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2014/12/02 14:44:29
Subject: Something is stirring under the mountain - Smaug is here! (pic in first post)
I hope they do drop the LOTR entirely, so that someone else can pick up the franchise and do it properly. That would be amazing.
Only if they also picked up the existing miniature line, but I can't see GW selling it to anyone else.
GW spent over ten years making LOTR the best miniatures line ever made, from 2001 to the end of 2012, and no one will be able to top that, not even themselves.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
LuciusAR wrote: Even if they stop supporting the system I hope they don't stop making and selling the models. Even if it's just on-line. Some of them are lovley. I'm using LOTR minatures for Song of Blades and Heroes and really enjoy painting them.
Better buy them quickly. Over half of the line has been discontinued over the past year.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/02 15:06:02
"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke
2014/12/02 15:08:43
Subject: Something is stirring under the mountain - Smaug is here! (pic in first post)
I hope they do drop the LOTR entirely, so that someone else can pick up the franchise and do it properly. That would be amazing.
Only if they also picked up the existing miniature line, but I can't see GW selling it to anyone else.
GW spent over ten years making LOTR the best miniatures line ever made, from 2001 to the end of 2012, and no one will be able to top that, not even themselves.
As I understand it, the LOTR rules were written by Allessio Cavatore, so there is no-one left at GW responsible for the LOTR range being the success it was. But there's no reason those same people couldn't bring it back.
Just think what would happen if the Perry Brothers or Warlord took over the license. Then you'd have mini's at least as good, by the people who were involved in making it successful without GW management to price it into oblivion.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/02 15:11:37
2014/12/02 15:46:16
Subject: Something is stirring under the mountain - Smaug is here! (pic in first post)
GW spent over ten years making LOTR the best miniatures line ever made, from 2001 to the end of 2012, and no one will be able to top that, not even themselves.
As I understand it, the LOTR rules were written by Allessio Cavatore, so there is no-one left at GW responsible for the LOTR range being the success it was. But there's no reason those same people couldn't bring it back.
Just think what would happen if the Perry Brothers or Warlord took over the license. Then you'd have mini's at least as good, by the people who were involved in making it successful without GW management to price it into oblivion.
Rick Priestley, actually, was the main rules designer.
What would happen is the minis would be subpar, or differently scaled, or of inconsistent quality compared to the Citadel figs. There's not enough interest any longer. There's no reason for anyone to spend the money on a license and then millions and millions of dollars on simply recreating steel molds for plastic miniatures that already exist. Who here would buy MORE uruk-hai? I have 400 uruk-hai infantry already.
"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke
2014/12/02 16:00:48
Subject: Something is stirring under the mountain - Smaug is here! (pic in first post)
I always though Smaug should have looked like this
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
2014/12/02 16:14:18
Subject: Re:Something is stirring under the mountain - Smaug is here! (pic in first post)
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Looking for great deals on miniatures or have a large pile you are looking to sell off? Checkout Mindtaker Miniatures.
Live in the Pacific NW? Check out http://ordofanaticus.com
2014/12/02 16:28:06
Subject: Something is stirring under the mountain - Smaug is here! (pic in first post)
The pose is a bit underwhelming. It's also odd to see such a collectible figure with such a premium price, cast in such an inferior material. You usually get that with knock offs, not the real thing.
2014/12/02 17:55:56
Subject: Something is stirring under the mountain - Smaug is here! (pic in first post)
Agreed on the pose being underwhelming, would have liked to see his wings extended and a more threatening approach.
As it stands he looks like hes just bellowing out a bad word.
Naughty Dwagon.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/02 17:56:12
Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be
By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.
"Feelin' goods, good enough".
2014/12/02 18:14:04
Subject: Something is stirring under the mountain - Smaug is here! (pic in first post)
I've said it before and I'll say it again: I don't really understand the pedantic no-overlap definition between 'dragon' and 'wyvern' in people's minds. Not when there's so much else to be pedantic about, like how few people can put an ounce of convincing realism or originality in either dragons or wyverns (or drakes, or wyrms, or serpents, or...). Is it a D&D thing or what?
Movie Smaug is one of the better dragon designs I've seen for a while, thanks again to John Howe I'd imagine, even if it's not enough to make me go see another PJ travesty. And no offence to the Professor, fanboy of whom as I am, but he wasn't much on the illustration side of things. (I do think it's interesting that his Smaug, familiar from a lot of Hobbit covers, look a bit like a stretched, red alligator with wings and ears. Seriously though, lookit the long, flat, square skull with raised eye bumps and protruding teeth...)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ImAGeek wrote: It's a shame. I'd be interested in getting into LotR now, but not when i know support will completely dry up within the year.
Personally, I'm buying up GWLotR orcs and dwarves, just 'cos they look nice compared to gorillorcs, punch-goblins and kneeless dwarfs from elsewhere (inc. WHFB), deciding on which historical plastics to use for Rohan and maybe Gondor, and running them through Mayhem's unit builder rules for mass battles.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/02 18:20:10
Unfortunately my mental image of Smaug has never recovered from the old Rankin Bass/ Tatsunoko animated Hobbit film from ages past.
Has anyone ever made a model of similar design?
Gawd damn I loved me that movie. I had an old read along record (as well as the soundtrack on record) that I played the crap out of on my old Fisher Price portable record player.
Poorly lit photos of my ever- growing collection of completely unrelated models!
GW spent over ten years making LOTR the best miniatures line ever made, from 2001 to the end of 2012, and no one will be able to top that, not even themselves.
As I understand it, the LOTR rules were written by Allessio Cavatore, so there is no-one left at GW responsible for the LOTR range being the success it was. But there's no reason those same people couldn't bring it back.
Just think what would happen if the Perry Brothers or Warlord took over the license. Then you'd have mini's at least as good, by the people who were involved in making it successful without GW management to price it into oblivion.
Rick Priestley, actually, was the main rules designer.
What would happen is the minis would be subpar, or differently scaled, or of inconsistent quality compared to the Citadel figs. There's not enough interest any longer. There's no reason for anyone to spend the money on a license and then millions and millions of dollars on simply recreating steel molds for plastic miniatures that already exist. Who here would buy MORE uruk-hai? I have 400 uruk-hai infantry already.
Priestly is also working elsewhere now.
Why would mini's sculpted by potentially the same people, in the same material, with rules written by the same people, automatically become inferior if they were made under a different company?
The LOTR interest has died off a bit compared to the glory days before GW dropped the ball, but what makes you think people wouldn't be interested in picking it up at Perry*/Warlord prices?
I hear it's a good game and I'd probably get into it if I could get Perry sculpted figures (metal/plastic) at Perry prices.
*Good friends with PJ too, though I don't know if that'd help them with the licensing.
2014/12/02 18:51:38
Subject: Something is stirring under the mountain - Smaug is here! (pic in first post)
Of course, in 6 months, or shortly after the disc versions are released, whichever is later, the licence to this will become, if not exactly worthless, certainly not anywhere near as valuable.
I certainly could find it plausible that it would drop sufficiently that a small, motivated outfit could obtain and operate it.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Haven't the Perrys basically said they'd only ever do historicals outside of GW?
But personally, I'd have no interest in new LotR models even if they were sculpted the same and basically identical; it's just unnecessary. What I find stupid is that, at least in terms of LotR, pretty much ever range was complete and every model had rules (and vice versa) before GW started retiring sets, when if they'd just left them for sale, even in a very limited cast-on-demand manner, they would basically never have to touch the game again and could just let the money roll in with no cost beyond materials. Instead, they've pulled easily half the sets, and the game is therefore actively going backward. I don't need expansion, but GW are literally wasting their own work by retiring good minis.
2014/12/02 21:36:05
Subject: Something is stirring under the mountain - Smaug is here! (pic in first post)
GW don't seem to care about keeping customers happy unless there's enough profit in it for them.
They don't seem to have made a connection between happy customers and a profitable business.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
I have a suspicion my girlfriends bought me that for Christmas. If not I'm gonna pick it up after Christmas, to go with my Hobbit movie books, the big ones with all the concept art and stuff in. Those books are awesome.
2014/12/02 22:04:15
Subject: Something is stirring under the mountain - Smaug is here! (pic in first post)
I have a suspicion my girlfriends bought me that for Christmas. If not I'm gonna pick it up after Christmas, to go with my Hobbit movie books, the big ones with all the concept art and stuff in. Those books are awesome.
You mean the Chronicles ones? Yeah, those are really awesome, I have the first two and the the third is on preorder, although apparently it has some big spoilers for the new film so I'm waiting until I see the movie. But thanks to Xmas postal delays, it's not scheduled to arrive until the 30th anyway, so it shouldn't be a problem.
2014/12/02 22:09:26
Subject: Something is stirring under the mountain - Smaug is here! (pic in first post)
Yep those ones. I have the first and second, and I think my mums getting me the third. But it's not out til the 17th anyway and I'll be getting it for Christmas, and I'm seeing the film on the 13th so ill be fine I love those books though.
2014/12/02 22:45:05
Subject: Something is stirring under the mountain - Smaug is here! (pic in first post)
Paradigm wrote: Haven't the Perrys basically said they'd only ever do historicals outside of GW?
But personally, I'd have no interest in new LotR models even if they were sculpted the same and basically identical; it's just unnecessary. What I find stupid is that, at least in terms of LotR, pretty much ever range was complete and every model had rules (and vice versa) before GW started retiring sets, when if they'd just left them for sale, even in a very limited cast-on-demand manner, they would basically never have to touch the game again and could just let the money roll in with no cost beyond materials. Instead, they've pulled easily half the sets, and the game is therefore actively going backward. I don't need expansion, but GW are literally wasting their own work by retiring good minis.
Yeah, this company really baffles me sometimes. I personally feel like upper management honestly looks with disdain at the LOTR stuff these days.
It seems like they had this expectation that since LOTR sold so well the first time, that would it would sell just as well even when they raised the costs by a HUGE margin...that and not bother with any of the advertising they did the first time! Now, the fact that the Hobbit hasn't been as much of a success has had a significant impact on GW's sales for sure, but you'd think GW took this news like a grumpy child with unreasonable expectations, and they've been putting in the bare minimum ever since.
EDIT: I will say that when the Hobbit came out I was actually looking pretty hard at the tabletop game, since I wanted a fantasy game but didn't feel the desire to invest in a 40k-size equivalent in WHFB. I knew LOTR had great rules and the warriors of Dale looked pretty great, but then I started seeing how expensive everything else was and I backed out.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/02 23:03:28
2014/12/02 23:52:48
Subject: Something is stirring under the mountain - Smaug is here! (pic in first post)
The definition of Insanity: Not doing what you did before and expecting the same result?
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
GW spent over ten years making LOTR the best miniatures line ever made, from 2001 to the end of 2012, and no one will be able to top that, not even themselves.
As I understand it, the LOTR rules were written by Allessio Cavatore, so there is no-one left at GW responsible for the LOTR range being the success it was. But there's no reason those same people couldn't bring it back.
Just think what would happen if the Perry Brothers or Warlord took over the license. Then you'd have mini's at least as good, by the people who were involved in making it successful without GW management to price it into oblivion.
Rick Priestley, actually, was the main rules designer.
What would happen is the minis would be subpar, or differently scaled, or of inconsistent quality compared to the Citadel figs. There's not enough interest any longer. There's no reason for anyone to spend the money on a license and then millions and millions of dollars on simply recreating steel molds for plastic miniatures that already exist. Who here would buy MORE uruk-hai? I have 400 uruk-hai infantry already.
Why would mini's sculpted by potentially the same people, in the same material, with rules written by the same people, automatically become inferior if they were made under a different company?
The LOTR interest has died off a bit compared to the glory days before GW dropped the ball, but what makes you think people wouldn't be interested in picking it up at Perry*Warlord prices?
I hear it's a good game and I'd probably get into it if I could get Perry sculpted figures (metal/plastic) at Perry prices.
*Good friends with PJ too, though I don't know if that'd help them with the licensing.
What if the people who play (or collect) Lord of the rings are fan of Lord of the rings and not fan of GW, http://www.mithril.ie/ makes some very good LOR mini's they could make miniatures that are compatible with the LOR games
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2014/12/03 10:24:08
GW spent over ten years making LOTR the best miniatures line ever made, from 2001 to the end of 2012, and no one will be able to top that, not even themselves.
As I understand it, the LOTR rules were written by Allessio Cavatore, so there is no-one left at GW responsible for the LOTR range being the success it was. But there's no reason those same people couldn't bring it back.
Just think what would happen if the Perry Brothers or Warlord took over the license. Then you'd have mini's at least as good, by the people who were involved in making it successful without GW management to price it into oblivion.
Rick Priestley, actually, was the main rules designer.
What would happen is the minis would be subpar, or differently scaled, or of inconsistent quality compared to the Citadel figs. There's not enough interest any longer. There's no reason for anyone to spend the money on a license and then millions and millions of dollars on simply recreating steel molds for plastic miniatures that already exist. Who here would buy MORE uruk-hai? I have 400 uruk-hai infantry already.
Priestly is also working elsewhere now.
Why would mini's sculpted by potentially the same people, in the same material, with rules written by the same people, automatically become inferior if they were made under a different company?
The LOTR interest has died off a bit compared to the glory days before GW dropped the ball, but what makes you think people wouldn't be interested in picking it up at Perry*/Warlord prices?
I hear it's a good game and I'd probably get into it if I could get Perry sculpted figures (metal/plastic) at Perry prices.
*Good friends with PJ too, though I don't know if that'd help them with the licensing.
What if the people who play (or collect) Lord of the rings are fan of Lord of the rings and not fan of GW, http://www.mithril.ie/ makes some very good LOR mini's they could make miniatures that are compatible with the LOR games
Call me old fashioned - but I actually prefer the Mithril figures and have been collecting them since long before GW had even thought about doing a LotR game.
Their Smaug (well - one of several they do) is pretty impressive for a metal miniature - about a foot long with a 9" wingspan...weighs a good pound and a half too, but it is an older design for a dragon and is showing its age.
2014/12/03 05:47:55
Subject: Something is stirring under the mountain - Smaug is here! (pic in first post)
GW spent over ten years making LOTR the best miniatures line ever made, from 2001 to the end of 2012, and no one will be able to top that, not even themselves.
Judge, not sure if you're being sarcastic here, but do you really feel that the GWLOTR line was really that good, to warrant that praise?
Because I (and I suspect a lot of other people) must respectfully disagree....
Personally, I always found the quality, sculpts, and poses to be very average (admittedly, maybe because of the scale).
"All GW will gain is my increased contempt for their business practices." - AesSedai
"Its terrible the way that conversion kit is causing him to buy 2 GW kits... " - Mad4Minis
"GW are hard to parody, as they are sometimes so stupid that the best in comedy couldn't beat them at their own game..." - Paradigm
2014/12/03 08:15:13
Subject: Something is stirring under the mountain - Smaug is here! (pic in first post)
GW spent over ten years making LOTR the best miniatures line ever made, from 2001 to the end of 2012, and no one will be able to top that, not even themselves.
Judge, not sure if you're being sarcastic here, but do you really feel that the GWLOTR line was really that good, to warrant that praise?
Because I (and I suspect a lot of other people) must respectfully disagree....
Personally, I always found the quality, sculpts, and poses to be very average (admittedly, maybe because of the scale).
I didn't like the LOTR models when I first saw pictures, but after I bought a few I really fell in love with them. I find them to be much better than GW's 40k and WHFB offerings in a lot of ways, having some nice true scale models really made me dislike the terrible bobblehead scale WHFB/40k models. The 40k/WHFB obviously squeeze more detail on to faces but at the cost of such horrible proportions and the detail per mm is often better on the LOTR models anyway so they look (IMO) better when you're actually holding them in your hand.
That said I wouldn't go as far as saying someone couldn't do better.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/03 08:16:11
" - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
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