Is MechVet the only answer?

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**Auroch**

Are Mechanised Melta Veteran lists the only answer in small point games like 500-1000? I really want to do a gunline or some other sort of foot list, but finding it hard to figure it out.

**Furyou Miko**

No, not even slightly. I played a 1k game against a Guard foot list with my Necrons and got slaughtered... admittedly under the old codex. Still, there were an insane number of guys on the other side of the field. Two maxed out platoons I think, with a Primaris HQ.

**SYKOJAK**

At a 1000 points you can get a full squadron of 3 Leman Russ varients. Which they can ruin anyone's day no matter what your opponent chooses to field.

**Ailaros**

Yeah, foot guard does better the lower points you play. Where you can actually bring your superior numbers to bear, as well as the fact that you can take a monstrous pile of mid-range weapons, and small arms tend to matter a lot more (which you're bringing an insane pile of).

If anything I'd say foot guard are stronger than mech guard at low points.

**AegisGrimm**

Yeah, at smaller games everyone counts- and even at such low point value games, Imperial Guard can field a lot of everyones.

**Auroch**

So whats the core of a standard foot list at lower points?

**Ailaros**

CCS, two infantry platoons, as many gun upgrades as you can cram in, and whatever points you have left over spent on some support units like priests or psykers.

Rather vanilla, but undoubtedly effective.

**ansacs**

I usually start with 2 Minimum Infantry Platoons. Then it depends on what big ticket item(s) you want.

A tank commander unit will fit in a 1000 pts list and you already have some decent bubble wrap in the infantry. Leman Russ tanks are also extremely tough for people to deal with at the less than 1000 pts level if you can also bubble wrap them a bit. Try something like this;

Spoiler:

Using orders the PCS and Infantry squads can actually move reasonably fast (move move move) and do some reasonable damage (FRFSRF). At 1000 pts 21 man units that are fearless are not that easy to shift off objectives.

Alternatively Yarrick is an excellent value as he is punchy, tough, and gives you all the benefits of both a lord commissar and a CCS, plus some other stuff. If you are thinking of upgrading a blobb squad then Yarrick is an excellent value (he can join the unit and give them Ld10 to pass the orders he gives).

At less than ~1250 pts I will try to avoid ugrades as much as possible and focus on bodies and efficient hard hitting units. This is because once you get above 1250 pts or so you will flood the board and can no longer space your troops out if you keep getting more bodies. Thus you need to start upgrading those bodies.

**Mavnas**

I think if you wanted to get ridiculous, you could field 220+ bodies at 1000 points. Some of your opponents wouldn't fire enough shots over 7 turns to kill them all.

**vipoid**

ansacs wrote:
I usually start with 2 Minimum Infantry Platoons. Then it depends on what big ticket item(s) you want.

A tank commander unit will fit in a 1000 pts list and you already have some decent bubble wrap in the infantry. Leman Russ tanks are also extremely tough for people to deal with at the less than 1000 pts level if you can also bubble wrap them a bit. Try something like this;

Spoiler:

1000 pts
HQ
Tank Commander (388pts) Pask Punisher w/ Dozer Blade, Lascannon, Relic Plating and Executioner w/ Dozer Blade, Heavy Bolter
Ministorum Priest (25pts)
Ministorum Priest (25pts)
Troops
Infantry Platoon (130pts) PCS and 2 IS
Infantry Platoon (130pts) PCS and 2 IS
Heavy Support
Manticore (170pts)
Wyvern (65pts)
Wyvern (65pts)

Using orders the PCS and Infantry squads can actually move reasonably fast (move move move) and do some reasonable damage (FRFSRF). At 1000 pts 21 man units that are fearless are not that easy to shift off objectives.

Alternatively Yarrick is an excellent value as he is punchy, tough, and gives you all the benefits of both a lord commissar and a CCS, plus some other stuff. If you are thinking of upgrading a blobb squad then Yarrick is an excellent value (he can join the unit and give them Ld10 to pass the orders he gives).

At less than ~1250 pts I will try to avoid ugrades as much as possible and focus on bodies and efficient hard hitting units. This is because once you get above 1250 pts or so you will flood the board and can no longer space your troops out if you keep getting more bodies. Thus you need to start upgrading those bodies.

What if you were taking Yarrick and just infantry. What would you suggest then?

**koooaei**

You can even run mellee guyz with power axes, krar nades, melta bombs and some allies. Guyz like Azrael or xeno inquisitors make simple guardsmen really frightening.

**ansacs**

By just infantry do you also mean no artillery, thudd guns, etc?

**vipoid**

ansacs wrote:
By just infantry do you also mean no artillery, thudd guns, etc?

Are those forgeworld things?

**ansacs**

Artillery is just any artillery (whether wyverns or heavy artillery carriages).

Thudd guns are forgeworld. They are a type of artillery unit which is a gun manned by 3 ground pounder crew.

**vipoid**

In that case, I would indeed discount both for an all-infantry army.

**Auroch**

I've always thought that a gunline army works best with artillery. Infantry line shreds at 24" while artillery fires from behind the meatshield.

**vipoid**

Auroch wrote:
I've always thought that a gunline army works best with artillery. Infantry line shreds at 24" while artillery fires from behind the meatshield.

I'm not disagreeing - I'm just curious as to how you'd go about building an all-infantry army at 1000pts.

**Cothonian**

If I had to or wanted to make an all infantry force (for 1000 points) I'd probably take 2 platoons, each maxed out with Guardsmen, Conscripts for each platoon, and lots of Heavy Weapons Squads. (I'll admit that I can't bring up exact point values at the moment as I don't have my codex with me.)

Conscripts act as a meat shield and prevent the enemy from flanking (as I would have the conscripts bringing up the sides), Guardsmen would push up the middle, Heavy Weapons teams would do the dirty work when it comes to taking down high value targets. Meanwhile the Platoon Command Squad and Company Command Squad would shout whatever orders are appropriate for the developing situation.

Of course this is coming from the new guy, so take my words with a grain of salt.

**generalchaos34**

Interestingly enough we did an all infantry game this weekend with AM vs Orks, no AV allowed on the table with 1750 points. I took about 200 models with a mix of 2 x 40 man conscripts, about 6 10 man IS with flamers, 3 PCS with grenade launchers and flamers, 4 man blob with 4 lascannons (for killing artillery and meganobs), 3 mortars, 3 HB, and, Creed, MoO, 2 primaris.

It was a blast.

However, it was a close game then i got steamrolled. I let them get too much steam and they came in strong and at the same time. I should have played less aggressive and let them run into my shooting but i wanted my flamers to taste ork flesh and get some forward objectives. That green tide formation with the Hammer of Wraths is nasty. I did learn a lot though. Mortars are not half bad, but still not as good as wyverns for -5 points. No matter what army i play my pskers WILL DIE from perils and I will always roll 1s on the chart (4 perils in a row!). Also as much as i want to love creed, he just isnt as good as he used to be, even with infiltrating warlord trait and 2 conscripts infiltrating.

**koooaei**

generalchaos34 wrote:
I will always roll 1s on the chart

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/That%27s_How_I_Roll_-_A_Scientific_Analysis_of_Dice

**ansacs**

To be entirely honest I would never take an all infantry list without any artillery units using the AM codex. I do take such a list using the forgeworld Elysian Drop Troops list and the death korps of krieg assault brigade. I also do take an all infantry list with thudd guns, rapier batteries, and heavy artillery carriages. The problem with taking such a list without such units is it is slow and lacks the ability to kill units in hiding. This means 3 eldar jetibike units can and will win a game against your entire 1000 pts army.

If I were to take such a list though I would take;

Spoiler:

I usually would use something like below for an all infantry list.

Spoiler:

Death Korps of Krieg Assault brigade can make a really incredible infantry list at 1500+ pts. Also Renegades and Heretics is probably the single best infantry list at 1000 pts and below.