire will be combined at some point, and there are suspsicions about other possibilities. If your options are wood/high elves then I wouldnt worry too much, just wait until the softcover reprint comes out so youncan field a combined list, but if youre including lizardmen then id wait longer, as curreny in the end times fluff they have entirely vanished under mysterious circumstances so theres no telling what lies ahead with them.

Oh that does sound intriguing... maybe I will wait then. Because the real decision for me is between wood elves and lizardmen, I confess, I love the dinosaurs.

How are both teams magic wise?

Both have access to high magic. WE also have Dark Magic though I find Dark too short ranged to be useful most of the time.

Lizards are much more flexible. Their lore attribute says once you cast a spell from this lore you can choose to forget it & roll to get a random new spell from any of the 8 lores of magic. So you start with 4 High spells. Then realize you're up against chaos warriors sporting 4+ armor everywhere & you say "Ok cast this spell & lore attribute give me a lore of metal spell" or you realize you need light magic because youre up against undead "Ok I cast X & change ti for a lore of light spell". the spell you cast still goes off but you then can CHOOSE to exchange it. It's also great for situational spells like arcane unforging, you destroy that one swcary magic item then switch it out for something potentially more useful.

Wood Elves are slightly better at casting as they get +1 to cast while in the woods.


it should also be noted they both have access to all 8 basic lores of magic + the lore of undeath from Nagash.

Hmm good to know about magic. How about the Mcs? According to 1d4 chan the trogg and treemen are sub-par. Though that site has made errors in the past.

They are. WE can use a treeman to good effect, but rarely will you see more than one.

As for lizards it's not the troggs it's the carnosaurs, Bastilladon and the stegodons. all of which can do quite well.

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:
They are. WE can use a treeman to good effect, but rarely will you see more than one.

As for lizards it's not the troggs it's the carnosaurs, Bastilladon and the stegodons. all of which can do quite well.

Sorry do you mean the trog is good, just not as good as the other 3? Because I can deal with that

Lizardmen are starting to win me over. Though I also read the cold one cavalry is over-coasted. With the end times going on, is there likely to be a new codex or changes made to the lizardmen, or just who they can ally with?

Trogg is not too good, especially when compared to the other 3.

Cold one cav is expensive but you aren't buying it for the cav. You're buying extra shooting wounds for your character in that unit.

As for end times we don't know. Haven't really ehard from them since page 1 book 1.

Slann might be a tad too expensive, but omgwtfbbq are they good at magic.

If you like dinosaurs, get dinosaurs. If you like shooting people in a forrest get them. I think you made up your mind already (Dinosaurs!), but thought Elves would be better at magic.

Bharring wrote:
Slann might be a tad too expensive, but omgwtfbbq are they good at magic.

If you like dinosaurs, get dinosaurs. If you like shooting people in a forrest get them. I think you made up your mind already (Dinosaurs!), but thought Elves would be better at magic.

Yea going lizards.... cuz dinosaurs! Got a paint scheme set out too

Any suggestion of what I should start with?

I want to make a Calvary/giant dinosaur list. I like the models, and I just generally enjoy cavalry.

Oh and magic. Got to have them spells!

Magic - Slann or Skink Priests

Stegadon for your first biog dino

Cold one Cav

Obviously the army book.

Honestly the battalion box isn't a bad start. 20 Saurus Warriors, 12 Skinks, 10 Temple Guard and eight Saurus Cavalry. is a good core for any army to build around. Though 10 temple guard aren't great, you'll want to fill that out to 20.

Army Book--$59.50 CAD
Battalion--$130 CAD
Skink Priest plastic blister--$25 CAD
Carnosaur--$100 CAD(Can be used to build Kroq-Gar OR a generic Saurus character on a Carnosaur OR a Skink Oracle on Troglodon and the Kroq-Gar or Oldblood on foot)


That would be how I would start at least.

You don't even need the carnosaur yet. If you're just learning mechanics, the armybook battalion & a skink priest will be fine. Help cut down on initial cost.

Who said anything about "need"?

The Carnosaur is a great model, period, and I could not imagine ever wanting to play a giant dinosaur army without at least one.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Who said anything about "need"?

The Carnosaur is a great model, period, and I could not imagine ever wanting to play a giant dinosaur army without at least one.

Find myself agreeing

Building is my favourite part of the hobby anyway, so getting my favourite model first wild help me become invested in fantasy. I think I'll start with caransaur and the codex. Can I edit: feild the caranosaur in a 1k game?

I'm not actually sure as I don't know the points values for Lizardmen.

Nobody really plays them locally, so I've not had a chance to flip through the book much.

With the End Times rules you can! Great choice btw.

You can because you can spend 500 pts on heroes and 500 pts on lords in a 1000 pt game but bare in mind you have to spend at least 250 pts on core. Lizards are incredible at Magic and I love their magic items! Good choice

WD Slann is very powerful with the new magic rules...

5851bf20bc3b2df8862f0fba7253.jpg]You can because you can spend 500 pts on heroes and 500 pts on lords in a 1000 pt game but bare in mind you have to spend at least 250 pts on core. Lizards are incredible at Magic and I love their magic items! Good choice

For example are lizards c alvalry over priced?

Slightly but not so much over priced as there are better options in the book.

What units should i avoid (heard the fliers are awful)?

Trogolodon, Ark of Sotek bastilladon, Generally kroxigor


is the current codex up to date or is there a new one on the horizon?

Up to date

Any general tips?

Watch out for any test or die spells that target initiative (Purple sun, Pit of shades, Great maw)