Necron release rumours (prices and pics in first post)

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**Eyjio**

Sigvatr wrote:
Eyjio wrote:

Skill and knowledge = lucky rolling so your guys aren't instagibbed now? Hmm.

You obviously don't know why MSS weren't as good as many thought. Thanks for proving my point. Google "counterplay MSS 40k".

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Chad Warden wrote:

Sigvatr wrote:

The opposite is the case. If you were not able to play around MSS in 5th, you are a bad player. Hands down.

I do not think the effort in countering MSS was in proportion considering the cost.

Oh, yes, they definitely were too cheap. 20-25 pts would have been ideal.

You either misunderstood my post or didn't even read it. Try being less hostile in the future, good grief.

**BlackArmour**

davethepak wrote:
MSS again? that horse is dead and in the past, can we let it rot please?

He was being sarcastic/trolling ("its 15 whole points, and then you have to write it down...").

Yes, MSS was a BAD DESIGN CHOICE, because it annoyed players (no one likes losing control of models), but Necron characters are just terrible in CC and needed a buff.
GW made a bad call on their implementation of it.

Hopefully in the new codex necron characters get some kind of buff in CC, and from the rumors we have it looks like they are going to get increased weapon skill, which will be a start.

It would be nice to have better init as well, but we will see.
If they do keep MSS, hopefully it will be a more common type debuff (reducing enemy WS, etc.).

Soooooo....... You wanna be space marines..... Only better? Better standard guns, better leadership, far more surviveable, and to finish it off... Better than or equal in CC now?

Love watching necrons players cry about CC .... All i hear is "i dont want a weakness"

**ImAGeek**

Well, equal in close combat with units that are meant to be combat units, yeah. No ones asking for every unit to be awesome in CC but when you're paying 40pts a model for a CC model with I2, something needs a buff. Or a character which is essentially a combat character with I2.

**BlackArmour**

ImAGeek wrote:
Well, equal in close combat with units that are meant to be combat units, yeah. No ones asking for every unit to be awesome in CC but when you're paying 40pts a model for a CC model with I2, something needs a buff. Or a character which is essentially a combat character with I2.

If we are talking special characters or a unit designed for CC, then sure im with you.

However to boost basic troops or everyone would literaly be space marines ... Only better. Now in fluff that may be true but for game purposes that wouldnt be good.

**Galorian**

Chad Warden wrote:
Strawman.

Necrons are not supposed to be able to reliably beat a Bloodthirster or Abaddon. MSS was anti-fluff.

Unfluffy?

lol, read 'em and weep (was already making this reply due to the whole initiative 2 thing)-

changemod wrote:
Used to be Pariahs were I3, Lords and Flayed Ones I4 and Wraiths I6.

Having basically every unit in the codex have the same stats in multiple areas probably wasn't a smart 5th edition move. Too restrictive.

Not to mention the fact it made zero sense given the fluff-

In their midst was a leaping, slashing monster of metal and stolen skin, who's every blow hurled an Assault Marine ten feet across the ice. Sicarious made a beeline for the creature, raising his Tempest Blade in the briefest of salutes before engaging it in a lightning-fast exchange of blows
-Apocalypse War Zone: Damnos

A leaping monster tossing assault marines around like so many toy soldiers and exchanging "lightning-fast" blows with one of the Space Marines' most renowned swordsmen. Yeah, sure, initiative 2, whatever you say...

Moloc merely raised his Black Spear and unleashed its las-blast at the sinister figure high on its throne-like dais. The golden-white bolt, strong enough to pierce the armor of a battle tank, struck the machine-creature's shoulder and rocked the figure back, but did no more than elicit an eerie hissing howl, not of pain but of insulted rage. From the cold air a great glittering cleaver like blade of pale obsidian materialised in the Necron Overlord's outstretched skeletal hand and he threw himself from the dais like a bolt of thunder, slicing open the first Terminator in his path with a savage backhand blow as if the warrior's vaunted armor were as nothing.

[...]

The dark Overlord fought and killed his way towards the Minotaurs Chapter Master, leaving a trail of rent and severed Terminators in his wake, until suddenly the tomb ship shook to a resounding blow and it began to tilt crazily, the artificial gravity field within it rippling and buckling. The Necron Overlord was thrown unceremoniously to his knees and looming there above him was Ancient Geryon, the Contemptor Dreadnaught's great fist raised to strike, the lethal energy field that enwrapped it churning soundlessly in the now airless vault. The hammer-blow fell but the reaper's blade was there to meet it and the Dreadnaught's forearm exploded in flame and spinning shrapnel. The tomb ship tilted further still and Geryon reeled and staggered, the Dreadnaught's huge armoured feet skidding and losing purchase. The Overlord sprang bonelessly from the ground and laid into Geryon with his great blade in a rapid series of two-handed slashes, sending splintered ceramite and showers of sparks fountaining from the wounded Dreadnaught.
Geryon fell, one knee actuator severed, brackish blood and silver amniotic fluid leaking from the rents in his armour. The Overlord rose up to deliver the final blow and the Black Spear found him. Moloc punched the ancient relic-weapon clean through the Overlord's back and it exploded from the ankh-glyph that was blazoned across the Necron's chest, wreathed in pale flames and amber lightning. Transfixed, the Overlord spasmed upon the spear, its death-mask thrown back as if in a silent scream.

Asterion Moloc smashed the Overlord off his spear-blade using his storm shield to deal the blow just as the tomb ship rocked again with fresh impacts, the white flame of plasma weapon fire licking around the aperture in the vault chamber from the void beyond. By a warrior's instinct earned on a thousand battlefields, Moloc reacted before his conscious mind detected the reaping blade falling from on high, raising his storm shield as the dark Overlord's blade came down, the ancient device blocking a blow that would have cleaved Moloc's head in two before it finally shorted and spat, quickly coming apart under the repeated wild blows of the Necron's glittering blade. The world tilted once more as they parted, Moloc feeling the burning cold hate of the deathless creature's baleful crimson eyes as the broken, skeletal figure retreated into the darkness. The master of the Minotaurs Chapter himself was swept out into the void, surrounded by the bodies of his dead warriors as if caught in a whirlpool.
-Imperial Armor 12: Fall of Orpheus

Leaping "like a bolt of thunder" and easily slashing his way through a Terminator honor guard and the chapter master only managed to wound him with a cheap shot to the back which earned the guy a reprisal blow so fast he had to block it via instinctual reflex before he even registered that it was coming.

Yah, sure, initiative 2, makes perfect sense...

The Undying One glided smoothly into the brutal melee, double-bladed staff spinning in its hands. With consummate ease, two of the Anointed were instantly cut down. Both of the warriors were sliced neatly in two with a contemptuous lack of effort. The spinning Nexus Arrangement embedded in the ancient being’s chest spilt its ethereal light before it, taunting Marduk. Another Anointed warrior was slain, the Undying One’s bladed staff slicing neatly from shoulder to hip, and the two parts of the warrior slid to the ground. The necron lord spun the staff around in a blinding arc, levelling one of its tips at another Chaos Terminator, and a searing blast of energy slammed into the unfortunate warrior. The Anointed warrior reeled backwards, a head-sized hole punched clear through his chest.
Marduk snarled and launched himself forward, coming at the Undying One from the side. He saw the hulking form of Kol Badar moving to attack the ancient being from its other flank, combi-bolter roaring in his hand, and he felt a surge of rage at the thought of his Coryphaus stealing his kill.
The Undying One’s head was turned away from him, focussed on Kol Badar. He stepped in close, lifting his crozius arcanum with all his might, aiming his strike at the fell being’s delicate- looking, slender skull. The blow never landed, for without so much as turning its head, the necron lord parried the blow with one of the energy-bladed tips of its staff, even as the other blade sliced across Kol Badar’s torso, almost eviscerating him. Turning with a deceptively languid, smooth movement, still hovering a metre above the ground, the Undying One fended off the attacks of both Marduk and Kol Badar with ease. A third warrior entered the fray, power maul striking out. The Anointed brother was instantly slain, an energy blade plunged through his head.
Blood welling from the deep wound slashed across his torso, Kol Badar lifted his combi-bolter, spraying bolts from its twin-barrels. The Undying One’s shroud billowed out around it as it turned, and a dense cloud of scarabs was unleashed upon the Coryphaus, biting and clawing at him. Though the miniscule, robotic insects could do little real damage to him, encased as he was within his Terminator armour, they soaked up the fury of his weapon fire, the bolts detonating well before striking their intended target.
Marduk aimed another strike at his enemy. But again the double-bladed staff came around in a blinding arc, turning his weapon aside. Marduk had prepared for this reaction, and swiftly altered his angle of attack, but this too was blocked, a deft circular parry disarming him neatly, sending his crozius arcanum spinning away, landing several metres away. Still turning, the Undying One cut another Anointed brother in two as he stepped forward to attack the ancient being, before neatly ramming one of the energy-blades straight through Kol Badar, impaling him on its length.
Marduk lifted his combi-bolter towards his enemy, squeezing the trigger. Before the first bolt was launched from the chamber, the Undying One slid its blade clear of Kol Badar and swung it around. Marduk was knocked back a step, and it was only when he saw blood spraying out in a geyser that he realised something was wrong. The pain kicked in a heartbeat later, and the Dark Apostle gazed down in disbelief at his severed arm lying on the ground. His combi-bolter was still clutched in his hand. On the other side of the Undying One, Kol Badar dropped to one knee, blood pumping from his chest wound. The ancient being twirled its staff around in a deft display of skill. A ring of bodies surrounded it.
Necrons closed in on all sides, gauss flayers spitting death, and Marduk, refusing to accept defeat, felt his anger build.
“Face me, betrayer!” came a booming cry and the immense figure of the Warmonger burst through a cluster of necrons, smashing them out of its path with a sweep of one massive, mechanised arm. Heavy bolters spewed a torrent of fire before it as it charged.
...
The Undying One turned smoothly to face the Dreadnought rampaging towards it, and with inhuman speed and suppleness, it contorted its body like a dancer’s. Bolts sprayed around it, tearing holes through its billowing shroud, but failing to strike its body. On the Warmonger came, roaring incoherently as it pounded forward, a ten-tonne behemoth of metal and brutality.
The Undying One ducked neatly beneath the Dreadnought’s swinging talons, its double-bladed staff slicing out, striking across the Warmonger’s armoured chassis amid an explosion of sparks and the agonising scream of rending metal.
The Warmonger struggled to arrest its forward momentum, which took it past the Undying One. The Dreadnought’s damaged chassis was rotating before it had yet ground to a halt, dragging its heavy bolters around. The heavy weapons roared, belching an impenetrable curtain of high-calibre shells around in a wide arc, chasing its elusive foe. The Undying One was too swift, always a fraction of a second in front of the devastating salvo. Hefting its double-bladed staff like a spear, the Undying One glided forward, heavy bolter rounds ripping at its shadow-cloak. With inhuman strength and speed, the Undying One rammed its weapon into the heart of the Dreadnought’s chassis. The glowing energy blade slid effortlessly through the Warmonger’s thick armour plates, impaling it. Marduk roared in outrage and denial but was helpless as the Undying One ripped the glowing energy blade free, tearing it out sideways in a disembowelling stroke that ripped open the Dreadnought’s sarcophagus. Stinking amniotic fluids gushed from this fatal wound, and Marduk caught a glimpse of the Warmonger’s corpse within, shrunken, pallid and foetal. It was hard to believe that once this had been one of the Legion’s proudest warriors, a Dark Apostle no less. It now looked like an exhumed cadaver, a half-rotten corpse cruelly kept lingering in some horrific unlife. Wires, cables and tubes connected this lifeless, drowned thing to the Dreadnought’s nervous system. It was only this spider web tangle that kept it from flopping out onto the ground. It was little more than a wasted torso, upon which a skeletal head hung loosely. Most of its skull was gone, either from the extent of the injuries that had seen it interred or surgically removed, and the exposed brain matter—a horrible colour, like rotten fruit—was pierced with dozens of needle-tipped wires. It was missing its lower jaw. Only its visible fused ribcage and the gigantism of its skeleton revealed that this had once been a proud Astartes warrior. The Warmonger’s mechanised Dreadnought body shuddered and twitched, sparks bursting from damaged wiring and cabling. Marduk hooked his sacred crozius at his waist and dropped to one knee, prying the archaic
combi-bolter from his own dead hand. He fired at the back of the Undying One’s head as he rose, snarling in hatred.
Displaying unnatural prescience, the Undying One swayed aside from the burst of bolter fire, twirling its energy scythe around its hands as it turned. It was unable to avoid the Warmonger, however. The Dreadnought was not yet finished and as the Undying One turned away, the Warmonger lashed out, clamping its immense power talons around the body of its adversary. The necron lord struggled, its double-bladed staff flailing, but it could not escape. It was completely enclosed within the Warmonger’s grasp.
“Death to the False Emperor!” the Dreadnought roared, clenching its fist. The Undying One’s humanoid form splintered, exploding into a million scarabs. In the centre of the buzzing cloud of metallic insects hovered the Nexus Arrangement. Sparks and sickly black smoke rose from the Warmonger as the Dreadnought twitched spasmodically. The Undying One’s bodyguard stepped forward, warscythes flashing as they tore into the Warmonger’s armoured flanks.
Marduk roared in anger, stamping forwards, combi-bolter roaring in his hand. Kol Badar smashed a pair of Immortals and stepped into the midst of the scarab swarm, swatting at the robotic insects. He only registered the Coryphaus when his power talons closed around the Nexus Arrangement, plucking it out of the air. As the hulking warlord’s bladed fingers closed around the spinning orb the device once more took on its prior form, that of an inert, solid sphere. Reality shuddered, and Marduk gasped as he felt the blessed touch of the aether crash in upon him once more. The Dark Apostle whispered a prayer of thanks to the gods that he sensed around him.
Kol Badar held the Nexus Arrangement within his power talons, gunning down a pair of necrons with his combi-bolter. The blood around the hole in his chest was already scabbed and dry, the Larraman cells in his bloodstream having sealed the wound. The angry buzzing of the scarab cloud became more insistent, and Marduk saw it begin to coalesce into a tight, dense swarm once more, forming the unmistakeable outline of the Undying One.
“We need to leave. Now,” said Marduk, firing his combi-bolter on full auto, blasting holes in the reforming necron lord. Even as he did so, he knew it was futile—the Undying One was reforming, and no matter what he did, nothing would halt its progress. “Ashkanez,” said Kol Badar. “Initiate teleport return. Now!”
...
Like droplets of molten metal coming together, a million tiny scarabs gave up their individual form as they combined, until once more the Undying One hovered in the air before Marduk, gleaming, untarnished, perfect. Pinpricks of light began to glow malevolently within darkened eye sockets.
The necron lord turned its head from side to side, as if stretching its neck, before its inscrutable gaze locked onto Marduk. The air shimmered as the immortal being spun its deadly, twin-bladed staff, and it began to glide towards the Dark Apostle. “Any time now, Ashkanez,” hissed Marduk, backing away, still firing with his archaic combi- bolter. His twin-sickle clip ran dry and he bolstered the revered old weapon, drawing his crozius once more.
Then there was a sudden feeling of vertigo, and a bright light obscured his vision. When it cleared, Marduk was standing upon a dimly lit sub deck of the Infidus Diabolus, staring down the barrel of a melta gun.
Pgs.532-535 Dark Creed

Initiative 2, eh?

Well, that's enough soapboxing out of me on the subject...

**SilverDevilfish**

Chad Warden wrote:

Yeah, I fully expect Overlords and Destroyer Lords to gain the same skill and knowledge of having superior CC upgrades and stats that Space Marine Chapter Masters enjoy.

I'm joking obviously, no one is allowed to have non-MC normal characters as good as a Chapter Master in CC

Strawman.

Necrons are not supposed to be able to reliably beat a Bloodthirster or Abaddon. MSS was anti-fluff.

Never mentioned them. Bloodthrister is an MC, Abaddon is a special character. I'm commenting on the fact that no one else is allowed to have a customizable character that is not an MC as good as a Chapter Master. Which is a universal thing, not just Necron related.

The first part was a joke. Thus the

and the spoiler saying "I'm joking obviously".

Please comprehend what I am writing before calling me out.

**BlackArmour**

Fluff doesnt equal game, the blood angels chapter master Dante cut one of the most well known blood thirsters in two in fluff. Now go look at a bloodthirsters stats and then dantes stats in game. Not exactly on point as fluff goes.

**Kangodo**

BlackArmour wrote:
Soooooo....... You wanna be space marines..... Only better? Better standard guns, better leadership, far more surviveable, and to finish it off... Better than or equal in CC now?
Love watching necrons players cry about CC .... All i hear is "i dont want a weakness"

That is quite ironic.
Seeing as it are the Space Marines that are complaining whenever other armies get something unique.
And seeing as Space Marines are one of the top armies in the game right now.
The only SM-weakness is that you have too many options to ignore all weaknesses :')

Better standard guns? Only if you ignore the fact that Tactical Marines can take Meltaguns and Heavy Flamers.
Better Ld hardly matters when you have rules like ATSKNF.
Far more survivable? With RP they have the same survivability as Space Marines (without all the cheesy rules that keep them alive)
And yes! If you pay a gigantic amount of points for a CC-character the least one would expect is that is actually decent in combat.

**Wilson**

why is the dude/ dudette with the book not sharing more... some of us nerdizzles don't want to spend our hard erned monies on the book / or wait a week to read it..

WHAT ELSE IS NEW?!

**Waaghboss Grobnub**

If we want fluffy they should make Ghazgkull a MC with Eternal warrior, it will not die, feel no pain 1+, rage, etc etc..

As much as id like to since i am a major fluff lover...

It just cannot be done gameplay wise. And to remain on topic or semi topic.

MSS werent that good imo... Sure IF it works, and IF it targeted the character in base combat it was good ofc. But the reliability is quite low.
And if your lord gets into combat it probs already to late,... unless it has Lychguard body guards... only acceptable reason to get him into CC.

And as some people already stated... If your hyve tyrant got killed by MSS,.. you should NEVER charge a lord with your big unz first. Always trash first and hit from the second row dummies.. Ok challenge could screww this up...

**BlackArmour**

Kangodo wrote:
BlackArmour wrote:
Soooooo....... You wanna be space marines..... Only better? Better standard guns, better leadership, far more surviveable, and to finish it off... Better than or equal in CC now?
Love watching necrons players cry about CC .... All i hear is "i dont want a weakness"

That is quite ironic.
Seeing as it are the Space Marines that are complaining whenever other armies get something unique.
And seeing as Space Marines are one of the top armies in the game right now.
The only SM-weakness is that you have too many options to ignore all weaknesses :')

Better standard guns? Only if you ignore the fact that Tactical Marines can take Meltaguns and Heavy Flamers.
Better Ld hardly matters when you have rules like ATSKNF.
Far more survivable? With RP they have the same survivability as Space Marines (without all the cheesy rules that keep them alive)
And yes! If you pay a gigantic amount of points for a CC-character the least one would expect is that is actually decent in combat.

I'm sorry are you some how implying that Necrons ARENT one of the top armies? I'm going to honestly hope you're not saying that.

Oh yeaaaa melta....... boy a gun designed to shoot one shot and penetrate armor.... except armor penetration killing off something in one shot is very unreliable in 7th. what is reliable in the game now though is stripping hull points, something all of your basic troops are capable of doing!

Flamers...designed for hordes...... except you have tesla! which can cause those mass amount of shots you want.

Also no, Immortals have the same stat line as Marines (except CC stats) and with RP they have a built in FNP that can be both buffed to a 4+ (re-rolling ones in the right case) and Ignores Instant death (something FNP doesnt do). That being said that's Necrons unique thing, along with bringing them back onto the field in various ways and I'm not complaining about that because you have a weakness in CC that can be used. close that loophole and yes you have marines , only better.

FWIW I did say up there that if its a character I'm in agreement with you, heck I'd much rather they do that then stick MSS out there and screw the whole thing up like they did.

also as for the weakness bit, I Play blood angels and Tyranids.... my weakness is I have to get real close and personal before you shoot everything dead and I accept that.

**SilverDevilfish**

BlackArmour wrote:
Tyranids....

You do know Tyranids have one of the best comp builds right?

**Gunther**

TL BS4 = 8/9 to hit =16/18
BS5 = 5/6 to hit = 15/18
It's a loss of 1/18th chance to hit, but now stacks with things which are already twin linked. Unless you're massively bummed that you can no longer twin link warrior/immortal fire, it's actually pretty much a buff. I mean, that was the issue it always had - there was already so much twin linking that 9 times out of 10 it was a dead ability. Not to mention that if heavy destroyers keep PE, going to BS5 makes them effectively twin liked on BS5 anyway, which will be hideously beautiful.

I will note that the rumor indicates that this is only for one unit within 12".
So, yes for one unit there is little detriment.
But a loss for the rest of the army if not already TL'd (most shooting non-vehicles).

Interesting, for a minute there I thought that this would boost BS to help out on snapshots but the snapshoot rule specifically prohibits that unless the overriding rule mentions snap shot specifically.

**Ffyllotek**

I am a necron player and my view is that MSS is high powered. I won't say overpowered because for the points, it's not particularly awesome.

Sure, IF you get your overlord, five lords, all tooled up with 2+/3++/MS/WS and a res orb, they are unstoppable. But that's set you back 850 points and the unit is usless except for vs over high powered CCs. They get tarpitted easily and have no shooting power. And they can move a whole six inches. Against unprepared they are deadly. But the trick is only effecive once. Anyone that's been MSS'd to death twice is stupid.

**Galorian**

SilverDevilfish wrote:
BlackArmour wrote:
Tyranids....

You do know Tyranids have one of the best comp builds right?

They're also specifically good against Necrons in general due to the Necrons' difficulty with MCs.

**BlackArmour**

Galorian wrote:
SilverDevilfish wrote:
BlackArmour wrote:
Tyranids....

You do know Tyranids have one of the best comp builds right?

They're also specifically good against Necrons in general due to the Necrons' difficulty with MCs.

To be fair I never said either of the armies I play are bad or are weak against Necrons. Simply that they do have a weakness.

My Brother plays Necrons and I've played far more games against them than any other army because of that.

It also means I know that army inside and out

**Hollismason**

I'm hoping for some new and better rules for the Crypteks, but also wary because I'm really worried we'll lose the Veilteks Deepstrike ability.

**Kangodo**

BlackArmour wrote:
I'm sorry are you some how implying that Necrons ARENT one of the top armies? I'm going to honestly hope you're not saying that.

Last numbers I saw they were behind 4 or 5 other armies, including Space Marines.
Not really sure about Blood Angels, but I would rate them higher than Necrons now.

Oh yeaaaa melta....... boy a gun designed to shoot one shot and penetrate armor.... except armor penetration killing off something in one shot is very unreliable in 7th. what is reliable in the game now though is stripping hull points, something all of your basic troops are capable of doing!

Are you acting as if Melta-podding isn't a thing?
From a gameplay-PoV I would gladly trade in glancing on a 6 for the ability to Drop in and utterly annihilate a vehicle of your choice.
A unit of BA-ASM with a Droppod and 2x Melta + Combi-melta is the same price as 9 Necron Warriors with only 24" range.

But that is not how Necrons work, they don't take such options in their squads and that is what I like about them.
I've often played games with both my Necrons and Blood Angels and I would rate the BA-anti tank capabilities a lot higher, mainly because they can actually get where I want them, when I want them.

Also no, Immortals have the same stat line as Marines (except CC stats) and with RP they have a built in FNP that can be both buffed to a 4+ (re-rolling ones in the right case) and Ignores Instant death (something FNP doesnt do). That being said that's Necrons unique thing, along with bringing them back onto the field in various ways and I'm not complaining about that because you have a weakness in CC that can be used. close that loophole and yes you have marines , only better.

Don't forget that Immortals are three points more expensive than Tactical Marines.
Also important to note is that Immortals aren't being used competitively.

I think you misunderstand the combat thing.
It's not about Immortals being as good in combat as Marines.
It's about the CC-dedicated units like Lords and Flayed Ones; or Lychguard and Praetorians.
An Overlord with CC-gear (Warscythe, 2+/3++, MSS) is 175 points; taking a ResOrb brings it to 205 points.
And he is still quite bad in CC because he runs around with I2.

Shooting units should be good in shooting and 'bad' in close combat, fully agree.
But when you build an entire list for close combat, they should be good in close combat.

**angelofvengeance**

So bickering about the 'Crons being nerfed aside, do we have any further info on the codex to look forward to?

**Hollismason**

The Cryptek abilities and actual point values , along with the new Relic over haul.

**Eyjio**

angelofvengeance wrote:
So bickering about the 'Crons being nerfed aside, do we have any further info on the codex to look forward to?

Points of everything.
Wargear/relics.
Cryptek stuff.
Gauss rules.
Entropic strike rules.
Quantum shielding rules.
Tesla destructor rules.
Profiles of most units.
Special character rules.
Ghost ark ability.
Monolith rules.

Basically what I'm saying is that at this juncture we know almost nothing about the book balance.

**changemod**

Kangodo wrote:
I think you misunderstand the combat thing.
It's not about Immortals being as good in combat as Marines.
It's about the CC-dedicated units like Lords and Flayed Ones; or Lychguard and Praetorians.
An Overlord with CC-gear (Warscythe, 2+/3++, MSS) is 175 points; taking a ResOrb brings it to 205 points.
And he is still quite bad in CC because he runs around with I2.

I've been working with swapping out MSS for the Solar Thermesite recently, and it's been going great so far. She's now durable enough to calmly wait for her opponent to stop flailing so she can shove a S8 AP 1 weapon through his face.

Particularly successful battle just last Thursday had her be turn one Veilteked into the back field with an entire Gauss Immortal squad and Phaeron, whilst an infiltrating allied Culexus spread chaos on the opposite side of the board. Even though she obviously attracted a lot of attention, the unit only lost three wounds total. Dunno what my opponent's game plan was, but clearly that didn't pan out.

If this 4++ Phase Shifter thing holds true, it'll make this not quite as good, but still nicely effective. Particularly with WS 5 upping damage potential/defence depending on target.

**Nilok**

Here is the image from the email. Sorry it's so small, but I doubt GW wanted to actually release any point values intentionally.

**Galorian**

Nilok wrote:
Here is the image from the email. Sorry it's so small, but I doubt GW wanted to actually release any point values intentionally.

codteasers...

**Hollismason**

Nilok wrote:
Here is the image from the email. Sorry it's so small, but I doubt GW wanted to actually release any point values intentionally.

That looks like to me Tomb Blades did in fact get a point reduction and that is 3 Tomb blades with a Weapon upgrade. So possible 1 in 3 weapon may be upgraded similar to other squads.

It'd make sense.

Also unless the Doomsday Ark got a significant upgrade 170 points is ridiculous.

Really hoping Tomb Blades are 3 - 9 now instead of the abysmally terrible 1-6.

**Sasori**

Hollismason wrote:
Nilok wrote:
Here is the image from the email. Sorry it's so small, but I doubt GW wanted to actually release any point values intentionally.

That looks like to me Tomb Blades did in fact get a point reduction and that is 3 Tomb blades with a Weapon upgrade. So possible 1 in 3 weapon may be upgraded similar to other squads.

It'd make sense.

Also unless the Doomsday Ark got a significant upgrade 170 points is ridiculous.

It's now Strength 10 on the large blast, and S8 on the regular blast.

**Jaq Draco lives**

s10 on a 72 inch range is insane especially if it is still AP1.

Goodnight mr Rhinos that I face so regularly!

**Hollismason**

For 170 points though, that's really really high cost.

Does anyone else see that as a 3 Tomb Blades with a upgrade or is it just me.

58 divided by 3 comes out to a fractional number. However 58 - 10 point upgrade comes out to 16 points per model. So maybe a 10 point upgrade on the unit. 16 points a model though for them is incredibly powerful though so that doesn't seem right.. at all.

**nflagey**

Could it be that the 3 tomb blades have different options?
Instead of getting all 3 the same?

**Jaq Draco lives**

Hollismason wrote:
For 170 points though, that's really really high cost.

Does anyone else see that as a 3 Tomb Blades with a upgrade or is it just me.

Not really it is comparable to the likes of the price of Leman Russes and other gun boats, it doesn't have AV14 but it does have jink.

For that 72 inch Vindicare assassin strength shot on a durable base its well worth it