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Hello all,

I recently played a game with my Guard against Farsight Enclave and was nearly tabled by the last turn. I ran Punisher Pask with an Exicutionar, Plasma vets in a chimera with demolitions and gernadiers, priest with a conscripts, three squad platoon with heavy weapons, and a CCS. This being a 1250 game I realized my first mistake was not focusing my army enough. However, beyond that I still struggle against this army because of all of its suits. Its Riptide hits hard and moves too much and the crysis suits deep strike and take out my heavy armor before the can do any real damage. The few things he starts on the table, usally a hammerhead and riptide with pathfinders, manage to practically render my conscripts useless both as a mewt shield as well as a tar pit. Then whatever heavy hitting units that is left gets deep striked. I could really use some advice and tactics on how to combat this suit madness and deep striking.

Than you for the help

I have played IG and I currently play FE. I will tell you that the first thing you failed with was range. If you knew what you are facing, the first thing you should have done was to change all your tanks to be able to fire 36+ inches. Barrage is another great equalizer. a Master of Ordnance can do marvelous things when a crisis (it is only crysis if one of them is called Prophet) JSJs out of your LoS.

That being I need more range, would a baslisk or two in a blob with a defense line be a good start? Then I could still have a coulp leman russs and vetrans roam the field later in the game.

In specific regards to Tau, their ability to remove cover saves tends to diminish the value of an Aegis, for example.

Tau are very mobile, compared to Guard. They're also generally shorter ranged, at least with the big guns. You can typically expect some units to hold off around 30", some to pop in and out of LOS [buggers!] and then some will probably deep strike on top of you, to wreck your tanks.

So... my best advice is to hold back for a turn or two, to soften them up. By that time, his poppers and deep strikers are probably going to be hitting you, so start to move towards objectives. Tau often have trouble with AV 12+, so keep the Chimera pointed at them, and if you're running Hellhound variants you're probably doing ok.

He'll go after your Russes with Melta-Suits, so try to bubble wrap them with infantry, forcing him outside of 6", which should keep them alive fairly well.

Focus fire. I mean, FOCUS. Determine what's going to hurt you most, and what you can let fly for a turn. Deep Strike melta will wreck your tanks, and you need tanks to kill his Riptide, but if you ignore the Riptide he's going to slaughter your infantry... So go for whatever you can eliminate this turn. If you can wipe out his suits, but only damage his Riptide, go for the suits. If it's end game, and you need the infantry to secure an objective, protect the infantry.

Set traps. You know where he's going to go, so be ready to hit back with 3 or more units.

The only counter for mobility is mobility... or pseudo-mobility. Barrage weapons, outflank, and Deep Strike can all neutralize the ability of his suits to pop in and out of LOS. Take units that "ignore" intervening terrain, either by moving around it, or deploying around it... or just shooting over it.

Suits have certain things they are afraid of. Being T4 3+, that is usually battle cannons or bassies.

Riptides have two glaring weaknesses, CC and snipers. Ratlings make quick work of a riptide.

maceria wrote:
Riptides have two glaring weaknesses, CC and snipers. Ratlings make quick work of a riptide.

How?

How are sniper rifles making a big dent in a 5-wound MC with a 2+/5+ save and potentially FNP?

I don't like snipers all that much and tend to only use them on a PCS when I have a CCS running my blobs. With crysis suits being 3+ I was thinking about doing a tank commander Battle tank with with another battle tank buddy covered in a blob with a priest to put on the table and arrange it to prevent deep striking near them. Then In reserves I would be two Bane Hounds (the Chem cannons with poison 2+). This way the Tanks can work down the marker lights at the start and the hound will hopefully make quick work of the suits.

I'd advise bauble-wrapping tanks. How did you loose your vehicles? Did he popthem with a riptide and hammerhead? Did he pop them with melta suits? If the answer is melta than you've failed with bauble-wrapping. Consripts with a priest or comissar are really great at it.

 koooaei wrote:
I'd advise bauble-wrapping tanks. How did you loose your vehicles? Did he popthem with a riptide and hammerhead? Did he pop them with melta suits? If the answer is melta than you've failed with bauble-wrapping. Consripts with a priest or comissar are really great at it.

The first mistake I made was Pask in a Punisher I feel for this particular situation. I had a Priest/Conscript blob that got worn down by the Riptide and Hammerhead to the point that they were of almost know use against deep striking and the metlas hit. The problem comes back to Pask and trying to move him closer. Another mistake I made was separating my vets in chimeras from the main group too early on. I need to choose a different tank for Pask for these types of fights to make better use of the bubble wrap and range while note moving too much too early till his army is completely on the field.

Well, pask's great vs crysis suits. he has a 30' threat range, yep, but generally, if you make aproper 2' spread for your bauble wrap they shouldn't get killed in one turn emidiately.

 koooaei wrote:
Well, pask's great vs crysis suits. he has a 30' threat range, yep, but generally, if you make aproper 2' spread for your bauble wrap they shouldn't get killed in one turn emidiately.

I do need to use the conscripts better, just need to have more practice with them. It is hard trying to fit all of this into a 1250 point list. I still feel Pask could use a different tank besides the punisher for this so I can be able to put pressure on his Riptide and Hammerhead, but I don't which one. The vanquisher will make short work of the Hammerhead, but looses all practicality after it is gone and the battle tank can only do one wound or hull point at a time.

That'd be list tailoring if you change your list vs an exact opponent
I'm sure you can handle it with what you've allready got without a need to change stuff.

Look at it this way...he's wasting riptide's and hammerhead's firepower on 3 ppm guyz. That's allready a win-win.
Focus on his markers if there are any. As soon as he's out of markers, he can't buff BS and ignore cover. Means his firepower's 2 times less effective. Ignore the riptide mostly. Markers, crysis suits, broadsides - these are your main targets.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, who's your warlord? Pask or CCS?
Pask warlord makes squadronned executioner exceptionally good. But when Pask's not a warlord, personally i'd run an exterminator with heavy bolters as his squadron mate just cause it's a cheap effective tank. But as i've said allready, you can do with what you have allready.

You can also use your regular guyz to bauble wrap tanks. So that'd be an onion bauble wrap. Guards than conscripts on the outer layer.

Don't be afraid to shoot heavy weapons at his markers early on. They're force multipliers and the earlier you deal with them - the better. Even if you just force him to G2G it's allready gona be a huge thing.

I use Pask as the Warlord for that reason and has saved that tank countless times. I'll stick with list list again and see what happens; though I may change a few small things such as dropping the demo charges for camo netting or more conscripts. Thank for point out the list tailoring. It is something I don't want to do so our group will stay fun, I just got caught you with wanting to deal with crysis suits since it is a repetitive problem for me.

Santange11 wrote:
I use Pask as the Warlord for that reason and has saved that tank countless times. I'll stick with list list again and see what happens; though I may change a few small things such as dropping the demo charges for camo netting or more conscripts. Thank for point out the list tailoring. It is something I don't want to do so our group will stay fun, I just got caught you with wanting to deal with crysis suits since it is a repetitive problem for me.

Being both an IG and a FE player here are a few tips:

-How many conscripts are you running? Because even with Pathfinders a Hammerhead should not be obliterating your conscripts if you space them out correctly. Try to space out your conscripts a bit better and utilize terrain as much as possible.

-Crisis suits are literally x6 Space Marines with more firepower, Leman Russ Battle Tanks will do nasty things to them as they would only get a cover save (which if they fail 1 they die instantly) and being 72inch range solves your distance problem.

-Punisher Pask is a very good option, best variant for him IMO. Are you running him with Hull Lascannon and Multi-Meltas? You already have x20 shots with the Punisher Cannon, taking the Lascannon and Multi-Meltas gives you another answer to the Riptide. For his Squadron mates taking Standard Leman Russes or even Leman Russ Exterminators with Heavy Bolter Sponsons would not be a bad choice.

Pask is very good at dealing with whatever unit has deepstriked next to it. If he survives that long to shoot back of course. I wouldn't drop Punisher because it can't hit far. It'll take care of those that come close.

When bubblewrapping maybe you are not using enough conscripts. Also you can play with distances, there's the footprint of the unit needs to be deepstriked and it needs to be 1" from any of your units. You can keep your models 2" apart being in unit coherency, you don't need to touch your tanks with conscripts but keep in a distance (bit less than), so 1" from tank, DS footprint, 1" from conscripts. Minus the holes he'll blew in your squads of course.

Last time I ran 25 conscripts. You guys are probably right and I just need to work on my spacing. Next time, however, I am dropping the demolitions doctrine to bring more conscripts as well as camo netting for the tanks. In regards to Pask, I love him I the punisher and give him plasma cannons with a lascannon and then his exicutionar buddy multi meltas in case he gets shaken. How would you guys run the other platoon blob? I kept as many of them in terrian as possible and repeatedly gave them tank/monster hunter to widdle down the hammerhead and riptide with the CCS. Is that how I am supposed to use a blob like that and should I put a priest in it next time?

Santange11 wrote:
Last time I ran 25 conscripts. You guys are probably right and I just need to work on my spacing. Next time, however, I am dropping the demolitions doctrine to bring more conscripts as well as camo netting for the tanks. In regards to Pask, I love him I the punisher and give him plasma cannons with a lascannon and then his exicutionar buddy multi meltas in case he gets shaken. How would you guys run the other platoon blob? I kept as many of them in terrian as possible and repeatedly gave them tank/monster hunter to widdle down the hammerhead and riptide with the CCS. Is that how I am supposed to use a blob like that and should I put a priest in it next time?

I'm still not good with the LR names (they are just totally random), but Pask with gatling cannon should go with LC/MM to give him more punch against armor (you don't need more anti infantry power there), and his Plasma buddy should definitely come with plasma all around. That's pretty much the only LR variant that you can kit out all around for the same task (no auto cannon sponsons for exterminator or lascannon side sponsons for Vanquisher sadly).

Edit: and remember, no such thing as overkill!

Whip out as many psykers as you can. for telepthy goodness.

Even if they can increase there snap shots they wont be using blast templates.

Tau have nearly no answers to magic.

think of your best anti space marine list... bring that

 Desubot wrote:
Whip out as many psykers as you can. for telepthy goodness.

Even if they can increase there snap shots they wont be using blast templates.

Tau have nearly no answers to magic.

What spells are you talking about exactly?

The invisibility kind

It bones over any blasts and template.

Bonus points for getting close and psychic shreking em

Zsolt wrote:

Santange11 wrote:
Last time I ran 25 conscripts. You guys are probably right and I just need to work on my spacing. Next time, however, I am dropping the demolitions doctrine to bring more conscripts as well as camo netting for the tanks. In regards to Pask, I love him I the punisher and give him plasma cannons with a lascannon and then his exicutionar buddy multi meltas in case he gets shaken. How would you guys run the other platoon blob? I kept as many of them in terrian as possible and repeatedly gave them tank/monster hunter to widdle down the hammerhead and riptide with the CCS. Is that how I am supposed to use a blob like that and should I put a priest in it next time?

I'm still not good with the LR names (they are just totally random), but Pask with gatling cannon should go with LC/MM to give him more punch against armor (you don't need more anti infantry power there), and his Plasma buddy should definitely come with plasma all around. That's pretty much the only LR variant that you can kit out all around for the same task (no auto cannon sponsons for exterminator or lascannon side sponsons for Vanquisher sadly).

Edit: and remember, no such thing as overkill!

For Pask I use the Gatling gun and plasma cannons, and then put multi-metlas on the plasma tank so that if it gets shaken it can still shoot as well as Pask has a little more range to take advantage of him better at longer rangers.

As for pyskers, I have never used them mainly because I dont like the idea of magic, but playing more people I can see how effective it can be and will eventually start bringing them out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, can IG pyskers even take telepathy skills?

Santange11 wrote:

For Pask I use the Gatling gun and plasma cannons, and then put multi-metlas on the plasma tank so that if it gets shaken it can still shoot as well as Pask has a little more range to take advantage of him better at longer rangers.

Pask has BS4, blast weapons gain 1" from that while regular weapons gain 16,6% increase in to hit chance. So it's better to put multi melta on BS4 than on BS3, and it matters less for a plasma cannon.

As for pyskers, I have never used them mainly because I dont like the idea of magic

???
Don't worry, you won't burn in hell for using psykers in a game. Likely.

Also, can IG pyskers even take telepathy skills?

IG psykers can't take telepathy, Inquisition can.

Edit: There is really no point in swapping around sponson weapons in case you'll get crew shaken on a vehicle just for the sake of you can shoot with something on it.

Here's my 1500 list I wrote up for a carnage event our club is sponsoring right before Christmas. Admittedly not the most uber competitive list but hey - I bet no one's used to having 8 torrented flamers, thanks to the pipes, as they approach a triple void shielded army And that's after being pummeled by a pair of wyverns, a manticore, two plasma cannon toting sentinals and a pie plate from the Master of Ordinance. Primaris psyker for a minor amount of buffing - maybe removing cover saves on a plasma cannon. Not as fast as I like but the two chimeras can make a late break for objectives.

Primaris Psyker, ML2
CCS, HF, Flamer, Lascannon, MOO
Vet Squad HF, 2xFlammer, Lascannon
Vet Squad HF, 2xFlammer, Lascannon

Vet Squad, Demolition, 3xmelta, chimera
Vet Squad, Demolition, 3xmelta, chimera

Vendetta
Armoured Sentinel, PC
Armoured Sentinel, PC

Wyvern Battery
Wyvern
Wyvern
Manticore

Void Relay Network
Void Shield Generator, 2x additional shields, 6x barricades
Promethium Relay Pipes

Psyker can only add ignore cover to itself and it's unit, so it will never happen with a sentinel/Leman Russ (Prescience though works with any unit).

Zsolt wrote:

IG psykers can't take telepathy, Inquisition can.

Astropaths can though honestly did forget that the rest cannot :/

o well inquisitors are cheap

If I do a pysker I would put him with the platoon blob and try to stack ignore conver and presince to that blob.

 Desubot wrote:

Zsolt wrote:

IG psykers can't take telepathy, Inquisition can.

Astropaths can though honestly did forget that the rest cannot :/

o well inquisitors are cheap

Yeah, astropaths can only take telepathy, forgot that. Inq psykers (psyker in henchman) are likely the cheapest warp charge in the game, while Inquisitors are more expensive (55pts for bare inq with lvl1 psy), but have useful toys which can buff a blob.