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casvalremdeikun wrote:if you want to take the Angel's Wrath formation you need one Squad of Vanguard Veterans and two squads of Assault Marines. So they definitely have a place. It is a good way to get more Assault Squads on the board. VVs aren't terrible, better things exist for the Elites slot. Hence why the formation is good.

Good to know. My elites are overcrowded (I wish DC were fast attack and ASM were troops) but I might just kitbash a squad together anyway.

PanzerLeader wrote:I'm thinking of putting a squad of 6 or 7 in my TAC list with melta bombs for everybody. Throw in a priest and Knights will have to be leary of getting too close.

Sounds fun. Grey Knights or Wraith Knights? There are plenty of both in my area lol.

BaronVonSnakPak wrote:

casvalremdeikun wrote:if you want to take the Angel's Wrath formation you need one Squad of Vanguard Veterans and two squads of Assault Marines. So they definitely have a place. It is a good way to get more Assault Squads on the board. VVs aren't terrible, better things exist for the Elites slot. Hence why the formation is good.

Good to know. My elites are overcrowded (I wish DC were fast attack and ASM were troops) but I might just kitbash a squad together anyway.

PanzerLeader wrote:I'm thinking of putting a squad of 6 or 7 in my TAC list with melta bombs for everybody. Throw in a priest and Knights will have to be leary of getting too close.

Sounds fun. Grey Knights or Wraith Knights? There are plenty of both in my area lol.

Dreadknights, Wraith Knights, Imperial Knights, Stompas...none of those really want to run into melta bombs that strike with WS5.

Razerous wrote:
Again, Dreads are still disembarking from the Raven, same difference. Those embarked tacticals are the same.

Now the key question is, how to make this formation effective? I would also suggest including some form of reserve manipulation, as you may need help to get those assaulting units into play.

Well the ones mentioned so far would be the command rhino or i think it was tigger that had the +1 or -1 options. and i think some sort of bunker or LOS blocking shainananges to keep the rhino safe and to add a com relay

A lot of that army is off table and not all of them get rerolls to reserves.

would be the obvious start.

But i do not know the price of that rhino.

 Desubot wrote:

Razerous wrote:
Again, Dreads are still disembarking from the Raven, same difference. Those embarked tacticals are the same.

Now the key question is, how to make this formation effective? I would also suggest including some form of reserve manipulation, as you may need help to get those assaulting units into play.

Well the ones mentioned so far would be the command rhino or i think it was tigger that had the +1 or -1 options. and i think some sort of bunker or LOS blocking shainananges to keep the rhino safe and to add a com relay

A lot of that army is off table and not all of them get rerolls to reserves.

would be the obvious start.

But i do not know the price of that rhino.

I'd just shake the other guy's hand if my storm ravens don't come in and just ask for a rematch immediately . 3+ rerollable isn't so bad, it just means you automatically lose 12% of the time

benjak wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

Razerous wrote:
Again, Dreads are still disembarking from the Raven, same difference. Those embarked tacticals are the same.

Now the key question is, how to make this formation effective? I would also suggest including some form of reserve manipulation, as you may need help to get those assaulting units into play.

Well the ones mentioned so far would be the command rhino or i think it was tigger that had the +1 or -1 options. and i think some sort of bunker or LOS blocking shainananges to keep the rhino safe and to add a com relay

A lot of that army is off table and not all of them get rerolls to reserves.

would be the obvious start.

But i do not know the price of that rhino.

I'd just shake the other guy's hand if my storm ravens don't come in and just ask for a rematch immediately . 3+ rerollable isn't so bad, it just means you automatically lose 12% of the time

Like I said earlier (or perhaps in another thread), take a Librarian in Terminator armor and the Archangels detachment and stuff Libby somewhere that it would be incredibly difficult to get at him, and then let the magic happen.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

benjak wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

Razerous wrote:
Again, Dreads are still disembarking from the Raven, same difference. Those embarked tacticals are the same.

Now the key question is, how to make this formation effective? I would also suggest including some form of reserve manipulation, as you may need help to get those assaulting units into play.

Well the ones mentioned so far would be the command rhino or i think it was tigger that had the +1 or -1 options. and i think some sort of bunker or LOS blocking shainananges to keep the rhino safe and to add a com relay

A lot of that army is off table and not all of them get rerolls to reserves.

would be the obvious start.

But i do not know the price of that rhino.

I'd just shake the other guy's hand if my storm ravens don't come in and just ask for a rematch immediately . 3+ rerollable isn't so bad, it just means you automatically lose 12% of the time

Like I said earlier (or perhaps in another thread), take a Librarian in Terminator armor and the Archangels detachment and stuff Libby somewhere that it would be incredibly difficult to get at him, and then let the magic happen.

Yup you could certainly do that but for me personally, it would bother my sense of verisimilitude to have the libby in terminator armour on the field by his lonesome. I'd much rather have him go into battle surrounded by his terminator cadre.More fun for me

Bring in the scouts with cloaks. Would be pretty fluffy.

Surely a drop pod and taking the second player turn is the best bet. That way your opponent can shoot anything he likes on the board but your drop pod will be guaranteed to come in at the start of your turn. Remember you don't lose from having no models in the table until the end of the game turn.

This formation lets us roll for reserves from turn 1 correct?
Does it state what we need to roll for them?

3+ re roll-able

You get a 3+ rerollable to have the Stormravens come in on the 1st turn. You can have a drop-pod on the first turn but what would you put in it?

Just that you can so i would assume a 3+ as normal.

But yeah i think the drop pod method would be best.

Check to see if the formation comes in. if it doesn't bring in a cheap pod with something cheap some where safe. otherwise bring in your heavy hitters with the formation.

Why not a DC Dread with blood talons for ultimate lulz against vehicles or elites.

I bet it would give quite a lot of untis a run for its monies.

 Desubot wrote:
Just that you can so i would assume a 3+ as normal.

But yeah i think the drop pod method would be best.

Check to see if the formation comes in. if it doesn't bring in a cheap pod with something cheap some where safe. otherwise bring in your heavy hitters with the formation.

Why not a DC Dread with blood talons for ultimate lulz against vehicles or elites.

I bet it would give quite a lot of untis a run for its monies.

I'm running the dc dread in the grapples hot drop that bad boy.

 Desubot wrote:
Just that you can so i would assume a 3+ as normal.

But yeah i think the drop pod method would be best.

Check to see if the formation comes in. if it doesn't bring in a cheap pod with something cheap some where safe. otherwise bring in your heavy hitters with the formation.

Why not a DC Dread with blood talons for ultimate lulz against vehicles or elites.

I bet it would give quite a lot of untis a run for its monies.

Good idea. I'm kinda iffy on the first turn assault from drop-pods so maybe a Furioso with frag-cannon/heavy flamer? AV13 and 2 str 6 flamer templates followed by a str 5 template can be a serious distraction.

Damocles is 75 pts. It also comes with a teleport beacon and orbital bombardment in addition to allowing +1/-1 on reserve rolls. It's a 0-1 HQ selection that doesn't take up a FOC slot.

75 pts to make sure you only fail that reserve roll 2.8% of the time - ain't bad!

Just so I can take stock of everything and sort of centralize it, can anyone list the current formations/dataslates available to BA? WD, online, and supplements? When I finally spend the money to revamp (lawl) my Blood Angels, I'd like to be able to get everything, because...y'know, options.

Also, to clarify the rerollable 3+ for reserves for the Fury formation is on turn 1?

Archangel Strike Force Detachment is in Shield of Baal: Exterminatus.
Angel's Fury and Angel's Wrath Formation are in this weeks White Dwarf.

This formation (spearhead) is very cool, however I don't think it will be viable in Comp 1850 lists.

If you invest in x3 Ravens + x3 Tac you are at 1020 points.

This leaves you ~800 points for the rest of your army.

Lists that I have considered were

x3 Ravens + x3 Tac. 2 Tac units had 2 Melta, 1 Tac unit had 2 plasma.

x2 Tac With Heavy Flamer Drop Pod.

This leaves you at 1320. You also have room for combi weapons on the sargs.

x5 ASM 2 Melta, 1 Combi Melta, Drop Pod. This allows you to mess around with T1 Pods.

x5 DC JP 1 PW
x5 DC JP 1 PW

This allows us to abuse the DS and assault rule. Remember DC will slaughter most units. I may consider throwing in 1 more PW, or another DC model.

You are at 1725. You still need an HQ, but should be a fun, semi comp list.

 Carnage43 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
2. Death Company - Quick question: Why would you EVER take a bolt pistol with these guys? I get that the extra attack is cool, but the Bolter tossing out its Rapid Fire is better. You then charge in and mop up with Rage. 5-15 man squads means I won't have problems fielding a ton of blood-crazed maniacs with my FOUR elite slots. I am going to run a full squad of Jump DC with a Chaplain wearing the Wings of Angels. Which brings me to...

Bolters are the last nail in a potentially game losing fail chain. You want the hammer of wrath attack in combat...so you have to use your JP in the assault phase, so you cost yourself 6" in the movement phase. Which means you already have a potentially 6" longer charge. Double tapping bolters increases that charge range again...sometimes by nothing, sometimes by enough to make you miss the charge, which, unless your opponent is "slow", will result in a dead death company squad. With the new formation giving +1I, there's no reason NOT to take BP/CCW, as you will be attacking first 99% of the time anyways, and you shouldn't need the bolters to thin out the target for melee unless you are really desperate.

I really disagree with your assessment. Yes, if you are using the bolters to shoot at the target you plan to charge, then you might ruin your charge. I completely agree that, under those conditions, bolters are not worth it. As has previously been noted by Martel732, the charge will generally be enough to wreck the enemy unit. Why do I bring that up? It means that the presence of the death company itself can be used as a movement deterrent. People will not want to themselves in a position where they will get charged. Board control like this is awesome. Where do bolters come in? Simple: they give you reach to impact the board, even with just 10 shots, on places you cannot impact with your charge.

Also, on rare occasions you may find your DC at near point-blank range with the enemy. Those moments will be ideal times to double-tap + charge. e

HalfBlood wrote:
This formation (spearhead) is very cool, however I don't think it will be viable in Comp 1850 lists.

If you invest in x3 Ravens + x3 Tac you are at 1020 points....You still need an HQ, but should be a fun, semi comp list.

I ran the points on a list a little bit ago. Run the Angel's Fury detachment with the Angel's Wrath detachment (1x 7-man Vanguard Vets, 2x 7-man Assault Squads) and a Damocles Rhino - using detachments only, you don't need any HQs and the Damocles doesn't take up a FOC slot. The VV Sgt will be the Warlord. 51 infantry, 3 flyers, 1 tank that hides behind cover for the first turn. You can tool up each of the squads pretty well. In fact, I could go more bare bones and fit more bodies in pretty easily.

Sorry if this is a dumb question, having some trouble figuring out how that formation works list-wise.

So if you take the formation with 3 ravens and 3 tac squads, is that technically a detachment? You still need an HQ, but are the 3 tac squads from the formation sufficient for your force org that requires 2 troops? or do you need 2 MORE troops in addition?

You need to more troops and an HQ if you're using a CAD or BSFD alongside the Formation.

 Rezyn wrote:
Sorry if this is a dumb question, having some trouble figuring out how that formation works list-wise.

So if you take the formation with 3 ravens and 3 tac squads, is that technically a detachment? You still need an HQ, but are the 3 tac squads from the formation sufficient for your force org that requires 2 troops? or do you need 2 MORE troops in addition?

Unless you take the Detachment that allows for 16 Elites.

OK so the formation is like a small detachment in addition to any other formation your army is using. So you cant "add to" the formation to make it 1 detachment so to speak.

Well a formation is a "special detachment"

and any battle forged list can have any number of them.

Im however not sure if it can be the only detachment of a battle forged list or not.

Edit, ninja'd

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I remember a game 2v2 when I battled with my DoA army vs Nids and Eldar.
The SG really had a problem to shine since there were literally no Nids they were good against.
All four players agreed on this.

I can see some use for a SG against a Dev. or Havoc unit.
But otherwise. Hmm.

I find that they are best used as a counter attack unit, like banshees in the Eldar codex. Used to use them with axes to dig Mephy out of combat with 2+ armor save units. Can fill same role now only cheaper and with more killing power (more bodies).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 wuestenfux wrote:

HandofMars wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
The elite section looks quite congested:
Termies, Dreads, Cmd squad, Vanguard, Sternguard, DC.
I'd take DC in the first place.

The formation gives you an extra elite slot.

Atm, I think I'll not need a fourth elite slot.
Two times ten DC Marines is a good starting point.

I think 4 squads of 5 > 2 squads of 10. Why? If your enemy fires enough shots to kill 7 DC, then you are making them waste firepower with the 5 man squad. They can still work together to have the same effect in combat as 10 man squads. Its a good plan if you don't need all those elite spots


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tamwulf wrote:
Got the Codex. My jaw dropped when I got to Tycho. Had to read it, reread it, and try and find something elsewhere in the codex. I hope I'm just overlooking it, but...


TYCHO HAS NO CLOSE COMBAT WEAPON. None. No knife, no Deadman's hand, no chainsword, no power weapon... nadda, zip. He does have digital weapons, and a whole bunch of special rules to help him in close combat, but NO CLOSE COMBAT WEAPON.

Yes he does. He has a bolt pistol. Pistols = CCW

I feel squads of 5 DC is way too small. If you lost ~2-3 models you lose alot of killing power. 10 Models is too much though.

I run 2 units of 8 with PW and PF JP in my lists and it seems to do very well. T2 assaults usually.

The magic number will be 7-8.


Back to talking about the Spearhead formation,

I can see this getting used in larger point games. Maybe around 2000-2500.

People were talking about running the X16 Elite formation with the Spearhead formation. It can be interesting. But each unit of Terminator costs ~200 points. Which seems like too costly.

Too bad you can take DC :(

Take Furioso Dreadnoughts in Drop Pods. They are cheaper than Terminators.

I am still not on board with that. I feel like that will get FaQed. to disallow units from drop pods from assaulting using this special rule.

Well Ether way its a good idea to get drop pods in as.

1) this allows you to go second and take a whole turn of no shooting
2) emergency units in case you fail your 2-3 + rerollables.