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Do you still hey your FNP against the effects to of the black mace abilty?

Yes, I think so. FNP is not a save... and the bonus wounds do not have a strength value, so they aren't doubling out the fnp.

I have to disagree. The mace removes the model from play, there are no wounds being dealt. Therefore no FNP

Good point, I was referring to the subsequent wounds inflicted on the models within 3", since those do not say remove from play.

So now, I'm not so sure. Maybe No fnp on the original wounded model, but the extra 3" ones would allow fnp?

I don't believe attribute tests allow saves of any kind. Lets see here... "If the result is greater than the number in the model’s profile, the test has been failed, and something unusual will occur, as detailed in the rule that prompted the test."

Ok, so if you fail the test you go right to the effect. What is the effect? "Any models that fail the test suffer a Wound with no saves of any kind allowed"

Yeah looks like no FnP to me.

 changerofways wrote:
I don't believe attribute tests allow saves of any kind. Lets see here... "If the result is greater than the number in the model’s profile, the test has been failed, and something unusual will occur, as detailed in the rule that prompted the test."

Ok, so if you fail the test you go right to the effect. What is the effect? "Any models that fail the test suffer a Wound with no saves of any kind allowed"

Yeah looks like no FnP to me.

You are allowed to take FnP against wounds that disallow saves of any kind because FNP is not a save. Thats why you can FNP against perils and such

So since the Black Mace causes wounds, yes you can take FNP against it.

Ah, that's right, FnP is not a save. Forgot that. I was wrong.

I always allowed FNP saves off autohits from the Black Mace. Wondering what the justification would be for not allowing them.

I get it that some people may be confused by whether or not these are wounds, but what are the circumstance where FNP does not kick in after a save? Wouldn't the Black Mace need to be hitting at, like, Str 10? What if the wounds were caused by a smash attack?

A smash attack would have no effect on the extra wounds the black mace causes at the end of the combat subphase (I1 right?), because they have nothing to do with the way the wielder has attacked: they simply happen as long as you deal at least one wound.

And seeing as they are based on a toughness test, they have no Str score and cannot have a Str equal to twice the target's Toughness to ignore FnP.

Exactly so.

The Black Mace causes damage in three stages:

Basic attacks: Feel No Pain is (potentially) allowed - whilst the black mace has fleshbane, it also has a strength value which may be enough to remove Feel No Pain (especially in the hands of a daemon prince).

Toughness-test-or-die on wounded model: This effect 'removes from the game' rather than causing wounds, so no Feel No Pain roll is possible

'Burst' effect from wielder: This effect causes wounds with no saves allowed. As there is no listed strength value, Feel No Pain is allowed as it is explicitely not a save.

Ok thanks alot guys i've learned alot lol that FNP could have saved alot of my DP's lol

My question is does a wound inflicted by rolling a one on the daemon weapon table cause the bearer to take a toughness test?

No, because Daemon Weapons don't benefit from the abilities of the weapon itself when a 1 is rolled to self-wound