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I think LotD should get a mention.

But they're elites.

White Scar bikers can't hear you over the sound of the malestrom points they are scoring.

Massive mobility that can't be compromised until the model is actually dead. Great density of special weapons and the speed to make Melta effective. Relentless, which is a godsend for grav-guns. Twin Linked bolt guns, which are always handy either for forcing grounding checks or scraping hull points off flyers or reducing hordes. Toughness Five, Strength 5 hammer of wrath and krak grenades means you can take a grav loadout and still batter most tanks through hull pointing in shooting and assault. Hit and run makes it so much easier to hide in combat . Ignoring terrain is great insurance against the -2 to charging in difficult ground. They are point for point the hardest shooting SM troop type and also a big threat in assault to vehicles or support infantry.

 Silverthorne wrote:
White Scar bikers can't hear you over the sound of the malestrom points they are scoring.

Massive mobility that can't be compromised until the model is actually dead. Great density of special weapons and the speed to make Melta effective. Relentless, which is a godsend for grav-guns. Twin Linked bolt guns, which are always handy either for forcing grounding checks or scraping hull points off flyers or reducing hordes. Toughness Five, Strength 5 hammer of wrath and krak grenades means you can take a grav loadout and still batter most tanks through hull pointing in shooting and assault. Hit and run makes it so much easier to hide in combat . Ignoring terrain is great insurance against the -2 to charging in difficult ground. They are point for point the hardest shooting SM troop type and also a big threat in assault to vehicles or support infantry.

dont forget the on-demand 3+ cover save.

Seriously I don't know what OP was thinking, there is a reason Bikes are THE go to troop choice.

^^; Probably forgot, like I did, that Bikes A) can be troops and B) are wearing power armour.

At least it won't last too long with the current trend.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
They're still outshone by Battle Sisters, who for a couple points cheaper have the same special weapon advantages, a better transport, more survivability (most AP3 guns don't care if you're T4 or T3, but they sure care if you have an invulnerable save) and greater numbers. Sure, the Sisters can't perform in close combat quite as well (although Preferred Enemy helps), but in a shooting game or a surviving game, and with easy access to Fearless?

Grey Hunters don't hold a candle.

Agreed, 5 Battle Sisters in a Repressor rocking Flamer/Heavy Flamer or 2 Meltas are some of the best troops in the game simply because of the special weapons they get an AV 13 Repressor being the best armour value in the game points wise. They also horde better because throw a Priest of two in a large unit and you will be getting a 3+ re-rollable save in combat while re-rolling to wound. Cheaper, more special weapons, invulnerable save, Act of Faith, better transport. They are just better everywhere it matters.

Wow, this is the first time I've seen someone make the argument that Sisters are the best PA troop in the game. I love my Sisters, but they suffer from the problem that they need to get into assault range to get the the most use of their special weapons (No plasma, missiles, or lascannons). From there once their metal box of choice is popped, any sort of decent assault will grind them down even without AP3 weapons. Repressors are nice, but with a rear AV of 10, they die as easy Rhinos in assault. All told I'd say Battle Sister troops are middle of the road. They have a good short ranged punch with a semi-glass jaw (as far as PA armies go), and struggle with armies that survive their alpha strike.

 koooaei wrote:
At least it won't last too long with the current trend.

:(

I've played two space marine armies since 4th ed-- Mentor Legion 8th company on bikes and with jetpacks. I just lost 50% of my army so GW could sell some more tactical squads with blood droplets on them, I reallllllly hope I don't loose the other one. They just need to make tactical squads more interesting. They were briefly interesting during 3rd-4th when they could assault out of rhinos or spam las-plas but now they are one of the most boring units in the game.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
They're still outshone by Battle Sisters, who for a couple points cheaper have the same special weapon advantages, a better transport, more survivability (most AP3 guns don't care if you're T4 or T3, but they sure care if you have an invulnerable save) and greater numbers. Sure, the Sisters can't perform in close combat quite as well (although Preferred Enemy helps), but in a shooting game or a surviving game, and with easy access to Fearless?

Is this sarcasm?

Or, do you really play games where no weapons are AP4 or worse?

If so, wow, 40k is in an even worse state than I realised.

the_hanged_man wrote:
Wow, this is the first time I've seen someone make the argument that Sisters are the best PA troop in the game. I love my Sisters, but they suffer from the problem that they need to get into assault range to get the the most use of their special weapons (No plasma, missiles, or lascannons). From there once their metal box of choice is popped, any sort of decent assault will grind them down even without AP3 weapons. Repressors are nice, but with a rear AV of 10, they die as easy Rhinos in assault. All told I'd say Battle Sister troops are middle of the road. They have a good short ranged punch with a semi-glass jaw (as far as PA armies go), and struggle with armies that survive their alpha strike.

That was my understanding as well.

 vipoid wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
They're still outshone by Battle Sisters, who for a couple points cheaper have the same special weapon advantages, a better transport, more survivability (most AP3 guns don't care if you're T4 or T3, but they sure care if you have an invulnerable save) and greater numbers. Sure, the Sisters can't perform in close combat quite as well (although Preferred Enemy helps), but in a shooting game or a surviving game, and with easy access to Fearless?

Is this sarcasm?

Or, do you really play games where no weapons are AP4 or worse?

If so, wow, 40k is in an even worse state than I realised.

No, I just have faith in my power armour :p

Against small arms fire power armor T3 and power armor T4 are not the same beast though. and small arms fire exists in fair amounts even in the most minmaxed metas.

 koooaei wrote:
But they're elites.

Sorry, I thought their "codex" made them troops. NM

Depending on how liberal one gets with the term power armour, Terminator Armour and Crisis Battlesuits are forms of powered armour that are available as troop choices.

 Silverthorne wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
At least it won't last too long with the current trend.

:(

I've played two space marine armies since 4th ed-- Mentor Legion 8th company on bikes and with jetpacks. I just lost 50% of my army so GW could sell some more tactical squads with blood droplets on them, I reallllllly hope I don't loose the other one. They just need to make tactical squads more interesting. They were briefly interesting during 3rd-4th when they could assault out of rhinos or spam las-plas but now they are one of the most boring units in the game.

Noone forces you to get rid of them. Just use the bikes as fast attack - the place they're supposed to be.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Against small arms fire power armor T3 and power armor T4 are not the same beast though. and small arms fire exists in fair amounts even in the most minmaxed metas.

I've seen a batrep with Megagrots! The guyz are t2 with 2+ armor...iirc. That's hilarious.

I agree, Grey Hunters in particular are the best marines in the game. The banner is crazy too.

/Jealous CSM player

Noone forces you to get rid of them. Just use the bikes as fast attack - the place they're supposed to be.

Is that why all the bikes that are actualy being used in eldar, sm or DA are troops? FA bikers or Amarines are rather bad, considering their tax always boosts them over the cost of troop bikes in other armies.

I feel that Noise marines are one of the best meq units. I5 makes the strike faster than other marines and fearless so they stay and fight. Access to blastmaster one of the best marine killing guns in the game and a nice ap3 str5 doom siren. My only issuses with them is if you go too crazy with them they get expensive fast and they really don't have a reliable way to get rid of tanks and 2+ except a meltabomb combi melta champ (you can give him a powerfist but waste I5). I usually run about six with a blastmaster, champ with a powersword, combi melta, meltabombs, ccw for everyone in a rhino. They just stick around a objective and shoot blastmasters out of the hatch. Then come out and fight anything that gets close. Does pretty well and beats down all kinds of loyalist marines equivalents.

Grey knight strike squads...psycannon is easily the best heavy weapon a power armor troop can carry. It's an assault cannon on crack. Can blow up AV 14, can put multiple wounds on MC, and is only a little less effective at taking down 2+ saves. Standard storm bolters effectively doubles the squads ranged firepower - not to mention the 30 inch threat range. In melee Str 6 power weapons. Honestly, If everything else the grey knights had wasn't EVEN Better than this I would just spam strike squads and easily beat any marines on the board. GH are great because they make great use of a drop pod with their counter attack and cheap special weapons so I'm with you on that. Most other power armor units are just bleh. Bikes are a different story but still the winners IMO will always be SS and GH at least until some new units come out.

 westiebestie wrote:
I agree, Grey Hunters in particular are the best marines in the game. The banner is crazy too.

/Jealous CSM player

The banner used to be crazy, no kinda meh, also not the only army that gets something like that. Grey knights also get it with the brotherhood banner and maybe vanilla marines and BA, but not sure.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Grey knight strike squads...psycannon is easily the best heavy weapon a power armor troop can carry. It's an assault cannon on crack. Can blow up AV 14, can put multiple wounds on MC, and is only a little less effective at taking down 2+ saves. Standard storm bolters effectively doubles the squads ranged firepower - not to mention the 30 inch threat range. In melee Str 6 power weapons. Honestly, If everything else the grey knights had wasn't EVEN Better than this I would just spam strike squads and easily beat any marines on the board. GH are great because they make great use of a drop pod with their counter attack and cheap special weapons so I'm with you on that. Most other power armor units are just bleh. Bikes are a different story but still the winners IMO will always be SS and GH at least until some new units come out.

It's not that GH's special weapons are cheaper - they pay the same amount as everyone else. The difference is that we don't have access to heavy weapons, so we can specialize the squad with 2 specials.