Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Anyone know if you can take a CAD and then take a few of the small formations (e.g. destroyers) and still get the benefits for them?

 docdoom77 wrote:

 Henker-Kind wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Doesn't matter how many times a C'tan can shoot, it's still most likely dead on Turn 1.

4 wounds at 7 Toughness with only a 4++ save just means you get to roll a lot of dice against wounds that still kill you. Every army runs spam guns.

Hide him behind something.

With true line of sight and a 6" move, that is a tricky prospect.

true true, but there is target saturation, hide him behind a monolith, or as I said later use the monoportal to pull him out of reserves the turn it deepstrikes (works under current faq)

It kind of sucks though that Crypteks lost all of their fluff and flavor with the loss of Harbingers.

I wanna know the order of operations for Deathmarks. Shooting a Grav Star immediately is amazing. Shooting them after they get to shoot first is a distraction.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Doesn't matter how many times a C'tan can shoot, it's still most likely dead on Turn 1.

4 wounds at 7 Toughness with only a 4++ save just means you get to roll a lot of dice against wounds that still kill you. Every army runs spam guns.

Which is why the Conclave is even more appealing now. T8 makes it immune to Bolter equivalent fire, Crypteks are now 2W each to make it harder to get rid of that FNP, you can give them a Chronometron so they have their own Invuln Save, etc.

Conclave is a squad of T8, with 8 Wounds, 5+ FNP on the Shard/4+ Reanimation on the Crypteks, all with Invuln saves, with a possibly good shooting attack (and another really great shooting attack on the Nightbringer if you go with him). That's a scary-butt squad imo. What MC can rival that?

 Red Corsair wrote:
It's not open ground though, just treated as open ground. That was the issue before like he said.

So that means you're still trying to treat it as difficult terrain instead of open ground. Could it have been written better? Yes, like so many other rules GW writes but IMHO their intentions were clear.

Hollismason wrote:
It kind of sucks though that Crypteks lost all of their fluff and flavor with the loss of Harbingers.

I never liked the harbingers and their fluff - I am happy those are gone. The new crypteks give me a better feeling of evil architects of power and crafting artifacts don't know why? All this new stuff sounds so much darker...

Hollismason wrote:
Ugh can you guys just like wait until the Codex is actually out to have a pages long semantic debate.

I wanna talk about how awesome Deathmarks and Tomb Blades are now. Ignore Cover Gauss Weaponry, yessssssssssss. Deep STriking units that shoot other deep striking units, yesssssssss.

It's not like the Codex is going to clear it up, may as well get the semantics debate out the way.

Hollismason wrote:
It kind of sucks though that Crypteks lost all of their fluff and flavor with the loss of Harbingers.

They didn't sell Harbinger models.

Yep, that's right: We got stealth hit by the same thing that gave Dark Eldar only 3 models.

 Slayer le boucher wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:

Riiiiiight. But that's not what it says. It doesn't say they aren't slowed. It doesn't say they are or aren't affected. It says "when moving treat as open ground." If I'm treating it as open ground and open ground does not reduce initiative, then my iniitiative is not lowered.

Compare that with the beasts rules (who most definitely are reduced to I1 if they charge through difficult). It says ignore movement penalties or some such. This is very different wording to anything in the past.

Different wording, same thing.

plus they still assault a unit that is IN the Terrain, and not a single thing changes that fact.

is like the fething Gravtard argument all over again...

It explicitly states to treat it as open ground, what more do you want??

Would you have liked it better if it read "remove all difficult terrain from the board whenever a Wraith squads moves and return it into place afterwards"?

 Red Corsair wrote:
Its under cryptek data card options I'm pretty sure.... It's a stupid format the new books use.

You mean this one? http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-8gPDlWjka1g/VMey5_gsJFI/AAAAAAAAC8A/BVZWsXpc3gw/s1600/IMG_20150127_120652.jpg

thephaeron wrote:
Anyone know if you can take a CAD and then take a few of the small formations (e.g. destroyers) and still get the benefits for them?

Of course, that's how Formations work.

thephaeron wrote:
Anyone know if you can take a CAD and then take a few of the small formations (e.g. destroyers) and still get the benefits for them?

Yes, you can take a normal CAD and then the formations, or you can take the CAD for the Mephrit Dynasty and those formations, or you can use the Decurion set up.

Also, there's no real reason to not play Mephrit if you wanna use the 3 wargear items they have.

Do the Wraiths still have a 12" movement?

 Tyran wrote:
Do the Wraiths still have a 12" movement?

Yes, they are Beasts now.

changemod wrote:
I wanna know the order of operations for Deathmarks. Shooting a Grav Star immediately is amazing. Shooting them after they get to shoot first is a distraction.

They will be able to shoot it immediately.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/--rjyiLar7bA/VMfOQhElpzI/AAAAAAAADB4/gX_TAnAVmcw/s1600/IMG_20150127_120926.jpg

Don't know how effective it would be really, a full unit would put... what? About 2-3 unsaved wounds on them? That's certainly not bad, but not exactly a real solution.

Requizen wrote:

thephaeron wrote:
Anyone know if you can take a CAD and then take a few of the small formations (e.g. destroyers) and still get the benefits for them?

Of course, that's how Formations work.

Now that seems stupid: here it ays: may take a chronometron + it says can take items from the technoarcana - isn't the chronometron within the technoarcana??

Regarding Exterminatus Relics, I've looked a couple times and there is nothing stating that they replace the normal relic selection like most supplements do.

changemod wrote:
I wanna know the order of operations for Deathmarks. Shooting a Grav Star immediately is amazing. Shooting them after they get to shoot first is a distraction.

1. Enemy unit Deep Strikes.
2. You Deep Strike.
3. At the end of the Movement, you shoot at any enemy unit that arrived from Reserves.

It's basically Interceptor with a DS-clause.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Regarding Exterminatus Relics, I've looked a couple times and there is nothing stating that they replace the normal relic selection like most supplements do.

That is probably because it's the first Supplement to come out before the Codex.
Such a line will probably be in the new Codex.
But we can all hope

"...if at least one model of a assaulting unit goes through a difficult terrain during its charge, . . "

In the case of wraiths . . .

Does at least one model of a assaulting unit goes through a difficult terrain during its charge?

I can logically answer yes and no based on whether I put emphasis on codex or brb.

What does the rulebook say about contradictions between codex and BRB?

 Galorian wrote:

 Slayer le boucher wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:

Riiiiiight. But that's not what it says. It doesn't say they aren't slowed. It doesn't say they are or aren't affected. It says "when moving treat as open ground." If I'm treating it as open ground and open ground does not reduce initiative, then my iniitiative is not lowered.

Compare that with the beasts rules (who most definitely are reduced to I1 if they charge through difficult). It says ignore movement penalties or some such. This is very different wording to anything in the past.

Different wording, same thing.

plus they still assault a unit that is IN the Terrain, and not a single thing changes that fact.

is like the fething Gravtard argument all over again...

It explicitly states to treat it as open ground, what more do you want??

Would you have liked it better if it read "remove all difficult terrain from the board whenever a Wraith squads moves and return it into place afterwards"?

No simply do it like Flip belts for Arlys, where it explicitly says they are not penalised by the terrain for their init, even though they also ignores/trait difficult terrain as open.


So tell me, why with the Arlys it is explicatly said like this, when for the Wraith it isn't?...

Simple, because Wraiths can't do it.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Regarding Exterminatus Relics, I've looked a couple times and there is nothing stating that they replace the normal relic selection like most supplements do.

This is correct, it's just 3 extra items. 3 Really decent items.

Hollismason wrote:

thephaeron wrote:
Anyone know if you can take a CAD and then take a few of the small formations (e.g. destroyers) and still get the benefits for them?

Yes, you can take a normal CAD and then the formations, or you can take the CAD for the Mephrit Dynasty and those formations, or you can use the Decurion set up.

Also, there's no real reason to not play Mephrit if you wanna use the 3 wargear items they have.

Sounds pretty sweet. Especially as you'd get reroll 1s for RP throughout as well

Kind of sucks they made Warriors 10 man squads and then give the Immortals no option for transport other than the NightScythe.

 Slayer le boucher wrote:

 Galorian wrote:

 Slayer le boucher wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:

Riiiiiight. But that's not what it says. It doesn't say they aren't slowed. It doesn't say they are or aren't affected. It says "when moving treat as open ground." If I'm treating it as open ground and open ground does not reduce initiative, then my iniitiative is not lowered.

Compare that with the beasts rules (who most definitely are reduced to I1 if they charge through difficult). It says ignore movement penalties or some such. This is very different wording to anything in the past.

Different wording, same thing.

plus they still assault a unit that is IN the Terrain, and not a single thing changes that fact.

is like the fething Gravtard argument all over again...

It explicitly states to treat it as open ground, what more do you want??

Would you have liked it better if it read "remove all difficult terrain from the board whenever a Wraith squads moves and return it into place afterwards"?

No simply do it like Flip belts for Arlys, where it explicitly says they are not penalised by the terrain for their init, even though they also ignores/trait difficult terrain as open.


So tell me, why with the Arlys it is explicatly said like this, when for the Wraith it isn't?...

Simple, because Wraiths can't do it.

Cmon, it's GW. They're hardly consistent with their rules. It could be as you say, or they could have just missed it from the wraiths. Needs an FAQ (already...)

Kangodo wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Regarding Exterminatus Relics, I've looked a couple times and there is nothing stating that they replace the normal relic selection like most supplements do.

That is probably because it's the first Supplement to come out before the Codex.
Such a line will probably be in the new Codex.
But we can all hope

The book was probably written about the same time as the codex so that seems kind of like a silly thing to over look. But yes, it'll depend on how the codex is worded but at least that doesn't prevent them being used (as long as you're using the Exterminatus stuff to use them that is since you need to take those formations or that FOC to access them).

Aldaris wrote:

changemod wrote:
I wanna know the order of operations for Deathmarks. Shooting a Grav Star immediately is amazing. Shooting them after they get to shoot first is a distraction.

They will be able to shoot it immediately.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/--rjyiLar7bA/VMfOQhElpzI/AAAAAAAADB4/gX_TAnAVmcw/s1600/IMG_20150127_120926.jpg

Don't know how effective it would be really, a full unit would put... what? About 2-3 unsaved wounds on them? That's certainly not bad, but not exactly a real solution.

Where's that picture from?

And it depends what deep struck in, I guess.

 ImAGeek wrote:


Cmon, it's GW. They're hardly consistent with their rules. It could be as you say, or they could have just missed it from the wraiths. Needs an FAQ (already...)

LIke usually i would say.

Maybe in 5 months?

Tomb Blades are so insanely good.


As for Deathmarks their carrying sniper rifles that wound on a 2+, they are still sniper rifles, pretty sure they get the precision shots and the AP2 bonus. Who says you'd put shots on the Centurions? The nasty part is the Psyker not the Centurions. This also slaughters Mawlocs and Demons, it's a insanely good ability.

I summon a unit of Daemons, My deathmarks immediately arrive and shoot them.

Tomb Blades carry Gauss guns that ignore cover and are twin linked. A unit of 10 is going to run you like 220 for the bells and whistles to have a unit put out 20 Twinlinked ST5 Cover Ignoring weapons that auto glance on a 6.

You don't think that'll kill a few Wave Serpents? Their Twin Linked as well, start shooting Fliers as well or anyone that relies on a cover save.

Hey so can anyone sanity check this to see if this might work?

Take a squad of Deathmarks and put them in Deepstrike reserve. Put a Destroyer Lord with them (As Jetpack infantry have Deepstrike).
Would the Destroyer Lord be able to arrive with them via Ethereal Intervention? I guess so since the rule only seems to refer to "...the Deathmark unit" and an IC becomes that unit for all intents and purposes.
If so take the Destroyer Lord with the Gauntlet of Conflagration (The S7 AP2 Template one use weapon) or just his Staff of Light and give your Deathmarks Preferred Enemy.
So you have your template (which wouldn't benefit from Hunters from Hyperspace due to the new wording) but also your Deathmarks hit on 3's rerolling 1's and they then wound on 2+ rerollable.