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PIUS_2 wrote:
I'm pretty sure that Canoptek's don't have RP.

The Canoptek Formation gives them the option to have Reanimation Protocols as long as their within range 12" ( this may be 6 I cannot find the formation rules) of the Tomb Spyder.

I'll be playing it to make full use of my Scarab Farm too, so:

6 Wraiths: 258 (43ppm)
3 Spyders: 190: (3 Particle Beamers, 1 Gloom Prism)
9 Scarabs: 180

Total: 628.

It's 1 Canoptek Spyder per Canoptek Harvest Formation, if that's infact what you were shooting for.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

I got 362

6 Wraiths (252) Their 42 ppm with Whip Coils right
Tomb Spyder (50)
Scarabs (60)

Which previously for reference

6 Wraiths w/ 3 Whip Coils and a Destroyer Lord were 365 minimum

I think it's actually 3ppm for the whip coils instead of 2 but I can't find a picture with the points cost.

HeavyMetalMan wrote:

I'll be playing it to make full use of my Scarab Farm too, so:

6 Wraiths: 258 (43ppm)
3 Spyders: 190: (3 Particle Beamers, 1 Gloom Prism)
9 Scarabs: 180

Total: 628.

It's 1 Canoptek Spyder per Canoptek Harvest Formation, if that's infact what you were shooting for.

There has been zero evidence of that.

Other than the picture of the Decurion Detachment that says 1 Tomb Spyder

Hollismason wrote:
Other than the picture of the Decurion Detachment that says 1 Tomb Spyder

Which contradicts the multiple people who've seen the page claiming the oposite, and the White Dwarf picture showing two spyders in the formation.

HeavyMetalMan wrote:

I'll be playing it to make full use of my Scarab Farm too, so:

6 Wraiths: 258 (43ppm)
3 Spyders: 190: (3 Particle Beamers, 1 Gloom Prism)
9 Scarabs: 180

Total: 628.

Yeah its 1 spyder.

I got 362

6 Wraiths (252) Their 42 ppm with Whip Coils right
Tomb Spyder (50)
Scarabs (60)

Which previously for reference

6 Wraiths w/ 3 Whip Coils and a Destroyer Lord were 365 minimum

I think it's actually 3ppm for the whip coils instead of 2 but I can't find a picture with the points cost.

Not just that but I believe Scarabs are 20p per unit, not sure about unit size so give or take 40p on my estimate, I went for 5.

There has been zero evidence of that.

There ya go. From the codex.

HeavyMetalMan wrote:

There has been zero evidence of that.

There ya go. From the codex.

And? That's not the formation restrictions.

The White Dwarf Issue #52 shows a picture on pg 19 of the Canoptek Harvest and it shows two Spyders, three Wriaths and six Scarabs.

changemod wrote:

HeavyMetalMan wrote:

There has been zero evidence of that.

There ya go. From the codex.

And? That's not the formation restrictions.

Canoptek Harvest
- 1 Canoptek Spyder
- 1 unit of Canoptek Wraiths
- 1 unit of Scarabs

That's the formation. Key word missing for Canoptek Spyder is "unit". So you can only take one Spyder per Canoptek Harvest Formation.

HeavyMetalMan wrote:

changemod wrote:

HeavyMetalMan wrote:

There has been zero evidence of that.

There ya go. From the codex.

And? That's not the formation restrictions.

Canoptek Harvest
- 1 Canoptek Spyder
- 1 unit of Canoptek Wraiths
- 1 unit of Scarabs

That's the formation. Key word missing for Canoptek Spyder is "unit". So you can only take one Spyder per Canoptek Harvest Formation.

Why are you under the impression repeating the same information will get different results?

 Akumatsu wrote:
The White Dwarf Issue #52 shows a picture on pg 19 of the Canoptek Harvest and it shows two Spyders, three Wriaths and six Scarabs.

And the one in the codex, which is the official one, says 1 Canoptek Spyder, 1 unit of Wraiths and 1 unit of scarabs. When was the last time a white dwarf overrode a codex?

changemod wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Other than the picture of the Decurion Detachment that says 1 Tomb Spyder

Which contradicts the multiple people who've seen the page claiming the oposite, and the White Dwarf picture showing two spyders in the formation.

Well their wrong the picture I saw was of the book and it says 1 Tomb Spyder.

It says one because you only get one base before any upgrades. Wraiths and Scarabs come in multiples and so they are labeled as unit.

Hollismason wrote:

changemod wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Other than the picture of the Decurion Detachment that says 1 Tomb Spyder

Which contradicts the multiple people who've seen the page claiming the oposite, and the White Dwarf picture showing two spyders in the formation.

Well their wrong the picture I saw was of the book and it says 1 Tomb Spyder.

If you've seen the formation restrictions rather than a decurion flow chart, feel free to present actual evidence.

Otherwise I'll go with the more conservative option until I see it for myself.

 Akumatsu wrote:
It says one because you only get one base before any upgrades. Wraiths and Scarabs come in multiples and so they are labeled as unit.

With that logic the Judicator Battalion would say "One Triarch Stalker" not "One unit of Triarch Stalkers"

It looks like 1 Spyder is the maximum (which makes it a tiny bit more balanced... though still in the realms of OP)

What page is the Wraiths info on?

Good point.

Are Spyders still 1-3?

If you've seen the formation restrictions rather than a decurion flow chart, feel free to present actual evidence.

Otherwise I'll go with the more conservative option until I see it for myself.

That's fair I suppose. No I haven't seen anything about formation restrictions but if you notice under Judicator Battalion it says 1 unit of Triarch Stalkers which start as one model as well, just like spyders. With the stalkers it is allowing a unit, but with the spyders only mentions one. Of course this could just be another GW editing flub, so I'll concede. I would love to be able to take a full group of spyders in the formation though, if that is in fact allowed.

Edit: Seems matt got to that point before I did.

I don't really see them turning down the ability to sell multiple Spyders to Decurion players, and formation restrictions tend to be on the lax side in general.

If it wasn't for the picture of a Canoptek Harvest having two and people who seem to have seen more than me suggesting multiples, I'd err on the side of that odd wording. As is, it's 3 bits of circumstantial evidence to 1 as of now.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
It takes ~60 shots from a Dakka flyrant to wipe out a single unit of wraiths. That doesn't strike me as very efficient at all, especially considering that you can get 3 units of them for less than 800 points, or take a formation and grant them a 4+ RP on top of that for the first couple of turns.

If only nids had a way to field 5 of them....Oh wait

Thats no wraiths in 3 turns.

Lol, that's a bad tactical choice to spend 3 turns flying around the board only shooting at 1 unit of Wraiths, I'm kind of okay with that.

Double post

I think the odds favour the unit of Wraiths with the T5 2W and 3++ , 4++.

Have to see actual odds.

5 Flyrants so that's what 60 ST6 Twin Linked Shots.

I think it'd be better to shoot at the Tomb Spyder. It's T7 and got the 3+ , 4+ and 3 wounds.

changemod wrote:

Hollismason wrote:

changemod wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Other than the picture of the Decurion Detachment that says 1 Tomb Spyder

Which contradicts the multiple people who've seen the page claiming the oposite, and the White Dwarf picture showing two spyders in the formation.

Well their wrong the picture I saw was of the book and it says 1 Tomb Spyder.

If you've seen the formation restrictions rather than a decurion flow chart, feel free to present actual evidence.

Otherwise I'll go with the more conservative option until I see it for myself.

That's a fair point. I'll be going to my FLGS tomorrow (so roughly 20 hours from now for those interested) to get a sneak peak at the book so I will be able to confirm the details.

That being said, a quick google search seems to overwhelmingly favor just 1 Spyder. Like 10/10 on the first 10 results I found, all of which were working the last couple days. I'd say it's a pretty safe assumption at this point


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hollismason wrote:
I think the odds favour the unit of Wraiths with the T5 2W and 3++ , 4++.

Have to see actual odds.

5 Flyrants so that's what 60 ST6 Twin Linked Shots.

I think it'd be better to shoot at the Tomb Spyder. It's T7 and got the 3+ , 4+ and 3 wounds.

Totally is better to shoot at the Spyder. I think it's only T6 also. However, every shot you need to get past the 3+/4++ (so effectively a 2+ save, which means 24 wounds caused, or 48 hits, just to stop the wraiths from getting their RP. Not a bad first turn strategy, and it has a decent chance of getting first blood, which then allows you to average 2.2 wraith wounds/Flyrant, as opposed to the 1.1 you would be averaging with RP.

So on the forge world side of things...

Dark Harvest list itself just became confusing, having stats for outdated versions of units with minor upgrades but with references to new codex rules. Probably best to either ignore completely, or ally in the unchanged Warriors or Immortals just to get access to Kutlakh and Toholk, who remain pretty neat special characters.

Acanthrites got a mild buff: They can now glance high AV more easily in combat with their Voidblades. Also good is that they're deep striking Melta models.

Tomb Stalkers and Tomb Sentinels are largely the same. Tomb Sentinel is now the only "Test or be removed from play" model avaliable.

Tesseract Ark took a nerf from wording of Quantum Shielding, but is still very solid. AV 12 all round vehicle with 4HP and an invulnerable after all. Oh, and it's heavy so gets the mini IWND effect.

Sentry Pylons: Focussed Death Ray is more unique now. Heat Ray still fires Melta blasts. Gauss Exterminator questionably useful against flyer and skimmer heavy lists, I guess? Skyfire on a two shot Lascanon for that price is still awful.

Night Shroud: A bit on the pricey side to be sure, but it's an AV 12 all round night scythe with S10 large blast pinning and blinding bombs, so it kinda deserves to be. Our Storm Raven with transport swapped out for more death.

Dark Harvest will have the same issues that the DKoK Assault Brigade from the same book has, FW hasn't seemed particularly eager to update anything yet since the AM book came out for that or the other IG units/list in IA1. I'd expect they'll be in an awkward situation for some time.

changemod wrote:
So on the forge world side of things...

Dark Harvest list itself just became confusing, having stats for outdated versions of units with minor upgrades but with references to new codex rules. Probably best to either ignore completely, or ally in the unchanged Warriors or Immortals just to get access to Kutlakh and Toholk, who remain pretty neat special characters.

Acanthrites got a mild buff: They can now glance high AV more easily in combat with their Voidblades. Also good is that they're deep striking Melta models.

Tomb Stalkers and Tomb Sentinels are largely the same. Tomb Sentinel is now the only "Test or be removed from play" model avaliable.

Tesseract Ark took a nerf from wording of Quantum Shielding, but is still very solid. AV 12 all round vehicle with 4HP and an invulnerable after all. Oh, and it's heavy so gets the mini IWND effect.

Sentry Pylons: Focussed Death Ray is more unique now. Heat Ray still fires Melta blasts. Gauss Exterminator questionably useful against flyer and skimmer heavy lists, I guess? Skyfire on a two shot Lascanon for that price is still awful.

Night Shroud: A bit on the pricey side to be sure, but it's an AV 12 all round night scythe with S10 large blast pinning and blinding bombs, so it kinda deserves to be. Our Storm Raven with transport swapped out for more death.

In what way did Quantum Shielding change? As for the Tomb Sentinel, my friend and I discussed it and we're going to houserule it that the small blast it fires is S4 AP2 with the Exile Ray rule as per the beamer. That house rule is the only way it's worth taking.

 MoonlightSonata wrote:
In what way did Quantum Shielding change?

Set to 13 instead of +2.

Looking over Kutlakh, he's actually pretty massively buffed. Phaeron is explained in his profile, so he's still relentless. He has a 2+ in his profile, and he has a Phase Shifter and Phylactery.