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Given that the Emperor has a huge influence within the warp and is generally assumed to be as powerful as the Chaos Gods, it stands to reason that he would have is own realm within the warp and therefore his own daemons. While this hasn't really been expanded on (or i just haven't read enough from the black library), just an attempt to get them into crunch terms. Haven't got names yet so bear with me.

Lesser Daemon of the Emperor
Type (infantry)

WS5 BS3 S4 T4 W1 I5 A2 Ld10 Sv /5++

Wargear: Warp Chainblade, Hand Flamer

USR: Daemon, Fearless, Brotherhood of Psykers

Warp Chainblades: +1S, Ap5, Rending

Greater Daemon of the Emperor
Type (Monstrous Creature)

WS8 BS5 S7 T5 W4 I5 A5 Ld10 Sv 4+/5++

Wargear: Holy Greatblade, Shield of Will

USR: Daemon, Fearless, Psyker (lvl2)

Holy Greatblade: CCW with Fleshbane and Force

Sheild of Will: Grants bearer Adamantium Will and +1T against shooting attacks

Any and all suggestions are welcome, just trying to get an idea off the ground

How come imperial daemons are better than daemon daemons? Make them reasonable.

Lesser daemons - based on humans:
WS3 BS3 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld7 Sv -/5++ with daemonic instability.

Come the apocalypse allies with everyone.

No greater daemons cause he's not currently a fully manifested warp entity.

 koooaei wrote:
How come imperial daemons are better than daemon daemons? Make them reasonable.

Lesser daemons - based on humans:
WS3 BS3 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld7 Sv -/5++ with daemonic instability.

Come the apocalypse allies with everyone.

No greater daemons cause he's not currently a fully manifested warp entity.

But why would the emperor base his warp entities on humans when daemons are usually a reflection of their patron gods, not only that but he has sat on the golden throne for 10,000 years, surely a being that powerful with that amount of time could pool some of his power for greater manifestations. I do see your point that he has not fully become one with the warp and whatnot but he still has a huge influence over it.

Read Lord Lucans Warhammer 60K Age of Dusk, it goes into great detail about exactly what would happen when the Empy becomes a Chaos God and what kind of Daemons he would have, But to save you over 100 odd pages of fanfiction, i'll break it down.

Lesser Daemons were called Angyls, they were angelic in figure, but their faces were just blank masks with no features (Imagine Dark Eldar reaver head) and they had Sharp, Metalic Gold Wings. They were made out of gold, and were all about compliance. The Empy became the Chaos God of compliance, of thoughtless obedience, so the Angyls went around telling people to obey or they would cut you up with their wings.

Rule Wise i'd imagine them, to make them different from the average Daemon Infantry, would be Jump Troops. They wouldn't have rending due to stepping on Daemonettes toes, or AP 3 weapons in case they do the same to Bloodletters. Maybe think of something unique? For example what if their Wings gave them Strength 8, but they counted the enemies Leadership as their Toughness? Fearless = Ld 10. That sounds unique.

The Greater Daemons were called Archangyls, and were scaled up versions. I'd imagine they'd play with your enemies leadership somehow, going along with the theme.

Just some ideas, i really like the idea of the Empy being the God of Mindless Obedience, it just makes sense to me. While your unit seems like it's trying to replace Horrors, Flamers and Daemonettes at the same time. Give them something unique otherwise there is little point in Proposed Rules.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Read Lord Lucans Warhammer 60K Age of Dusk, it goes into great detail about exactly what would happen when the Empy becomes a Chaos God and what kind of Daemons he would have, But to save you over 100 odd pages of fanfiction, i'll break it down.

Lesser Daemons were called Angyls, they were angelic in figure, but their faces were just blank masks with no features (Imagine Dark Eldar reaver head) and they had Sharp, Metalic Gold Wings. They were made out of gold, and were all about compliance. The Empy became the Chaos God of compliance, of thoughtless obedience, so the Angyls went around telling people to obey or they would cut you up with their wings.

Rule Wise i'd imagine them, to make them different from the average Daemon Infantry, would be Jump Troops. They wouldn't have rending due to stepping on Daemonettes toes, or AP 3 weapons in case they do the same to Bloodletters. Maybe think of something unique? For example what if their Wings gave them Strength 8, but they counted the enemies Leadership as their Toughness? Fearless = Ld 10. That sounds unique.

The Greater Daemons were called Archangyls, and were scaled up versions. I'd imagine they'd play with your enemies leadership somehow, going along with the theme.

Just some ideas, i really like the idea of the Empy being the God of Mindless Obedience, it just makes sense to me. While your unit seems like it's trying to replace Horrors, Flamers and Daemonettes at the same time. Give them something unique otherwise there is little point in Proposed Rules.

I have read the 60k nightmare to come fluff, very good read. I do like the idea of leadership based values and whatnot, perhaps alot of their wargear is bent towards controlling your opponents units, you know with the whole mindless obedience thing.

Angyl
Type(Jump) Infantry

WS4 BS3 S8 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld10 Sv4++

Wargear: Angyl Wings, Warp Augum.

USR: Daemon, Fearless, Forceful Obedience.

Angyl Wings: These might golden wings are used by the Star Fathers Angyls to eviscerate any who dare to disobey. The unit is treated as jump infantry and all attacks in close combat are S8

Warp Augum: The Star Father fashioned all his daemons from raw warp gold, giving them a greater connection to the warp and thus become even more resilient. The warp gold is blazingly hot to the touch and is still malleable to be thrown at the disobedient. The unit receives a 4++ and is treated as having assault grenades

Forceful Obeidiance: The Angyls very rarely physically attack other entities as most of their combat is done mentally, forcing their opponents to subject themselves to the subjugation of the Star Father. when a unit with a model containing this rule is in close combat with an enemy unit all enemy units must take as many leadership tests as your units have attacks, for every failed leadership test your opponents unit(s) take D3 hits at the strength and Ap values of your unit CCW's. If any model in a unit has this rule you may not resolve your attacks normally.

Forceful Obedience is a little...well, ridiculously OP. You will be forcing something close to 20 leadership tests a turn, which as well as being annoying as heck to roll, is just wrong. Maybe save the ability for the Archangyl? Make it work something like MSS?

Also, remember Str 8 but tests against Leadership instead of Toughness. Most things are Ldship 8, so you will mostly wound on 4's, 3's against Tau and other low ldship stuff. Strength 8 in general is just way to powerful. Make them str 4 basic, so they might be able to take on vehicles in a pinch.

See St Celestine adn several others like the one is the Blood Angels codex and potentially the entire Legion of the Damned

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Forceful Obedience is a little...well, ridiculously OP. You will be forcing something close to 20 leadership tests a turn, which as well as being annoying as heck to roll, is just wrong. Maybe save the ability for the Archangyl? Make it work something like MSS?

Also, remember Str 8 but tests against Leadership instead of Toughness. Most things are Ldship 8, so you will mostly wound on 4's, 3's against Tau and other low ldship stuff. Strength 8 in general is just way to powerful. Make them str 4 basic, so they might be able to take on vehicles in a pinch.

Good idea, but the one problem is against other daemons or fearless units, Angyls will have an incredibly difficult time as they will be wounding on sixes. if i cut the strength to six it might balance the problem, and perhaps simply limiting the amount of leadership tests to the amount of models in the unit?

 Mr Morden wrote:
See St Celestine adn several others like the one is the Blood Angels codex and potentially the entire Legion of the Damned

Feeling a whole lot more of this.

why would the Big E be the god of obedience. and why does he need to be a chaos god?

why not an god of order?

(less attacky, more buffy)

And on that He was a massivily powerful psyker not really a "god" and on top of that. the forces of chaos have been around way loner than 10k...

If anything he would be manifesting his powers exactly as it is now. saints and stuff.

 Desubot wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
See St Celestine adn several others like the one is the Blood Angels codex and potentially the entire Legion of the Damned

Feeling a whole lot more of this.

why would the Big E be the god of obedience. and why does he need to be a chaos god?

why not an god of order?

(less attacky, more buffy)

And on that He was a massivily powerful psyker not really a "god" and on top of that. the forces of chaos have been around way loner than 10k...

If anything he would be manifesting his powers exactly as it is now. saints and stuff.

technically he has been around just as long as chaos has, and has been around longer than all the four gods gained sentience, and the god of obedience stems from his overwhelming desire for order, but this is from Lord Lucan's 60k A nightmare to come fluff.

 Emperor Pigeon wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
See St Celestine adn several others like the one is the Blood Angels codex and potentially the entire Legion of the Damned

Feeling a whole lot more of this.

why would the Big E be the god of obedience. and why does he need to be a chaos god?

why not an god of order?

(less attacky, more buffy)

And on that He was a massivily powerful psyker not really a "god" and on top of that. the forces of chaos have been around way loner than 10k...

If anything he would be manifesting his powers exactly as it is now. saints and stuff.

technically he has been around just as long as chaos has, and has been around longer than all the four gods gained sentience, and the god of obedience stems from his overwhelming desire for order, but this is from Lord Lucan's 60k A nightmare to come fluff.

Is there any sources on that? i though at the least nurgle was muuuuuuuuch older since the dawn of things not wanting to die.

Is wounding on 6's a problem? I mean, the average lesser Daemon is Str 3, meanging anything T5 or higher, you wound on 6's. But being Str 8 against Ldship it means, reguardless of Toughness, you will usually wound on 4's. Riptides, 3's,Nurgle Bikers, 4's, Greater Daemons, 4's.

They are a troop choice, can you think of another troop choice that has attacks above strength 5 (and that's Fire Warriors) without taking special weapons? Homebrew units should go by the motto ''under powered, over costed'', that way people will be more happy to let you use your Homebrew. And i for one wouldn't want to play against something that causes 10+ Ldship Tests and was Str 6 with a 12'' movement.

Give them a specific, niche role, and build around it.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Is wounding on 6's a problem? I mean, the average lesser Daemon is Str 3, meanging anything T5 or higher, you wound on 6's. But being Str 8 against Ldship it means, reguardless of Toughness, you will usually wound on 4's. Riptides, 3's,Nurgle Bikers, 4's, Greater Daemons, 4's.

They are a troop choice, can you think of another troop choice that has attacks above strength 5 (and that's Fire Warriors) without taking special weapons? Homebrew units should go by the motto ''under powered, over costed'', that way people will be more happy to let you use your Homebrew. And i for one wouldn't want to play against something that causes 10+ Ldship Tests and was Str 6 with a 12'' movement.

Give them a specific, niche role, and build around it.

thanks for putting things into perspective, I'm just so used to playing against high leadership armies that I lose sight of things. Here is a revised version of the rule.

Forceful Obedience: In close combat, all attacks from models with this rule resolve their strength against the leadership of the enemy models they are in close combat with. In addition all rolls to wound of a six are treated as having the concussive rule.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Archangyl
Type (Monstrous Creature)

WS7 BS5 S9 T5 W4 I6 A5 Ld10 Sv3+/4++

Wargear: Archangyl wings, Warp Augum, Power Armor(Equiv.)

USR: Daemon, Fearless, Star Father's Chosen, Forceful Obedience

Archangyl Wings: All close combat attacks are treated as strength nine and the Archangyl is treated as a Flying monstrous creature.

Star Father's Chosen: In close combat all units in base contact and within 2" of the Archangyl must take a leadership test on 3D6. For every failed leadership test the unit must take an additional hit with the Forceful Obedience rule.

Now, now, surely if we're making Imperial Daemons, they should share some design elements with Chaos Daemons. Here's my Imperial Daemon Prince:

Returned Saint . . 80 points
WS 7 BS 7 S 3 T 3 W 3 I 7 A 5 Ld 10

Type: Infantry (Character)

Wargear: 1 Close-combat weapon

Special Rules: Imperial Daemon, Daemonic Instability, Glorious Icon

Options:
- May take Wings (jump pack): +20 points
- May take Angelic Flight (flying monstrous creature): +80
- May take Bless'd Armour (3+ save): 20 points
- May take Glory'd Armour (2+ save): 40 points
- May take any of the following up to a maximum of 50 points:
- Lesser Gifts........................................10 points/each
- Greater Gifts........................................20 points/each
- Exalted Gifts.......................................30 points/each
- May take one of the following;
- Psyker (Mastery Level 1): 25 points
- Psyker (Mastery Level 2): 50 points
- Psyker (Mastery Level 3): 75 points
- May be upgraded to Ascendant Angel: 40 points

Ascendant Angel: The Returned Saint is a risen Space Marine rather than a human. He is always male, and has +1 WS, +2 S, and +1 T. He also gains And They Shall Know No Fear.

Glorious Icon: The Saint may choose to generate Divine Intervention instead of rolling for an Act of Faith. If they choose not to do this, they may instead apply their Act of Faith to all friendly units within 6".

---

Imperial Daemon: Imperial Daemons have the Daemon, Fear, Hatred (Chaos Daemons) and Acts of Faith special rules. They also generate a random Act of Faith at the start of the game:
1: Light (Preferred Enemy)
2: Fervour (Rage)
3: Deliverance (Shred)
4: Passion (Always Strikes First)
5: Fullisade (Ignores Cover)
6: Retribition (Rending)

Imperial Gifts
Lesser Gifts
1: Holy Weapon (AP3, Master-crafted, Melee, Specialist, Poisoned 4+)
2: Divine Punishment (When wounded, enemies in base contact suffer D3 S4 AP5 hits with no cover saves. Counts for Combat Res, but not for effects that benefit from causing wounds)
3: Halo (4+ Invulnerable save)
4: Holy Fire (Gain Template S5 AP4 Assault 1 attack)
5: Inviolate (Gain Adamantium Will)
6: Sacred Gaze (Gain Range 12" S8 AP1 Assault 1 Melta attack)

Greater Gifts
1: Greater Holy Weapon (AP2, Master-crafted, Specialist, Poisoned 3+)
2: Divine Restoration (+1 W, It Will Not Die)
3: Counterblow (May make bonus attacks at I1 equal to the number of missed attacks directed at the Daemon)
4: Divine Ward (Feel No Pain 4+)
5: Greater Fire (Gain Template S5 AP3 Assault 2, Gauss attack)
6: Divine Blessing (Reroll failed saves of a 1)

Exalted Gifts
1: Holy Artefact (someone else make up some relics )
2: Exalted Saint (Reroll Exalted Gift, rerolling 2s. Also gain a free Lesser Gift)
3: Sacred Fury (Gains Zealot and Rampage)
4: Beacon of the Astronomicon (All friendly reserves rolls may be rerolled with a +2 or -2 bonus, user's choice)
5: Channelling (Slain enemies return to life with the Imperial Daemon special rule on a 5+)
6: Father's Gaze (Gain Range 18" S8 AP1 Assault 2 Armourbane Beam attack)