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 Torga_DW wrote:
True, I'd forgotten that. But i'd still argue that doesn't give them any semblance of divinity.

Very true. But If I'm reading Manchu's critique of the portrayal of religion correctly then this supports his position. The Reapers are not only used as a convenient plot device (explaining the defection of Sarin, the schism of the Geth "heretics", the actions of the Illusive Man), but the Reapers also show religion in it's worst light. As gods the Reapers are unthinkingly worshiped by the Geth because of the effects of indoctrination. They are brain washed and stripped of their own free will, and in the case of the Husks have their original forms perverted. They sweep across the galaxy on their 'crusade' killing or forcibly converting (in mind and body) those that they come across.
Religion, and the worship of supreme beings, is shown as a mindless activity, causing a complete loss of personal will and identity, and inspiring fanaticism and galaxy wide strife that is repeated every cycle.

I think these quotes sum up some of the "religious" portrayal in games:

"I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world." - Richard Dawkins
I think there is a certain fear of being an unquestioning slave/servant to a belief system rather than one that allows questing for truths in the world that could be accepted as still part of god's good work to be discovered.
These tend to be portrayed in games as systems opposing the player when trying to prevent some event.

"Bad religion is arrogant, self-righteous, dogmatic and intolerant. And so is bad science. But unlike religious fundamentalists, scientific fundamentalists do not realize that their opinions are based on faith. They think they know the truth." - Rupert Sheldrake
This has always been an interesting view in the more science fiction games: where does science blind itself like a religion?
Rather than be willing to re-examine theories when new facts are found, do we still cling to those errors.
Most efforts in MassEffect was to convince of the "reaping" was to occur that godlike beings will reset the known universe.

I think there is a fear of losing a piece of yourself if you take-in or have to remove a "truth" you hold dear: it is like a piece of the old you has died to be replaced by something else.

The "terror" is to realize what gave you comfort is a lie.

 Talizvar wrote:


The "terror" is to realize what gave you comfort is a lie.

Someone's been talking to the Vorlons

 LordofHats wrote:

 Talizvar wrote:
The "terror" is to realize what gave you comfort is a lie.

Someone's been talking to the Vorlons

And me thinking I was getting rather deep... glad to know a TV show may be responsible. (A cool one nonetheless).

 LordofHats wrote:
Welcome to the realm of philosophy. Where the real can be unreal and the unreal real by the very virtue of thought

As long as the Unreal can be Tournament, I am okay with this

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 Torga_DW wrote:
True, I'd forgotten that. But i'd still argue that doesn't give them any semblance of divinity.

Very true. But If I'm reading Manchu's critique of the portrayal of religion correctly then this supports his position. The Reapers are not only used as a convenient plot device (explaining the defection of Sarin, the schism of the Geth "heretics", the actions of the Illusive Man), but the Reapers also show religion in it's worst light. As gods the Reapers are unthinkingly worshiped by the Geth because of the effects of indoctrination. They are brain washed and stripped of their own free will, and in the case of the Husks have their original forms perverted. They sweep across the galaxy on their 'crusade' killing or forcibly converting (in mind and body) those that they come across.
Religion, and the worship of supreme beings, is shown as a mindless activity, causing a complete loss of personal will and identity, and inspiring fanaticism and galaxy wide strife that is repeated every cycle.

Maybe. I'd just finishing replaying me1 about a month ago, and am near the end of me2. I still managed to forget the geth worshipped the reapers because it wasn't really a big deal as far as the game went. Maybe it was expanded more in the codex entries, i didn't read them. Saren and his generic npc robot army were trying to take over the galaxy, then near the end (of 1) you find out saren is just a puppet and the spaceship is in control. Aside from a small chat with sovereign (where it says the sort of thing that most alien npcs say to their enemies), my impression on the religious side of things was that it was pretty minimal to non-existant.

What i do remember is busting up a geth outpost where they were listening to intercepted music put out by a quarian artist. That was one of the bigger insights into geth minds, and it had nothing to do with the reapers. I haven't recruited legion yet in 2 (or done his mission) but from memory thats where most of the geth religion stuff springs from, which is pretty near the end of the game. Personal opinion and all, but there was no real substantive religious element in the me series. Dragon age had more in the way of representation (in that, there's a religion and you'll talk to people about it from time to time) but it wasn't what i'd call deep.

 Manchu wrote:

This is exactly why I say the Maker is just an off-screen NPC (a D&D-style "god") rather than a serious metaphor for anything about religion.

I never really saw Dragon Age's religious themes as commentary on God, so much as commentary on....well, religions. It's often cast into doubt if the Chantry's view of the Maker is accurate, and it's possible to have a reasonable and justifiable stance of "Maybe he doesn't exist at all, or is so far removed from this world that he may as well not.", as expressed by Aveline in DA2. It's noteworthy that the most overtly religious character in the games (Lelliana) removes herself from the hierarchy of the church before the story starts, because she feels a personal relationship with the Maker which is incompatible with the dogma.

The Chantry is a fairly nuanced religion, and like many RL religions, it's easy to look at its history and conclude it's doing a poor job overall representing its god. It has schismatics, which might be oddball fringe cults (the dragon worshippers) or full-on splits along national lines, notably the Tevinter Imperium and their "magic is awesome and slavery is fine" Chantry. It's a church that has been heavily political in the past, possibly compromising its own principles to do so, and has been involved in some very nasty incidents in the past. Did the Maker want the elves converted at swordpoint? Did he even notice what his worshippers were doing? We simply don't know--there isn't a Word of God on this, at least not in the first two games. Instead, we see it through the characters, and their opinions and beliefs.

Yeah dragon age never makes clear (unless that changes at the end of DA:I if the maker exists or not. It casts doubt on the official chantry version of events while backing up some other aspects of the tale. Some people believe strongly, some weakly and some not at all. You have religious fantastic a who persecute people, religious people who's faith compels them to do good and others who's faith allows them to justify terrible acts. You have non religious people on both ends of the good evil spectrum as well.

That's without going into the religion/philosophy of the quanri called the qun. All in all I think religion in dragon age is handled well.