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I want to see Mindshackle Scarabs go away or get nerfed.

 Vash108 wrote:
I hope we just get some kits with upgrade options for Crypteks for one.

Yesssss
Crypteks and royal courts were probably (in my mind) the coolest and most powerful change when they released the new codex. The single mono-pose poor-quality resin model was just inexplicable.

I really hope a new Transcendent C'Tan model comes out. It's ridiculous that you have to buy a $160 model to get one. Just blister pack it for $30.

 undertow wrote:
I want to see Mindshackle Scarabs go away or get nerfed.

It wouldn't surprise me if they stick around, but are changed such that they can only be used in a challenge.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I really hope a new Transcendent C'Tan model comes out. It's ridiculous that you have to buy a $160 model to get one. Just blister pack it for $30.

Having to buy a $160 kit to get one is precisely why GW won't release a blister.

Well that and the fact that it's super easy to model one...plus it would be a box anyways.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I really hope a new Transcendent C'Tan model comes out. It's ridiculous that you have to buy a $160 model to get one. Just blister pack it for $30.

Or just use a C'Tan Shard, or better yet find an "off-brand" ghosty model of similar size.

That's why I just have a metal Nightbringer model if I ever want to field one. It looks scarier, anyway.

 undertow wrote:
I want to see Mindshackle Scarabs go away or get nerfed.

I want people to actually understand the game they pretend to play and realise that MSS, while funny, is actually a terrible piece of equipment and can be too easily countered if your opponent took the time to open his rulebook and read out of it.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

col_impact wrote:

MaxT wrote:
Well, apart from the completely broken Tesla/snapshot interaction.

What's broken about Tesla and snapshots?

Nothing? That it is only slightly better than some weapons when snap firing and yet at the same time people can't do basic Mathhammer 40k and realize they don't generate more shots than normal shooting?

It's broken because of the 7th Ed jink/snapshot interaction. Jinking is supposed to be a meaningful tradeoff, increased survival at a cost of decreased offensive output. Any Necron models armed with Tesla weaponry that Jink currently lose barely any offensive output, thus it's broken.

 undertow wrote:
I want to see Mindshackle Scarabs go away or get nerfed.

I LOVE MSS

MaxT wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

col_impact wrote:

MaxT wrote:
Well, apart from the completely broken Tesla/snapshot interaction.

What's broken about Tesla and snapshots?

Nothing? That it is only slightly better than some weapons when snap firing and yet at the same time people can't do basic Mathhammer 40k and realize they don't generate more shots than normal shooting?

It's broken because of the 7th Ed jink/snapshot interaction. Jinking is supposed to be a meaningful tradeoff, increased survival at a cost of decreased offensive output. Any Necron models armed with Tesla weaponry that Jink currently lose barely any offensive output, thus it's broken.

It's not broken is Matt Ward wanted it to be that way. Maybe Matt Ward wanted Necrons to not suffer as much while snap shooting as other armies. Maybe he wanted Necrons to have high damage output.

Warmonger2757 wrote:

MaxT wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

col_impact wrote:

MaxT wrote:
Well, apart from the completely broken Tesla/snapshot interaction.

What's broken about Tesla and snapshots?

Nothing? That it is only slightly better than some weapons when snap firing and yet at the same time people can't do basic Mathhammer 40k and realize they don't generate more shots than normal shooting?

It's broken because of the 7th Ed jink/snapshot interaction. Jinking is supposed to be a meaningful tradeoff, increased survival at a cost of decreased offensive output. Any Necron models armed with Tesla weaponry that Jink currently lose barely any offensive output, thus it's broken.

It's not broken is Matt Ward wanted it to be that way. Maybe Matt Ward wanted Necrons to not suffer as much while snap shooting as other armies. Maybe he wanted Necrons to have high damage output.

Ork shooting doesn't suffer much from snapshooting either. Low BS but tons of dakka. Orks don't aim so much as just shoot a lot, so snapshooting and shooting while jinking doesn't suffer much performance loss for Orks.

It is simply by design of the Tesla gun that it can arc and hit while not even being fully aimed at something (see Tesla arcs) and so superior for snapshooting and shooting while jinking.

Kangodo wrote:

 undertow wrote:
I want to see Mindshackle Scarabs go away or get nerfed.

I want people to actually understand the game they pretend to play and realise that MSS, while funny, is actually a terrible piece of equipment and can be too easily countered if your opponent took the time to open his rulebook and read out of it.

No it's a perfect piece of equipment and helps counter how terrible our characters are in CC. It's also not nearly as powerful in 7th edition now that challenges don't make you immune to damage from the rest of the unit. I've used it maybe once since 7th dropped as opposed to being auto included in 6th edition.

 NecronLord3 wrote:

Kangodo wrote:

 undertow wrote:
I want to see Mindshackle Scarabs go away or get nerfed.

I want people to actually understand the game they pretend to play and realise that MSS, while funny, is actually a terrible piece of equipment and can be too easily countered if your opponent took the time to open his rulebook and read out of it.

No it's a perfect piece of equipment and helps counter how terrible our characters are in CC. It's also not nearly as powerful in 7th edition now that challenges don't make you immune to damage from the rest of the unit. I've used it maybe once since 7th dropped as opposed to being auto included in 6th edition.

It's also nice in that it rewards opponents who are tactically smart and figure out how to defeat it's potency. By rewarding smart players, it helps to make 40k more of a thinking man's game.

col_impact wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:

Kangodo wrote:

 undertow wrote:
I want to see Mindshackle Scarabs go away or get nerfed.

I want people to actually understand the game they pretend to play and realise that MSS, while funny, is actually a terrible piece of equipment and can be too easily countered if your opponent took the time to open his rulebook and read out of it.

No it's a perfect piece of equipment and helps counter how terrible our characters are in CC. It's also not nearly as powerful in 7th edition now that challenges don't make you immune to damage from the rest of the unit. I've used it maybe once since 7th dropped as opposed to being auto included in 6th edition.

It's also nice in that it rewards opponents who are tactically smart and figure out how to defeat it's potency. By rewarding smart players, it helps to make 40k more of a thinking man's game.

Careful, your testing your opponents intelligence unfairly while leaning on an auto take piece of war-gear that literally requires zero thought

MSS is the necrosn answer to assault. However, I avoid the MSS but if I can not. I just throw a unit in with decent save with no AP vaule HtH. That way if they hit each other, I can still take a save. Plus most of the time, I win combat and sweep them. GK players hate MSS because they can kill themselves rather quite easily with all that power weapons they have. Seriously, there are ways to deal with MSS, just got to think about it.

 Red Corsair wrote:

col_impact wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:

Kangodo wrote:

 undertow wrote:
I want to see Mindshackle Scarabs go away or get nerfed.

I want people to actually understand the game they pretend to play and realise that MSS, while funny, is actually a terrible piece of equipment and can be too easily countered if your opponent took the time to open his rulebook and read out of it.

No it's a perfect piece of equipment and helps counter how terrible our characters are in CC. It's also not nearly as powerful in 7th edition now that challenges don't make you immune to damage from the rest of the unit. I've used it maybe once since 7th dropped as opposed to being auto included in 6th edition.

It's also nice in that it rewards opponents who are tactically smart and figure out how to defeat it's potency. By rewarding smart players, it helps to make 40k more of a thinking man's game.

Careful, your testing your opponents intelligence unfairly while leaning on an auto take piece of war-gear that literally requires zero thought

Why does it matter if its a one way test of smart play? I have to learn how to effectively fight my opponents various stratagems as well. For instance, the more I study Tau and how it relies on support systems, the better I am able to fight them.

Honestly, MSS is one of the "most likely to get nerfed" that bothers me the least. Maybe its because I've been playing Nemesor Zandrekh solo for so long, I wouldn't really notice a change.

However, whenever I've taken a DLord with MSS, and the MSS actually comes in to play, it makes me feel very, very rude, almost to a point of it sort of ruining the good will of the game.

"See this shiny-gold 350 point fancy HQ you brought?...He's about to kill himself with his own Power Fist because I paid 15 points for this cool rule. Sorry."

 jasper76 wrote:
Honestly, MSS is one of the "most likely to get nerfed" that bothers me the least. Maybe its because I've been playing Nemesor Zandrekh solo for so long, I wouldn't really notice a change.

However, whenever I've taken a DLord with MSS, and the MSS actually comes in to play, it makes me feel very, very rude, almost to a point of it sort of ruining the good will of the game.

"See this shiny-gold 350 point fancy HQ you brought?...He's about to kill himself with his own Power Fist because I paid 15 points for this cool rule. Sorry."

Next time the opponent won't underestimate the MSS and will make sure to tarpit the Overlord or meat wrap his HQ and then handily win. And he will feel better for having figured out how to defeat it.

col_impact wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
Honestly, MSS is one of the "most likely to get nerfed" that bothers me the least. Maybe its because I've been playing Nemesor Zandrekh solo for so long, I wouldn't really notice a change.

However, whenever I've taken a DLord with MSS, and the MSS actually comes in to play, it makes me feel very, very rude, almost to a point of it sort of ruining the good will of the game.

"See this shiny-gold 350 point fancy HQ you brought?...He's about to kill himself with his own Power Fist because I paid 15 points for this cool rule. Sorry."

Next time the opponent won't underestimate the MSS and will make sure to tarpit the Overlord or meat wrap his HQ and then handily win. And he will feel better for having figured out how to defeat it.

I'd just issue a Challenge

col_impact wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
Honestly, MSS is one of the "most likely to get nerfed" that bothers me the least. Maybe its because I've been playing Nemesor Zandrekh solo for so long, I wouldn't really notice a change.

However, whenever I've taken a DLord with MSS, and the MSS actually comes in to play, it makes me feel very, very rude, almost to a point of it sort of ruining the good will of the game.

"See this shiny-gold 350 point fancy HQ you brought?...He's about to kill himself with his own Power Fist because I paid 15 points for this cool rule. Sorry."

Next time the opponent won't underestimate the MSS and will make sure to tarpit the Overlord or meat wrap his HQ and then handily win. And he will feel better for having figured out how to defeat it.

Seriously, if that opponent underestimated the MSS, he get what he deserved. For a 350 pts HQ, they better come with an invul, because it too pricey to put an invul on an necron lord/overlord after the MSS, S weave, and warscythe. I faced the destroyer lord with MSS, and a wraithwing before. A 3++ stock save is just like a 3+ armour save for the wraiths. then my AP2 and AP1 shot when the wraiths got shot up. All weapons were pointed at him until he got into assault, which I counter assaulted with troops as a tarpit.

 jasper76 wrote:

col_impact wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
Honestly, MSS is one of the "most likely to get nerfed" that bothers me the least. Maybe its because I've been playing Nemesor Zandrekh solo for so long, I wouldn't really notice a change.

However, whenever I've taken a DLord with MSS, and the MSS actually comes in to play, it makes me feel very, very rude, almost to a point of it sort of ruining the good will of the game.

"See this shiny-gold 350 point fancy HQ you brought?...He's about to kill himself with his own Power Fist because I paid 15 points for this cool rule. Sorry."

Next time the opponent won't underestimate the MSS and will make sure to tarpit the Overlord or meat wrap his HQ and then handily win. And he will feel better for having figured out how to defeat it.

I'd just issue a Challenge

You do realize the challenge rules have changed, right? All you do is bring the models in the units attached to the HQ into base contact with the Overlord or the bargeLord and MSS is defeated by flooding it with targets.

Also, the smart opponent will assault you first and have MSS resolve first and then declare his challenge so that your initial MSS whiffs.

I haven't played MSS in 7th so was unaware of how rules changes effect MSS.

Also, not even too sure I remember how MSS works. If multiple enemies are in base contact, it randomizes, right?

Like I said, for the past umpteen games I have been running NZ as my only HQ, so I wouldn't miss MSS if it went away. However, whenever its actually worked for me in the past, it has worked at the cost of good will in the game...i.e. when it works well, its a very very rude thing to do (same category as Mind in the Machine taking over a LoW).

If they're gonna super-nerf something, it might as well be MSS says I, for selfish reasons because I never use it!

Book, clampack character possibly cards. Nothing else new. Mss needs nerf

 jasper76 wrote:
Honestly, MSS is one of the "most likely to get nerfed" that bothers me the least. Maybe its because I've been playing Nemesor Zandrekh solo for so long, I wouldn't really notice a change.

However, whenever I've taken a DLord with MSS, and the MSS actually comes in to play, it makes me feel very, very rude, almost to a point of it sort of ruining the good will of the game.
"See this shiny-gold 350 point fancy HQ you brought?...He's about to kill himself with his own Power Fist because I paid 15 points for this cool rule. Sorry."

I never feel rude, that's because most of the time we have the following situations:
1. My Necron Overlord and his unit charged into your assault unit or MC.
I charge, I challenge, I stay out of B2B with anything else => Your model hits himself and you feel bad.
But you should feel bad, because you allowed Necrons to charge your assault unit, you accepted a challenge which you shouldn't and you put your challenger in such a way that my MSS had only one target.

2. You take the charge, challenge me and then allow me to activate MSS while nothing else is in B2B-contact.
The model will hit itself and the opponent feels bad.
But, again, he should feel bad. He allowed me to activate MSS after the challenge and he didn't put anything else in B2B.
The opponent made two mistakes and he loses his challenging model because of it. So yeah, he should feel bad.

3. You take the charge, my Lord is in the front and you somehow manage to get your big model as the only one in B2B, so the order of Challenge and MSS doesn't matter.
Well, where to begin with the number of mistakes the opponent made?

The only time an opponent has the right to feel 'bad' about it is when my Destroyer Lord is hunting his lonely model and he has nothing to stop it.
But in these circumstances your model would die anyway since the D-Lord is accompanied by a full unit of Wraiths and you should have seen this coming.

In short:
-If you charge you always let them activate MSS before the Challenge; MSS is now nullified.
-Always make sure that multiple units are in basecontact (B2B) with the MSS-bearer, since MSS picks a random target; MSS is now nullified.

If they just changed it to "affected model does not attack this turn" instead of attacking itself/it's unit, that wouldn't be a horrible trade off.

If you have a hard time dealing with MSS, you really need to study up. Anytime a necron is assaulting you, you did somethign wrong. I have yet seen MSS break the game where it won all these tournaments.

legions_no_more wrote:
If you have a hard time dealing with MSS, you really need to study up. Anytime a necron is assaulting you, you did somethign wrong. I have yet seen MSS break the game where it won all these tournaments.

I don't think its broken per se, just kind of a crappy thing to do when it works as intended. I'd sort of rather beat someone with my own models, then dip into possessing my friends models to punch themselves in the face.

In any case, if MSS stays, it'll be nice to still have the option, and if it goes, I won't miss it horribly...not like if RP were to go from 5+ to 6+ or something like that.

 skoffs wrote:
If they just changed it to "affected model does not attack this turn" instead of attacking itself/it's unit, that wouldn't be a horrible trade off.

That wouldn't stop the complaining.
People don't like it when their model can't do stuff, even if it is entirely their own fault because they don't know how to easily stop it.

The online complaining usually makes no sense.
People focus on Tesla, RP and MSS while the reason Necrons are so strong are three undercosted units.
Did you hear anyone on Canoptek Wraiths? I didn't.