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I think the title says it all, I was quite shocked to have read up on both the allegations of Will raping Stephine when she was a preteen and of her and Kris' apparent abuse/lack of intervention in said abuse for the later and former respectfully.

I just happened to check in on the Wikipedia entry for Sons of Guns, as I remember I haven't heard anything about the show in ages, and wondered if they had been cancelled, needless to say they had been and I was shocked into silence for the supposed reasons behind it.

I've never been one to jump conclusions, or hop aboard the stereotypical hype bandwagon and curse the very being of those involved, but the more I read, the fewer facts and the more skeptical I become on the truth of the matter, the media (as a huge shock I am sure) tends to blow things way out of proportions, and vilify anyone and everyone for the sake of selling a few more papers/getting a few more hits on their videos.

Let me get this out of the way right now, so I can save the time of having to say it later, I hold rape and abuse (of either gender to either gender), especially heinous in my own mind, placing such deeds along murder and acts of terrorism as awful and nigh on unforgivable, and those committing such crimes should be punished accordingly, but when I look at this whole ordeal, I find a lot of "we think this" "she said this" "he said that", with no true hard evidence for or against any of this.

The world as it stands is just a bad place, maybe it's me getting older but I swear the world didn't used to be so vile before the last 5 or so years. I'm not privy to believe any of this till hard facts come to light, until then I find all this finger pointing just a media circus, coupled with the rocky road the cast of Sons of Guns has traveled these last few years with all the on and off camera drama and how fame tends to corrupt and bend the wills of good people in such a way Chaos is jealous of, makes me wonder how much if any of this is based in fact (hear me out before you launch your Nastygram Pattern replies at me...).

The fact of the matter is, whether or not Will raped or did anything appropriate to Stephine when she was young there still remains the possibility in some moment of spite she choose to make this up as some form of payback against her father, just as possibly Stephine's son from a previous relationship (which I didn't even know she had...) could have been mad at his parents and called the police on them faking the reports of child abuse to get them in trouble, as we all know with the recent "this game company said some terrorist things" police raids as of late the law is like a rabid beast jumping on anything or anyone with extreme prejudice regardless of the context.

Am I saying I know for a fact all of these rape and abuse reports are lies? No, not in the slightest. Am I saying there is more then a little doubt about the truth of all of this? Yes, yes I am. Forgive my ramblings, I'm sure this is old news to most people but it is very much new to me, and felt like getting my rambling thoughts down for others to give there input.

So what does everyone think? Whats your verdict on this mess?

I think, even knowing nothing it, that that there is a 98% chance it's true, since the incidence of false rape allegations is statistically about 2%.

What Ouze said.

Also, it's not that the world is any better or worse than it was five, ten or fifty years ago. It's that we have 7 billion people and a vast array of 24 hour "news" outlets that need fear and disgust to move ad spaces.

So, do you actually have any reasons for being skeptical, or are you just being skeptical for the sake of being skeptical? Right now it seems like your argument is nothing more than "I don't really want to believe that such an awful thing happened, so we should consider the alternatives".

 Peregrine wrote:
So, do you actually have any reasons for being skeptical, or are you just being skeptical for the sake of being skeptical? Right now it seems like your argument is nothing more than "I don't really want to believe that such an awful thing happened, so we should consider the alternatives".

It's a mark of a fool to believe without question everything he hears, specially with our modern news systems making mountains out of molehills for the sake ratings. Skeptical for the sake of skeptical-ness is to be human, if we don't question things we effectively become slaves to those people who don't question anything at all, and manipulating us by events they cause.

Besides like I said in my first post, we have next to no facts, if any at all mired in this media quagmire. As far as the "98% of all rape allegations are true" I have to take the Han Solo approach and say "never tell me the odds", because odd calculations take into account many what-ifs and "this is what happened before so this is how it should happen again" thought processes. In short should doesn't equal could, Murphy's Law will explain that.

Part of me thinks you've got a chip of zeal on your shoulder Peregrine, something personal against either rape and abuse (which I can't blame you for) or against the Sons of Guns cast themselves.

The world as it stands is just a bad place, maybe it's me getting older but I swear the world didn't used to be so vile before the last 5 or so years

I've got good news for you. The world is steadily getting more and more peaceful, and drastically so. There was a bit of a spike in the 80's due to the influx of drugs and associated criminal activity, but that trend reversed in the 90's and violent crime has been on a steady decline for decades. The only quantifiable way in which modern society has actually gotten measurably worse that I can think of is social inequality in terms of wealth, but even with that the standards of living for even the poor are higher than they've pretty much ever been. Forest for the trees.

 JakeCWolf wrote:
Skeptical for the sake of skeptical-ness is to be human, if we don't question things we effectively become slaves to those people who don't question anything at all, and manipulating us by events they cause.

Are you aware that there's a difference between questioning and making forum topics to express your doubts? The right response to hearing a story about something horrible that doesn't yet have absolute proof is, at most, thinking "hmm, probably, but I guess it might not be true". Posting about your doubts like this is a completely disproportionate response when all you have is the general rule that you shouldn't be a mindless slave to authority.

Besides like I said in my first post, we have next to no facts, if any at all mired in this media quagmire.

So, like I suspected, you don't have any good reasons to be skeptical, you're just throwing out wild speculation. Why exactly is this any better than tinfoil hat posts about how 9/11 must have been done by the aliens flying the black helicopters?

As far as the "98% of all rape allegations are true" I have to take the Han Solo approach and say "never tell me the odds", because odd calculations take into account many what-ifs and "this is what happened before so this is how it should happen again" thought processes.

Do you also believe "never tell me the odds" about jumping off a bridge? After all, sometimes people survive that, so why should you be worried?

 Ouze wrote:
I think, even knowing nothing it, that that there is a 98% chance it's true, since the incidence of false rape allegations is statistically about 2%.

Technically an allegation only alleges a crime a occurred. They do not accuse. False rape accusations are even lower. Like .0 something. So yeah. Chances in the favor statistically speaking XD

Peregrine, you are a slave to your own ignorance, your title as "High Lord of Terra" confirms that beyond all doubt. Remember arrogance and ignorance are bywords of the Imperium of Man, not the Allfather. And that chip on your shoulder is getting bigger and bigger, even the blind can see it clear as day, exactly what the chip stems from is anyone's guess.

You want a reason to be skeptical? Here's you go; I'm human, I have free will, and for no other reason other then I can because nothing stops me from being so. My reasons for skepicism are the same as yours for choosing to believe a maelstrom of controversy and rumors as hard facts, because you can.

Pot calling the kettle black much?

 JakeCWolf wrote:
Peregrine, you are a slave to your own ignorance, your title as "High Lord of Terra" confirms that beyond all doubt.

Yes, my automatically-generated forum title tells so much about me. Got any other brilliant insights to offer?

You want a reason to be skeptical? Here's you go; I'm human, I have free will, and for no other reason other then I can because nothing stops me from being so.

So, like I said, you're just being skeptical for the sake of being skeptical. You don't have any good reasons for doubting the accusations, you just had to come here and tell us how "there are two sides!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" because you want to believe that it isn't true.

My reasons for skepicism are the same as yours for choosing to believe a maelstrom of controversy and rumors as hard facts, because you can.

No, actually I don't choose to believe anything. I don't know anything about the incident beyond what has been said in this thread. I just object to your obsessive skepticism and insistence on treating rape accusations with doubt that is completely disproportionate to the justifications for that doubt.

 LordofHats wrote:
False rape accusations are even lower. Like .0 something.

Wikipedia disagrees with you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_allegation_of_child_sexual_abuse

Innocent until proven guilty. Simple as that.

If guilty, put him in jail and have a time of hell on earth.

If not guilty, sue the living hell out of your ex.

 JakeCWolf wrote:
It's a mark of a fool to believe without question everything he hears, specially with our modern news systems making mountains out of molehills for the sake ratings.

If wasn't the news media that arrested him and charged him with crimes, it was the police, after finding probable cause to make an arrest based upon multiple acts on multiple victims.

But by all means, continue to roll the OT way:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Innocent until proven guilty. Simple as that.

If guilty, put him in jail and have a time of hell on earth.

If not guilty, sue the living hell out of your ex.

I fear there will be no justice, for the innocent or the guilty, the damage is done, and it will never be truly repaired.

I agree the damage has been done. Someone was probably raped and kids were abused, and that can't be taken back.

 MrDwhitey wrote:
I agree the damage has been done. Someone was probably raped and kids were abused, and that can't be taken back.

Only time will tell.

 Ouze wrote:

 JakeCWolf wrote:
It's a mark of a fool to believe without question everything he hears, specially with our modern news systems making mountains out of molehills for the sake ratings.

If wasn't the news media that arrested him and charged him with crimes, it was the police, after finding probable cause to make an arrest based upon multiple acts on multiple victims.

But by all means, continue to roll the OT way:

All I see is threats of proof of the crime, no actual proof. It's all hearsay until the facts come to light, if they do at all is a miracle at this point, also that image is cute but rather redundant at this point, as the fact it states is obvious to all but the hopelessly ignorant.

 Peregrine wrote:

 JakeCWolf wrote:
Peregrine, you are a slave to your own ignorance, your title as "High Lord of Terra" confirms that beyond all doubt.

Yes, my automatically-generated forum title tells so much about me. Got any other brilliant insights to offer?

You want a reason to be skeptical? Here's you go; I'm human, I have free will, and for no other reason other then I can because nothing stops me from being so.

So, like I said, you're just being skeptical for the sake of being skeptical. You don't have any good reasons for doubting the accusations, you just had to come here and tell us how "there are two sides!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" because you want to believe that it isn't true.

My reasons for skepicism are the same as yours for choosing to believe a maelstrom of controversy and rumors as hard facts, because you can.

No, actually I don't choose to believe anything. I don't know anything about the incident beyond what has been said in this thread. I just object to your obsessive skepticism and insistence on treating rape accusations with doubt that is completely disproportionate to the justifications for that doubt.

I - But you choose that title chain did you not? I thought as much, it's very telling about your character, my instincts tell me everything I need to know about you.

II - You can't look at one side of the coin and expect the whole truth from just half of the picture, there are two sides to every coin, just like there is two sides to ever story, you only see the truth once you look at both of them, until facts from both sides of the coin come to light there is no truth, honestly I hope that she is lying and was never raped as a child, if she was well then her father deserves to be punished for it, I still see nothing but painfully idle speculation.

III - Obsessive skepticism? If you consider this amount of skepticism obsessive then your view on the world is frighteningly narrow.

OK, this is a troll thread.

 Ouze wrote:
OK, this is a troll thread.

No, but it might as well be at this point.

Moderators, for the love of Russ lock this thread, at this point I am just waiting for Tzeentch to say "just as planned".

I was hoping for an intellectual discussion, but hope is the first step on the road to disappointment, at least in this instance.

I don't know what is to be discussed here.

None of us can say whether he's guilty or not. That's up to a court of law to decide.

If he is guilty, he is rapist scum and deserves everything he gets for the rest of his life.

If he is not guilty, his ex-wife is a dirty liar and must be persecutated with the full force of the law, to be sued all over her head for the rest of her life.

 Sigvatr wrote:
If he is not guilty, his ex-wife is a dirty liar.

She is not the one who reported it, although that was the initial story, and there were multiple victims. What triggered it is an assistant who walked in on him making out with his daughter who reported it to the police. I linked that fact in this very thread.

 Ouze wrote:
OK, this is a troll thread.

Quite.

If all you intend to do is simply yell abuse at other posters then there;'s no point to it