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 winterwind85 wrote:

 mixer86 wrote:
I think i'm gonna go with this for 1850:

Furioso Libby Dread- Mastery Level 2, Drop Pod

Furioso- Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod
Furioso- Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod
Furioso- Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod

Mortis Contemptor- 2 Kheres Assault Cannons
Mortis Contemptor- 2 Kheres Assault Cannons

Empty Drop Pod

Imperial Knight Errant
Imperial Knight Errant

Furioso's All drop turn 1, libby and spare pod later on.

Coz, you know, i like having friends

Very boring to Play against

Good job i won't have to play AGAINST it then.

Trust me in my area people use far worse lists. AstraDar being a big one and CronAir.

No, BA bikers can't be troops.

Well, I have a full BA company with jump packs.
I'm planning for 2 times 10 DC with jump packs,
3 Baals, and Scouts as troops.
But how about HQ and anti air?

Why would you use Baal over a tri-las fast pred now? All my Baals are going in the closet. They are a fail as a Heavy Support.

Jump captain with ap2 sword and maybe a priest.

Anti air would be getting your butt into CC

But otherwise another option is ether the storm reven and chuck your scouts into it (maybe give one a melta bomb so you can clutch assault a vehicle that needs dieing) or get some kinda fortification.

AT martel: its probably because he doesn't only play against Eldar. please explain to me how the baals are fail? can you even do it without comparing it to another army?

Martel732 wrote:
Why would you use Baal over a tri-las fast pred now? All my Baals are going in the closet. They are a fail as a Heavy Support.

If the tri las Preds can be made fast, I will switch them.

How about psykers and psychic defense?

For AA your options are Stormraven, Fortifications or just ignoring it (with a list like that, you should be far enough forward that many fliers will just overshoot you when they come on, so that is a legitimate option). You could also bring the Stormwing formation to get some Talons in, but that would be expensive. Depending on how far you're going with Scouts, I think an ADL with Quad could be a good option. Deploy it on the centre line, infiltrate your scouts on it, and T1 gain a 4+ cover for your jumpers as well!

HQ I'd take a pair of JP Libbies to run with the DC for Prescience or BA magic if you can afford them.

Baals kill mainly light/medium infantry. Boltguns and S4 hth attacks also kill light/medium infantry. The new BA codex has those things in spades. The BA don't need a streep sweeper tank in their heavy slot. They need something to engage armor and 2+ armor saves.

Tri-las pred is nothing special against Eldar. They just jink it and "LULZ stupid Imperium! Bring your meqs closer so we can pseudo-rend them all to death!" I'm not bitter, honest.

The tri-las pred is good in a general sense. Decent durability, can fire all weapons after 6" move. Kills stuff that it is pointed at.

 Desubot wrote:
Jump captain with ap2 sword and maybe a priest.

Why bother with a jump captain when you are running another HQ? Dante will whip any captain you can make by a large margin.

Anti air would be getting your butt into CC

I don't think I need to explain why that doesn't work.

AT martel: its probably because he doesn't only play against Eldar. please explain to me how the baals are fail? can you even do it without comparing it to another army?

We actually have to play AGAINST other armies...so we should be comparing ourselves against them. When comparing yourself to others, you don't compare yourself to the worst/average, you compare yourself to the best.

Example:
"I completed the 100m dash 4 times faster than the kid with 1 leg!" - no
"I completed the 100m dash 5 seconds behind the world record!" - yes

No one cares about the worst, as the obstacles to over come are the best.

We have a good many options now for our HQ slot. Captain withan ap2 sword is fine, and will provide a decent combat character for not a lot of points, but we have better options. Librarians seem awesome with the new sanguinary discipline and the special force staff, sanguinary priests are good (duh), and librarian dreads seem awesome too.

So if you sit there compare anything and everything to eldar its obviously going to look bad

that is an issue with Eldar and hardly makes a Baal a complete fail.

I suggested a regular Cap as quite a lot of peeps have issues with LOW and named characters. its just the middle ground.

If you are locked in combat, you are not getting roasted by hell drakes no? obviously if you are playing on nothing but a flat open desert then any army will wreck a assault based army.

Against Eldar three trilas Predators could work, but only if they are fast.
Over the years, players have thrown all kind of things against my Falcons/Serpents and nothing has really worked.

 Desubot wrote:
So if you sit there compare anything and everything to eldar its obviously going to look bad

that is an issue with Eldar and hardly makes a Baal a complete fail.

I suggested a regular Cap as quite a lot of peeps have issues with LOW and named characters. its just the middle ground.

If you are locked in combat, you are not getting roasted by hell drakes no? obviously if you are playing on nothing but a flat open desert then any army will wreck a assault based army.

I already explained this. The Baal is a fail because there are much better choices in the heavy slot. That makes it a fail. Not the Eldar. Everything in this codex is equally fail against them.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Against Eldar three trilas Predators could work, but only if they are fast.
Over the years, players have thrown all kind of things against my Falcons/Serpents and nothing has really worked.

Man reminds me of the dumb amount of shooting i did against a single viper that jinked my entire army

Then i assaulted it and it was k.

And too that better choices? its only better choices for you due to the rest of the army being filled with anti infantry. They are still fast thanks with a boat load of shots is less effected by shaken and stun results compared to a tri las and can still shoot compared to a vindi, wont get roasted like devastators, and dont cost an arm and a leg compared to a land raiders.

a Baal is also useful for a few specific armies as well. it can mulch through orks and deldar and guard blobs alike. its a bit redundant but that hardly makes it a fail.

I don't list tailor. The Baal has no place in any list I will ever make with this codex. That's a fail.

Martel732 wrote:
I don't list tailor. The Baal has no place in any list I will ever make with this codex. That's a fail.

Not only the Baals.
As said there are several HS options but none might be the right one in a competitive setting.
Competitive setting and the new BA, this might not get together.

@ martel Well if that's your opinion then theirs nothing left to discus.

Not quite. I don't understand why you think any BA list needs more S5-6 attacks. This is the same list that can charge for S5 and frag cannon for S6 and is stuck using tac marines for troops.

Yeah, the Baal is fun, and was a defensible use of points when you could outflank it and try getting rear armor shots, but I don't see it as useful now. Anti-infantry is already the best use for many of our best units. It's the same reason the whirlwind will rarely be an efficient use of points - even if it's good enough in a vacuum at it's cost, the things it wants to target will already be getting killed by a Furioso or something.

Martel732 wrote:
Not quite. I don't understand why you think any BA list needs more S5-6 attacks. This is the same list that can charge for S5 and frag cannon for S6 and is stuck using tac marines for troops.

Its because tactical alone are not even remotely enough anti infantry when people arent busy dumping 2 troops and the rest into tanks or whatever.
and not everyone plays like that.
or hides everything in serpents.
The redunancy is useful considering charges arent aways viable.
Defensive grenades can mess em up baddly.

I can assure you that the DC doesn't care about defensive grenades.

If target is really obnoxious, I've got drop pod frag cannons, which are way more efficacious than a TL AC and 2 X heavy bolter. And don't suck up a heavy slot.

Martel732 wrote:
I can assure you that the DC doesn't care about defensive grenades.

If target is really obnoxious, I've got drop pod frag cannons, which are way more efficacious than a TL AC and 2 X heavy bolter. And don't suck up a heavy slot.

Not everyone takes drop pods. it takes up an elite slot that should be pretty full. IIRC should be more pricy and cant be clutch anti air/fmc. Edit: Also can get locked in combat (not always bad but can get bogged down)

Like i said if thats your opinion and you dont feel like budging then there isnt much to discus.

We just did discuss it.

If you are shooting a Baal at air or fmc, you are in serious trouble already.

The real problem is now the Baal is scrapping with tri-las preds and Stormravens and vindicators for a spot. That just seems crazy to me.

Martel732 wrote:
We just did discuss it.

If you are shooting a Baal at air or fmc, you are in serious trouble already.

The real problem is now the Baal is scrapping with tri-las preds and Stormravens and vindicators for a spot. That just seems crazy to me.

In an army that legitimately is hurting in the anti air sector..
All im saying is they are not imperially trash. not 100% auto takes OMG op nerf now. but they are hardly Vespid levels of trash.

If I want anti-air, I'll just use the Stormraven and get better guns in the process. Strictly speaking, they are not as bad as Vespids, but the competition is too stiff in their slot.

Obviously better guns and uses but they are also pricy (in both ways)

The predator itself isn't cheap. Not for side armor 11. The tri-las limits this by staying on the far side of the board.

Side armor mitigation is still relatively possible when you flank from the sides.

That and las cannons and bolts have different purposes.

Baals can't flank anymore.

Martel732 wrote:
Baals can't flank anymore.

They can't Outflank. That doesn't mean you can't position them on a flank and achieve similar effects.