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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/18 18:20:36
Subject: Adeptus Astartes Blood Angels 7E Tactics
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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It' uninspiring, I'll agree.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/18 19:07:15
Subject: Re:Adeptus Astartes Blood Angels 7E Tactics
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Infiltrating Broodlord
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archangles sanguine wing:
2 veteran vanguards[must have packs]
1 sternguard
1 storm raven
you roll once for the whole formation to come in. it can be rerolled either way.
the VV's get either a lightning claw or power weapon for free on every member!!!!
the stern guard get either a storm bolter or combi weapon free on every member
Storm Raven is basically mandatory for anti-air anyways, and 22 point per model power weapon vanguard are almost certainly better than DC. Sternguard with free combi-weapons is gravy.
860 points gets you 30 guys, 20 with power weapons and jump packs and 10 with combi-weapons, and a Storm Raven. Blood Angels codex formation (Strike force?) for Jump Sang priest and Dante, 2x5 scouts, toss in some grav bikers.....do we have a decent list?
Discussion; New mandatory competitive formation? Death Company obsolete? Pure power armor/flyer list.....interests me.
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Looking for Durham Region gamers in Ontario Canada, send me a PM!
See my gallery for Chapterhouse's Tervigon, fully painted.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/18 19:15:25
Subject: Re:Adeptus Astartes Blood Angels 7E Tactics
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Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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Carnage43 wrote:archangles sanguine wing:
2 veteran vanguards[must have packs]
1 sternguard
1 storm raven
you roll once for the whole formation to come in. it can be rerolled either way.
the VV's get either a lightning claw or power weapon for free on every member!!!!
the stern guard get either a storm bolter or combi weapon free on every member
Storm Raven is basically mandatory for anti-air anyways, and 22 point per model power weapon vanguard are almost certainly better than DC. Sternguard with free combi-weapons is gravy.
860 points gets you 30 guys, 20 with power weapons and jump packs and 10 with combi-weapons, and a Storm Raven. Blood Angels codex formation (Strike force?) for Jump Sang priest and Dante, 2x5 scouts, toss in some grav bikers.....do we have a decent list?
Discussion; New mandatory competitive formation? Death Company obsolete? Pure power armor/flyer list.....interests me.
You would need an Elites unit with the Baal Strike Force Detachment for it to be legal, but otherwise you are golden.
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5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/18 19:40:35
Subject: Adeptus Astartes Blood Angels 7E Tactics
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Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine
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My review of some of the codex has lead me to believe the days of the BA ASM w/ JP are numbered? Have BA tactical squads made a comeback? Or are they just there to secure and hold objectives?
Are BA back to focusing on the heavy elites?
I still have a major affinity for an all JP army, it is what comes to mind with BA. DC still seem like a point sink to me though.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/18 22:04:34
Subject: Adeptus Astartes Blood Angels 7E Tactics
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Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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MadMaverick76 wrote:My review of some of the codex has lead me to believe the days of the BA ASM w/ JP are numbered? Have BA tactical squads made a comeback? Or are they just there to secure and hold objectives?
Are BA back to focusing on the heavy elites?
I still have a major affinity for an all JP army, it is what comes to mind with BA. DC still seem like a point sink to me though.
There is a formation that is 1x VV, 2x ASM. All must have JP. ASM with JP are just fine.
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5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/18 22:26:00
Subject: Adeptus Astartes Blood Angels 7E Tactics
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Jealous that Horus is Warmaster
Tampa, Florida
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What do you guys think is the best place for Libbies? I changed my list to all DC in the elite slot, and I think Libbies would be better for my list than priests, since DC already has FNP.
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Rule #1 is Look Cool.
Rule #2 is Do Cool S*%* Even If It's Tactically Inadvisable
Winning is something like Rule #17.
-The Shrike
Overkill is officially defined by the Commissariat and the Munitorium as: "The minimum amount of force that is to be brought to bear against the enemies of the Emperor."
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/18 22:37:48
Subject: Re:Adeptus Astartes Blood Angels 7E Tactics
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Fresh-Faced New User
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I believe you guys should watch the review the Stomping Grounds guys did for the codex and the battle reports and maybe you will change your opinion on sang guard.
I did...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 00:01:03
Subject: Adeptus Astartes Blood Angels 7E Tactics
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Perfect Shot Dark Angels Predator Pilot
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Sanguinary guard + Dante + jump pack Librarian = uber unit of death.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 00:10:16
Subject: Adeptus Astartes Blood Angels 7E Tactics
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Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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Kavish wrote:Sanguinary guard + Dante + jump pack Librarian = uber unit of death.
Add in a Sanguinary Priest to make them harder to kill.
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5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 00:15:09
Subject: Adeptus Astartes Blood Angels 7E Tactics
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Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot
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655pts and sitting right in front of me.
Tooled up of course.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/19 00:19:10
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 00:18:14
Subject: Adeptus Astartes Blood Angels 7E Tactics
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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Demolisher and stuff says hi
Im glad i started taking those
also will get punked by grav cents pretty quickly.
well unless invisibility goes off. (they got telepathy right?)
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Unit1126PLL wrote: Scott-S6 wrote:And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.
Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 01:17:15
Subject: Adeptus Astartes Blood Angels 7E Tactics
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Battleship Captain
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On it's own? Yes.
With the new formations and detachments? It's a game changer.
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Man, I wish there was a real Black Library where I could get a Black Library Card and take out Black Library Books without having to buy them. Of course, late fees would be your soul. But it would be worth it. - InquisitorMack |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 01:26:57
Subject: Adeptus Astartes Blood Angels 7E Tactics
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Until GW decides to FAQ it
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/12/19 01:40:18
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 01:50:31
Subject: Adeptus Astartes Blood Angels 7E Tactics
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Jealous that Horus is Warmaster
Tampa, Florida
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Is a divination Libby with a sterguard squad a good idea? I'm looking at Meltas and combi-meltas in a drop pod.
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Rule #1 is Look Cool.
Rule #2 is Do Cool S*%* Even If It's Tactically Inadvisable
Winning is something like Rule #17.
-The Shrike
Overkill is officially defined by the Commissariat and the Munitorium as: "The minimum amount of force that is to be brought to bear against the enemies of the Emperor."
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 01:53:03
Subject: Adeptus Astartes Blood Angels 7E Tactics
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Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot
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exsanguis wrote:What does everyone think of this as a 1000 pt list for a game on Boxing Day? Keeping it semi-fluffy and using the BSF:
Captain - The Angels Wings, Valor's Edge, Meltabombs, Artificer Armour (160)
DC x10 - JP, 2x Power Fists (280)
Tac Squad x10 - Rhino, Plasma Gun, Multi-melta (210)
Tac Squad x10 - Rhino, Plasma Gun, Multi-melta (210)
Predator - TLLC, LC Sponsons (140)
Captain and DC will either start on the board in cover, or DS in and assault something meaty. I think they're a particularly hard hitting unit for this points level. The Tac's are using my preferred load out for mid-field objective sitting, and the Pred is there to hopefully neutralise any MC's or heavy armour.
Hey, just to get you an answer: it's not going to scare anyone, but it's a good balanced Adeptus Astartes list (except for the Death Company) that should allow you to deal with most issues at 1000 points. I might consider swapping the Captain out for a Librarian or even a jump-pack equipped Sanguinary Priest, though.
Half of your points (almost) are wrapped up in the full Tactical Squads too--if you ran a scout squad of 5, you might be able to put something else into the list.
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5000 pts High Elves 4000 pts, Warriors of Chaos 4000 pts, Dwarfs 3000 pts, Wood Elves and Greenskins too
Thought for the ages: What is the Riddle of Steel? |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 02:51:07
Subject: Adeptus Astartes Blood Angels 7E Tactics
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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Hey guys I just recently picked up half of Deathstorm, and I am really liking the idea of adding a BA ally detachment to my AM force. Thoughts?
Here is what I am thinking-
HQ- Tank Commander in an Exterminator with LC/MM
Exterminator buddy with same loadout-
This is basically a cheap way to get Lascannons and Multi-Meltas on an AV14 platform while still having a main gun that can hit light armor. Swiss army knife tanks.
Core of 3 Chimeras with Plasma veterans
Vendetta
Manticore (because I don't have wyverns and they are actually useful for AT)
For the BA ally detachment-
A Chaplain w/ Jump pack, 7 Death Company all with JP, 1 with a PF.
5 Tac Marines in a pod, melta/combimelta or Flamers loadout.
This comes out to roughly 1850, and can be expanded on for 2k.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 03:03:07
Subject: Adeptus Astartes Blood Angels 7E Tactics
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Been Around the Block
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pantheralegionnaire wrote:exsanguis wrote:What does everyone think of this as a 1000 pt list for a game on Boxing Day? Keeping it semi-fluffy and using the BSF:
Captain - The Angels Wings, Valor's Edge, Meltabombs, Artificer Armour (160)
DC x10 - JP, 2x Power Fists (280)
Tac Squad x10 - Rhino, Plasma Gun, Multi-melta (210)
Tac Squad x10 - Rhino, Plasma Gun, Multi-melta (210)
Predator - TLLC, LC Sponsons (140)
Captain and DC will either start on the board in cover, or DS in and assault something meaty. I think they're a particularly hard hitting unit for this points level. The Tac's are using my preferred load out for mid-field objective sitting, and the Pred is there to hopefully neutralise any MC's or heavy armour.
Hey, just to get you an answer: it's not going to scare anyone, but it's a good balanced Adeptus Astartes list (except for the Death Company) that should allow you to deal with most issues at 1000 points. I might consider swapping the Captain out for a Librarian or even a jump-pack equipped Sanguinary Priest, though.
Half of your points (almost) are wrapped up in the full Tactical Squads too--if you ran a scout squad of 5, you might be able to put something else into the list.
Changed it around a bit:
Chaplain - Angels Wings, Meltabombs
DC x10 - 2x Power Fists, JP
Tac Squad x10 - Rhino, PG, MM
Tac Squad x5 - LC
Predator - TLLC, LC Sponsons
Leaves me 160 points. I feel a bit light on bodies, but I did contemplate the idea of bring in a podding Fragioso.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 03:14:37
Subject: Re:Adeptus Astartes Blood Angels 7E Tactics
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Been Around the Block
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casvalremdeikun wrote: Carnage43 wrote:archangles sanguine wing:
2 veteran vanguards[must have packs]
1 sternguard
1 storm raven
you roll once for the whole formation to come in. it can be rerolled either way.
the VV's get either a lightning claw or power weapon for free on every member!!!!
the stern guard get either a storm bolter or combi weapon free on every member
Storm Raven is basically mandatory for anti-air anyways, and 22 point per model power weapon vanguard are almost certainly better than DC. Sternguard with free combi-weapons is gravy.
860 points gets you 30 guys, 20 with power weapons and jump packs and 10 with combi-weapons, and a Storm Raven. Blood Angels codex formation (Strike force?) for Jump Sang priest and Dante, 2x5 scouts, toss in some grav bikers.....do we have a decent list?
Discussion; New mandatory competitive formation? Death Company obsolete? Pure power armor/flyer list.....interests me.
You would need an Elites unit with the Baal Strike Force Detachment for it to be legal, but otherwise you are golden.
Easily the go to list. I am actually making my version of the archangel sanguinary wing right now.
I am thinking 7 Power Swords per unit, 2 Power Axes, and then 1 Power Fist. Each on the VV units.
For the Sternguard I am thinking, 7 Combi Plasma and 3 Combi Melta.
Thoughts?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 03:40:51
Subject: Adeptus Astartes Blood Angels 7E Tactics
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Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot
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@exsanguis, I have always found the Fragioso very useful. It depends on who you're playing but if you can get the Heavy Flamer upgrade (in terms of points cost) you have three templates. I have wrecked Eldar Walkers and hordes with this many times. At worst it's a shooting magnet, which might let you get your DC somewhere where they can do some damage.
Sanguinary Guard are looking very good these days, as discussed elsewhere on this thread, but not in a 1000 point game.
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5000 pts High Elves 4000 pts, Warriors of Chaos 4000 pts, Dwarfs 3000 pts, Wood Elves and Greenskins too
Thought for the ages: What is the Riddle of Steel? |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 04:03:44
Subject: Adeptus Astartes Blood Angels 7E Tactics
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Been Around the Block
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Question for the wise:
If I took the Archangel Sanguinary Wing Formation
-10VV
-10Vv
-10Sternguard
-1 Stormraven
Am I allowed to use all of these squads combat squad rule?
I would have 4 squads of 5 VV and 2 squads of 5 Sternguard embarked in the Stormraven?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 05:44:39
Subject: Adeptus Astartes Blood Angels 7E Tactics
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Infiltrating Broodlord
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HalfBlood wrote:Question for the wise:
If I took the Archangel Sanguinary Wing Formation
-10VV
-10Vv
-10Sternguard
-1 Stormraven
Am I allowed to use all of these squads combat squad rule?
I would have 4 squads of 5 VV and 2 squads of 5 Sternguard embarked in the Stormraven?
I don't see why not. It's my plan ATM.
I'm thinking;
archangles sanguine wing;
220 10 Vanguard, 4 Axes, 6 Swords. Combat squaded into 3/2 splits
220 10 Vanguard, 4 Axes, 6 Swords. Combat squaded into 3/2 splits
220 10 Sternguard, 5 combi-plasma, 5 combi melta? Not sure of my split yet
200 Storm Raven
220 Dante
152, 2 Sang priest, Jump pack, bolt pistol, hang with the vanguard ideally, might splurge on power weapons here, but I doubt it.
110 - 140 2x5 scouts or tacticals
474 3x3 man bike squad, 2 grav guns, 1 combi grav, MM attack bike. Might spend for a fourth bike to soak wounds...but meh.
That's pretty much right on 1850. If I go with scouts then I can spend a little more on the sang priests.
I've seen worse lists I suppose.
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Looking for Durham Region gamers in Ontario Canada, send me a PM!
See my gallery for Chapterhouse's Tervigon, fully painted.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 05:53:37
Subject: Adeptus Astartes Blood Angels 7E Tactics
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Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard
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Are you allowed to take a dedicated transport for the sternguard? Takes away the alpha strike potential of they have to ride the stormraven.
All these formations make it pretty pointless to run codex marines unless you are running a bike list or cent star. Free power weapons would make vvs worth their points in any codex, but at the moment only bas are getting it. Don't even get me started on the free combi weapons on sternguard, even if it's only in this formation.
Maybe when there's a C:SM vs CSM or something book. :p
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warboss wrote:Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 06:12:18
Subject: Adeptus Astartes Blood Angels 7E Tactics
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Crazyterran wrote:Are you allowed to take a dedicated transport for the sternguard? Takes away the alpha strike potential of they have to ride the stormraven.
All these formations make it pretty pointless to run codex marines unless you are running a bike list or cent star. Free power weapons would make vvs worth their points in any codex, but at the moment only bas are getting it. Don't even get me started on the free combi weapons on sternguard, even if it's only in this formation.
Maybe when there's a C: SM vs CSM or something book. :p
Unfortunately, the formation rules require the sternguard to deploy in the storm raven.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 06:44:29
Subject: Adeptus Astartes Blood Angels 7E Tactics
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Carnage43 wrote:HalfBlood wrote:Question for the wise:
If I took the Archangel Sanguinary Wing Formation
-10VV
-10Vv
-10Sternguard
-1 Stormraven
Am I allowed to use all of these squads combat squad rule?
I would have 4 squads of 5 VV and 2 squads of 5 Sternguard embarked in the Stormraven?
I don't see why not. It's my plan ATM.
I'm thinking;
archangles sanguine wing;
220 10 Vanguard, 4 Axes, 6 Swords. Combat squaded into 3/2 splits
220 10 Vanguard, 4 Axes, 6 Swords. Combat squaded into 3/2 splits
220 10 Sternguard, 5 combi-plasma, 5 combi melta? Not sure of my split yet
200 Storm Raven
220 Dante
152, 2 Sang priest, Jump pack, bolt pistol, hang with the vanguard ideally, might splurge on power weapons here, but I doubt it.
110 - 140 2x5 scouts or tacticals
474 3x3 man bike squad, 2 grav guns, 1 combi grav, MM attack bike. Might spend for a fourth bike to soak wounds...but meh.
That's pretty much right on 1850. If I go with scouts then I can spend a little more on the sang priests.
I've seen worse lists I suppose.
I like the Vanguard split, although I'm just wondering if lighting claws would be any good in certain situations over power weapons?
EDIT-
I just saw you get one lightning claw for free, not a pair so yeah I like what you've done with the VV
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/19 06:48:10
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 07:29:12
Subject: Adeptus Astartes Blood Angels 7E Tactics
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Been Around the Block
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Carnage43 wrote:HalfBlood wrote:Question for the wise:
If I took the Archangel Sanguinary Wing Formation
-10VV
-10Vv
-10Sternguard
-1 Stormraven
Am I allowed to use all of these squads combat squad rule?
I would have 4 squads of 5 VV and 2 squads of 5 Sternguard embarked in the Stormraven?
I don't see why not. It's my plan ATM.
I'm thinking;
archangles sanguine wing;
220 10 Vanguard, 4 Axes, 6 Swords. Combat squaded into 3/2 splits
220 10 Vanguard, 4 Axes, 6 Swords. Combat squaded into 3/2 splits
220 10 Sternguard, 5 combi-plasma, 5 combi melta? Not sure of my split yet
200 Storm Raven
220 Dante
152, 2 Sang priest, Jump pack, bolt pistol, hang with the vanguard ideally, might splurge on power weapons here, but I doubt it.
110 - 140 2x5 scouts or tacticals
474 3x3 man bike squad, 2 grav guns, 1 combi grav, MM attack bike. Might spend for a fourth bike to soak wounds...but meh.
That's pretty much right on 1850. If I go with scouts then I can spend a little more on the sang priests.
I've seen worse lists I suppose.
Well since we can split Vangaurd. I think your split is great. 3/2. You are looking at 12 Power Sword attacks on the charge. With 8 Power Axe attacks.
Here is another question. Since the Stormraven has a troop capacity of 12. Can we throw an HQ in with the sternguard. The reason I ask this is because the Stormraven / sternguard would be part of a formation, while the model would most likely be an HQ. Just a thought.
What's your thoughts on Corbulo in with the Stormraven. This would give a 6" I and WS bubble for your vanguard. Just a thought.
I definitely agree with running Dante. It always seems like he is a must nowadays because of his absurd cc potential.
My last question does the formation come on turn 1? Or is it reserves?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/19 07:30:18
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 07:36:54
Subject: Adeptus Astartes Blood Angels 7E Tactics
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Regular Dakkanaut
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would it ever be worth it to give the VV some storm shields now?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 07:49:51
Subject: Adeptus Astartes Blood Angels 7E Tactics
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Been Around the Block
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akwing00 wrote:would it ever be worth it to give the VV some storm shields now?
I was considering this. Definitely going to have to play test it.
I definitely like the idea of 2-3 grav bike squads though.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 12:19:14
Subject: Adeptus Astartes Blood Angels 7E Tactics
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Dakka Veteran
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Carnage43 wrote:HalfBlood wrote:Question for the wise:
If I took the Archangel Sanguinary Wing Formation
-10VV
-10Vv
-10Sternguard
-1 Stormraven
Am I allowed to use all of these squads combat squad rule?
I would have 4 squads of 5 VV and 2 squads of 5 Sternguard embarked in the Stormraven?
I don't see why not. It's my plan ATM.
I'm thinking;
archangles sanguine wing;
220 10 Vanguard, 4 Axes, 6 Swords. Combat squaded into 3/2 splits
220 10 Vanguard, 4 Axes, 6 Swords. Combat squaded into 3/2 splits
220 10 Sternguard, 5 combi-plasma, 5 combi melta? Not sure of my split yet
200 Storm Raven
220 Dante
152, 2 Sang priest, Jump pack, bolt pistol, hang with the vanguard ideally, might splurge on power weapons here, but I doubt it.
110 - 140 2x5 scouts or tacticals
474 3x3 man bike squad, 2 grav guns, 1 combi grav, MM attack bike. Might spend for a fourth bike to soak wounds...but meh.
That's pretty much right on 1850. If I go with scouts then I can spend a little more on the sang priests.
I've seen worse lists I suppose.
I'd still probably want the +1I from the Baal detachment over free power weapons. The key to any BA assault unit for me is "Can I punch out Thunderwolves with Storm Shields ?" DC at I5 can, VV with Power Weapons at I4 can't
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 13:13:16
Subject: Re:Adeptus Astartes Blood Angels 7E Tactics
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Annoyed Blood Angel Devastator
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some days ago i used this list
- 8x DC with JP (1x PF, 2x PW)
- 8x DC with JP (1x PF, 2x PW)
- 10x SG (1x PF, 1x Plasma Pistol)
- Sanguinary Priest with JP (on SG)
- 6x Bike (2x Grav-gun plus 1x Combi-grav) + MM Attack Bike
- 5x ASM w Melta on pod
- 5x ASM w Melta on pod
- Libby with Staff of Gallian (in pod with ASM)
- 10x Tac w Flamer/HF in pod
(technically, was squadded half in pod half holding ground on objective)
- 5x Sniper Scout
i faced a WS Eldar w/ Wraithknight; we played only for 1,5 turn 'cause was too late ;_;
however, it worked fine. Gravgun vs MC is a must. Melta was working fine but holo-field and night combat saved them from several shot. Scouts died 'cause of a tactical error (too close to wraithknight and they get smashed).
I felt like SG would need one more PF (and maybe one more high strenght ranged weapon)
how could i tune it?
i was thinking about removing pod and putting squads on rhino, to avoid deep strike while playing against interceptors (ie vs tau), and/or removing 1 DC from each squad to recover some points
also, Bike is good for marines, dunno how much is good for BA...
it's for 1750 game
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 14:14:10
Subject: Adeptus Astartes Blood Angels 7E Tactics
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Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller
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I think the BA Bikers can be pretty amazing, although I see exactly why our command squad doesn't get bikes, bikers with extra attack at WS5 I5 S5 would be amazing, I already think they are pretty damned good. I could see people teaming them up with White Scars characters for Hit and Run.
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Inquisitor Jex wrote:Yeah, telling people how this and that is 'garbage' and they should just throw their minis into the trash as they're not as efficient as XYZ.
Peregrine wrote:So the solution is to lie and pretend that certain options are effective so people will feel better? |
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