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Requizen wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
The formations get heavily limited by points limits and in the Decurion, the mandatory models needed first.

You can still take the Formations by themselves. They won't get the Reroll around the Overlord nor the +1RP or improved Living Metal, but you can take the Relentless Canoptek formation with RP by itself alongside a regular Necron CAD.

And really, the Mandatories in the Reclamation Legion aren't bad and you can spam the better formations afterwards with no regards for the CAD restrictions.

It's all a little absurd for casual play. Actively hard to build what I'd call a fun list without hitting like a sledgehammer.

Requizen wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
The formations get heavily limited by points limits and in the Decurion, the mandatory models needed first.

You can still take the Formations by themselves. They won't get the Reroll around the Overlord nor the +1RP or improved Living Metal, but you can take the Relentless Canoptek formation with RP by itself alongside a regular Necron CAD.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 docdoom77 wrote:

Requizen wrote:

Hollismason wrote:The Decurion Formation adding +1 to RP for the whole detachment is pretty insane. Pretty much everything in the army has a 4++ FNP, and a 5++ against instant death. That's incredible. Your barge lords are even more durable now.

Can someone do the math on that?

A Bargelord from the Decurion Detachment, with the 4+ Invulnerable, 4+ RP, and It Will not die , give it Solar Thermasite and nightmare shroud.

2+, Reroll 1s, 4++ reroll 1s, 4++ RP reroll 1s, It Will not die 5+


I think he's pretty much indestructible. I mean I guess you can hit the Barge, that's it.

You can't take Solar Thermasite in the Decurion, that's only for the Mephrit Dynasty detachment (and Formations).

WrentheFaceless wrote:

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
Imperial Knights hit with S10 don't they? So insta gib.

STR D with Instant Death

So reanimation protocols wouldnt work against it, just their 3++ unless the Knight rolls a 6 on the D

Sure they do. Reanimation Protocols work against anything except "Removed From Play". We get -1 against Isntant Death, but we still make the roll against Strength D weapons.

Are you sure about that? I'm pretty sure it read: -1 from instant death, no RP against D weapons and emoved from play.

Ah, you are correct, I only read the second paragraph, missed the Destroyer Weapon stipulation. So yeah, Knights. We gotta figure out something about them.

You mean in the army that can mass spam 6s for glances?

 vipoid wrote:
What are people's thoughts on the Stormlord?

He seemed good when I first looked at him. But, as I look again, I'm not so sure. His Lord of the Storm is now only once per game, doesn't affect the whole table and only does S6 hits (which are markedly less useful). And, other than that, he doesn't really do anything beyond having a decent shooting attack.

Am I missing something?

He's probably your best bet for a Shooty lord, with a S6 AP2 longer ranged staff of light buff thing.

Plus flamer for overwatch and not too bad a price.

Bizzarely low durability and lacking in any combat ability whatsoever for a Lord of War character mind.

Hollismason wrote:
That's not like ever changed however a barge lord now will because of the increase in WS hit the Knight more.

A barge lord in combat with either a IK or WK is in big trouble. He strikes at I2, while the others strike at I4 and 5 respectively. They also get to target the vehicle profile, and the IK's Strength D will shatter it with ease, while the WK's Strength 10 should not have much trouble either.



If you remove the Decurion(sp) formation from the equation, Necrons are a really well balanced codex....unfortunately, that formation is game breaking.

changemod wrote:


It's all a little absurd for casual play. Actively hard to build what I'd call a fun list without hitting like a sledgehammer.

I think it's easy to build a fun list, as in: has a lot of different units, bit of shooting, bit of cc, and doesn't spam one particular choice over and over. It's still going to hit pretty hard though.

That's... actually kind of ideal, come to think of it.

 vipoid wrote:
What are people's thoughts on the Stormlord?

He seemed good when I first looked at him. But, as I look again, I'm not so sure. His Lord of the Storm is now only once per game, doesn't affect the whole table and only does S6 hits (which are markedly less useful). And, other than that, he doesn't really do anything beyond having a decent shooting attack.

Am I missing something?

He's very tough, brings a good guaranteed Warlord Trait, gives guaranteed Night Fight (can be good against some armies), has some good shooting attacks, boosts Flayed Ones, and doesn't take up an HQ slot.

So, he's alright. If you just want a tough Warlord that will stay alive and help shoot, you could do worse. If you're bringing Flayed Ones and are thinking of Deep Striking them, he helps them get in and then then be on point. But overall, he's less good than he could be. Depends on how much you want what he brings.

<double>

changemod wrote:

He's probably your best bet for a Shooty lord, with a S6 AP2 longer ranged staff of light buff thing.

Plus flamer for overwatch and not too bad a price.

Bizzarely low durability and lacking in any combat ability whatsoever for a Lord of War character mind.

Yeah, the combat thing was what made me raise my eyebrows. He was never great, but he at least had *something*.

Now he's been "upgraded" to a LoW and lost what little melee prowess he had in the process.

Why are people insisting Scarab Farm is dead?

Hollismason wrote:
Why are people insisting Scarab Farm is dead?

Well, because you could spend the points on many many better things?

One theme I'm also noticing: some of the more potent formations (like the canoptek one, or the judicator battalion) require one big mama model to be alive so they work. In case of the judicator one you could take a unit of stalkers, sure, but that gets really expensive... so mostly it'll be one I think. And the canoptek one straight up only has a single spyder as the focal point.

My point is: as good as those bonuses are, it's quite possible to shut them down. If you're worrying about how you'll ever kill Wraiths with a RP of 4+ in place - shoot the spyder, then get the wraiths. I actually like this as a balancing factor, and as a game mechanic.

Hollismason wrote:
Why are people insisting Scarab Farm is dead?

Because it relied on spamming the same stuff over and over

The new Codex, so far, seems to have the great Blood Angel thing:
A lot of strong and good units, but designed in such a way that you want variety instead of spamming.
Because so far I haven't seen a single unit I would like to spam, they are all better in combination with other stuff.

 Sasori wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Why are people insisting Scarab Farm is dead?

Well, because you could spend the points on many many better things?

eh the Canoptek Formation with a unit of Spyders, Scarabs, and Wraiths is actually really good because if you take it with the Decurion formation, then you get a 4+ RP on all that are with in 12 which the Canoptek Spyders can keep up with the other units until they decide to murderize something.

3++, 4++ on T5 wraiths is pretty much worth the cost.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Aldaris wrote:
One theme I'm also noticing: some of the more potent formations (like the canoptek one, or the judicator battalion) require one big mama model to be alive so they work. In case of the judicator one you could take a unit of stalkers, sure, but that gets really expensive... so mostly it'll be one I think. And the canoptek one straight up only has a single spyder as the focal point.

My point is: as good as those bonuses are, it's quite possible to shut them down. If you're worrying about how you'll ever kill Wraiths with a RP of 4+ in place - shoot the spyder, then get the wraiths. I actually like this as a balancing factor, and as a game mechanic.

The Canoptek formation is 1 Unit of Spyders I believe.

Hollismason wrote:Why are people insisting Scarab Farm is dead?

Scarabs are more expensive and don't strip AV anymore, just auto-glance. Which is decent too, but not the same as turning a Land Raider into AV5 vehicle.

Aldaris wrote:One theme I'm also noticing: some of the more potent formations (like the canoptek one, or the judicator battalion) require one big mama model to be alive so they work. In case of the judicator one you could take a unit of stalkers, sure, but that gets really expensive... so mostly it'll be one I think. And the canoptek one straight up only has a single spyder as the focal point.

My point is: as good as those bonuses are, it's quite possible to shut them down. If you're worrying about how you'll ever kill Wraiths with a RP of 4+ in place - shoot the spyder, then get the wraiths. I actually like this as a balancing factor, and as a game mechanic.

The Canoptek formation has one UNIT of Spyders, which is 1-3 Spyders.

Problem with that is that you need to be within a certain range of the Spyder.
But he is the only unit in the Formation that can only walk 6" per turn, so perhaps you want to be lucky with running?

In other news: His TL-Particle Beamer is a lot, lot, cheaper, just like his other Wargear.
So Gloom Prism is cheaper ánd buffed in range.

 Anpu-adom wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 Anpu-adom wrote:

 Redemption wrote:
Praetorians can take a Night Scythe as a dedicated transport, but the Night Scythe doesn't seem to state it can carry Jump Infantry, unless I'm overlooking the obvious.

Nightscythe can carry infantry. Jump infantry are just bulky, so will take up 2 slots. That means you have have a unit of 7 Praetorians in the NS, but not 8.

From 'Transports' in the main rulebook:

Only Infantry models can embark upon Transports (this does not include Jump or Jet Pack Infantry), unless specifically stated otherwise.

So as of right now, Praetorians have a Dedicated Transport that they can't use as it seems to have lost the exception from the previous codex that allowed it to carry Jump Infantry and Jetbikes.

Thanks for the correction. Seems like an oversight... hopefully it will be corrected with our obligatory faq that only fixes typos.

I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but the leaked image of the praetorians states that they "May select a Night Scythe as a Dedicated Transport". I'm think that's specific enough, don't you?

Hollismason wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Why are people insisting Scarab Farm is dead?

Well, because you could spend the points on many many better things?

eh the Canoptek Formation with a unit of Spyders, Scarabs, and Wraiths is actually really good because if you take it with the Decurion formation, then you get a 4+ RP on all that are with in 12 which the Canoptek Spyders can keep up with the other units until they decide to murderize something.

3++, 4++ on T5 wraiths is pretty much worth the cost.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Aldaris wrote:
One theme I'm also noticing: some of the more potent formations (like the canoptek one, or the judicator battalion) require one big mama model to be alive so they work. In case of the judicator one you could take a unit of stalkers, sure, but that gets really expensive... so mostly it'll be one I think. And the canoptek one straight up only has a single spyder as the focal point.

My point is: as good as those bonuses are, it's quite possible to shut them down. If you're worrying about how you'll ever kill Wraiths with a RP of 4+ in place - shoot the spyder, then get the wraiths. I actually like this as a balancing factor, and as a game mechanic.

The Canoptek formation is 1 Unit of Spyders I believe.

Preview pic in White Dwarf for the Decurion formation had a unit, not a solo Spyder.

Reanimating Scarabs are also more survivable as they advance through cover if you want to lag and farm a little.

Requizen wrote:

The Canoptek formation has one UNIT of Spyders, which is 1-3 Spyders.

The pic from that spanish blog says 1 canoptek spyder, at least in the overview. The actual formation rules aren't in there.

Kangodo wrote:
Problem with that is that you need to be within a certain range of the Spyder.
But he is the only unit in the Formation that can only walk 6" per turn, so perhaps you want to be lucky with running?

In other news: His TL-Particle Beamer is a lot, lot, cheaper, just like his other Wargear.
So Gloom Prism is cheaper ánd buffed in range.

I found people underestimated the twin linked particle Beamer before: Ideal for having something to do before you can close in and blowing the tar out of backfield terminators before the Spyders counter charged.

On the other hand, though they can have all three upgrades for it's old price now, there's more motive to just run than ever before with the buffing bubble in that formation.

changemod wrote:
I found people underestimated the twin linked particle Beamer before: Ideal for having something to do before you can close in and blowing the tar out of backfield terminators before the Spyders counter charged.

On the other hand, though they can have all three upgrades for it's old price now, there's more motive to just run than ever before with the buffing bubble in that formation.

Not really underestimated, it was just too expensive
Now that it is really cheap I am surely interested in taking it.

In other news: One of our Tactical Objectives requires us to issue a Challenge..
They are really pushing Challenges and melee-Crons, right?
With Obyron and Trazyn only working in challenges too.

Aldaris wrote:
One theme I'm also noticing: some of the more potent formations (like the canoptek one, or the judicator battalion) require one big mama model to be alive so they work. In case of the judicator one you could take a unit of stalkers, sure, but that gets really expensive... so mostly it'll be one I think. And the canoptek one straight up only has a single spyder as the focal point.

My point is: as good as those bonuses are, it's quite possible to shut them down. If you're worrying about how you'll ever kill Wraiths with a RP of 4+ in place - shoot the spyder, then get the wraiths. I actually like this as a balancing factor, and as a game mechanic.

Two flaws with this:

1) That spyder gets the RP as well, correct? A MC, even a derpy one like spyders, with 4+ RP is still going to be one tough nut to crack. Its getting a cover save because of the range on the formation, as they kind of have to stick together, and its likely going to be surrounded by Wraiths, so you can't assault it. How do you get rid of it before those Wraiths are in your battle line? About the only army that can shoot it dead quickly is Tau.
2) Even without RP, multiple squads of Wraiths are brutally tough now and deal loads of damage in assault. Wraiths are probably the only unit in the new codex that I consider to be broken. Had they left them with phase shifters and not included that derpy Wraithflight rule, I think they would have been a fair unit that was still very effective but not OP. Had they left them as is from the last book but only included a points increase, they would have been fine, but the big buff along with what equates to be a price decrease if whip coils are taken, its just stupid broken.

I still believe it is a rules misinterpretation that all of the decurion gets +1 to RP i think only the royal court is meant .... or do I hope so - I think the wording is dubious. Anyone got a leak on that? But even then if it is dubious. I will wait with judging till the FAQ - didn't it specifically say that not all vehicles get better living metal but only the fliers? At least the tyrant hive guy said so( I think) ....that would be an easy transition saying if this is so specific the other bonus might be as well only to the royal court, wich I heard in earlier rumors too!!!

so I will wait

So do we have the price of points upgrades for the wargear yet? Like the price of a Warsycthe for a Lord, that kind of stuff, along with out artifacts etc.

I have read the rules for the Canoptek formation. and I have a question. it say to pick one option. and if in 6in of the spider all get the ability.
But if the spider is dead wouldn't you still pick a option and only one unit would get it instead of all. The spider is only needed for all to get it. It doesn't say it has to be alive for the option to be picked for just one of the units.

Anyway, I guess quite a few of those formations will be very popular as allies... canoptek harvest in an Eldar or Tau force, anyone?

I can already imagine the scenario when a bored Autarch flips on his holovid after dinner and sees a commercial... "Wraithbone technology taking a toll on the immortal souls of your loved ones? Still need big stompy things to satisfy your facepunchy needs? Then buy Canoptek murderbots! Our new line of Canoptek murderbots is flexible, durable and affordable. No need to invite foreign dignitaries and their bodyguards along for the ride - our murderbots are able to operate independently, and come with a 60 million year warranty! What are you waiting for? Leave your deceased in the infinity circuit and buy a formation of murderbots NOW!"

Seen the wraith formation.
You must remember that a wraith simply have to be within 12" of the spyder, that's not really hard to. And as long the spyder maintains its buff for the first two turns, it has done its job.

It kinda forces you to shoot the Spyder instead of the Wraiths. Do remember the Spyder is 3W T6 3+ and have the 4+ RP (+1 from Decurion) as well, it's not gonna be an easy kill and if you, well it's just 50 points that drew your fire from the wraiths.

Spyders aren't big as well, they're pretty easy to get out of LoS too.

Requizen wrote:

 MasterOfGaunts wrote:
So, just to get it right... Wraith have their old basic 3 attacks with S6 rending, can get I5 are T5 with a3++ and 2W, move 12" ignoring difficult terain and cost 5 points less than a TH/SS Termie? I found them with T4 and 35 Points to be to good for their costs... now they are nearly broken. How should I beat a 3x6 Wraith (720 points) + Support (1130 points) Necron army with a nearly reasonable TAC list? It needs 27 bolter shots to kill 1 Wraith!!! And with 12"movement there is no chance to escape them. Even IK doesnt work anymore, cause of T8...

I really thought GW is on the right course with the last dexes but this is Eldar 2.0... maybe worse...

Tarpit them up with a cheap unit, or get inside buildings/vehicles. Even if they wreck the thing (I don't think they can explode non-open-top), then that's an extra turn where they can't assault you.

But yeah, Wraiths man. Pretty good unit.

changemod wrote:

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
Imperial Knights hit with S10 don't they? So insta gib.

And when I rolled a test combat against them earlier, the Wraiths won whilst only losing half their numbers.

That's not a mathhammered average mind, just one combat I sat and rolled out with a dice cube.

Aldaris wrote:Sternguard should do pretty well against them, as well as splinter weaponry. Stuff like Wyverns should have potential as well. Basically, anything that's able to just push out raw numbers of wounds. Big hitters with few attacks won't do much, unless they're S10/ID.

The thing is not, that there arent any possibilities. There are also some Units, that can wrack WS without problems. The thing is, that nearly no option is really effective.

Tarpitting: yes, I can takea Ironclad and hope that they fail to kill it... well 18 Rending attacks... that might be 2 turns of assault. But first I have to get them... Tarpitting just works if the unit i want to tarpit has a low amount of attacks or is to weak to do serious demage on my tarpit. With 3 S6 rending attacks tarpitting is no option.

Sternguard... should be the best solution but they still need 11 shots in average to kill 1 and they cost as much as 6 wraith who will kill them before they can do enough damage.

Wyverns: this unit itself is to cheap for what it does and i dont know how many wounds we get on average if the wraith spread out. What was the strength of the wyvern? 5 --> so 12 hits needed for 1 kill

The only reliable thing I can think of is a warhound titan with 2 of this D weapons and hope for the six.


No really, they should cost 50 at minimum, but compared to lictors or other 50 Point units they would still be to cheap.

if someone has a wraith fetish.

you can do reclamation legion core units + 3 wraith formations, for 18 wraiths with 3++/4RP and 2 Night Scythes.

Or if you just want Wraiths, Memphrit+1 Wraith formation for 24 T5 wraiths.

Let's say I have a "have friends who still want to play with me" fetish first and foremost and leave it at that.

The Decurion Detachment is legitimately a very strong Detachment. I kind of wonder if touraments will allow it.