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So I've seen suggestions putting full units of lootaz in Battlewagons, but no thoughts as to why.... open topped for mobile snapfire dakka? Advancing with trukks and other wagons as a super gunboat? Slight protection till an inevitable explosion? Does this unit need a big mek forcefield to work?

I'd like to know how people are using Lootaz, (and I have a spare BW...) Has anyone tried Lootaz in Fast attack trukks as heavy drive by boyz?

I'm also tempted to put the Lootaz with a KFF mega - mek for an invul, and Slow and Purposeful but then aren't we just investing points into a unit that should stay cheap and disposable as possible.

That used to be an option in the previous dex with lootasbeing elite and basically the only more or less reliable source of nice str long-ranged fire.

i do believe if you put them in a squad with a warboss in mega armor it will transfer slow and purposeful to the lootaz and you could run the battlewagon around and fire.

Johnnytorrance wrote:
i do believe if you put them in a squad with a warboss in mega armor it will transfer slow and purposeful to the lootaz and you could run the battlewagon around and fire.

They don't need it if they are firing from a vehicle anyway.

I would advise against lootas in a wagon. It's a waste of a heavy support slot, and the lootas have good enough range to set up on foot in backfield cover. If you really want a mobile heavy dakkawagon, take flash gitz with a DT wagon.

 Krusha wrote:
They don't need it if they are firing from a vehicle anyway..

They do, if the Vehicle moves, they count as moving. So Snap Shots.

Even with Mega Armour they Snap Shot a cruising speed anway (SaP doesn't help after 6").

 grendel083 wrote:

 Krusha wrote:
They don't need it if they are firing from a vehicle anyway..

They do, if the Vehicle moves, they count as moving. So Snap Shots.

Even with Mega Armour they Snap Shot a cruising speed anway (SaP doesn't help after 6").

This. If you want a shooty threat in a Wagon, you likely want Tankbustas/Rokkit Boyz, as their weapons are plain-old, Assault 1.

EDIT: checked the BRB, I stand corrected.

 Krusha wrote:
Vehicle passengers get the "relentless" rule, do they not?

They do not.

Yeah, after Lootas got the Heavy Support slot change, I barely field them anymore. You'd have to sacrifice 2 HS slots now just to field this combo when the BW could be used for something else.

Lootas tend to be able to reach out and touch just about anything without the need of a Wagon. Yes, they are more vulnerable, but they are pretty cheap models. Also, any shot hitting them is distracting from other things. (Which tends to be our motif, you need to bait and switch what your actual threats are, or bring so many threats that there is no real correct answer).

I've decided I'll be replacing Lootas with Kustom Mega Kannons soon. While I won't get as many shots, they are more survivable, have better chance of actually hitting despite the fewer shots (And more potential hits to begin with due to being a blast) and it gets T7 and T7 crew. Just better points value in my opinion.

(Plus, KMK despite getting hot from time to time, pop MEQ and Termies, and can esplode vehicles as well, something we don't get access to very often)

Most things that want Battlewagons can take them as Dedicated Transports.... so I don't see why taking Lootas is as much of a waste of a heavy slot as you think.

Lootas can be solid anti-air in a unit that can still do awesome work if the opponent doesn't bring flyers. My wife always brings them, and always brings five Lobbas, and both never fail to be valuable, despite only one having a reputation for being virtually auto-include.

Edit: Sorry... I didn't realize you meant taking a Wagon FOR them was the waste... which if that is what you're saying, absolutely yes. Its totally unneeded. Plunk them in ruins somewhere and they'll either be a target, or do work, all game long.

Boyz want battlewagonz. A lot. Don't rob a mob of boyz on their battlewagon

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Most things that want Battlewagons can take them as Dedicated Transports.... so I don't see why taking Lootas is as much of a waste of a heavy slot as you think.

Lootas can be solid anti-air in a unit that can still do awesome work if the opponent doesn't bring flyers. My wife always brings them, and always brings five Lobbas, and both never fail to be valuable, despite only one having a reputation for being virtually auto-include.

Edit: Sorry... I didn't realize you meant taking a Wagon FOR them was the waste... which if that is what you're saying, absolutely yes. Its totally unneeded. Plunk them in ruins somewhere and they'll either be a target, or do work, all game long.

There are a couple things you need to know [MOD EDIT - RULE #1 - Alpharius] First, Lootas can't take a BW as a DT so you are using two slots in one CAD to cover a one squad of shooting.. Unless you actually want the Lootas to disembark somewhere.. Why?

Lastly.. Any squad of 15 Lootas is made better by immediatly making them 3x5 lootas ... the Battlewagon offers no function for them at all. The wagon has no gunz it can also fire at 48"..

 Rismonite wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Most things that want Battlewagons can take them as Dedicated Transports.... so I don't see why taking Lootas is as much of a waste of a heavy slot as you think.

Lootas can be solid anti-air in a unit that can still do awesome work if the opponent doesn't bring flyers. My wife always brings them, and always brings five Lobbas, and both never fail to be valuable, despite only one having a reputation for being virtually auto-include.

Edit: Sorry... I didn't realize you meant taking a Wagon FOR them was the waste... which if that is what you're saying, absolutely yes. Its totally unneeded. Plunk them in ruins somewhere and they'll either be a target, or do work, all game long.

There are a couple things you need to know [MOD EDIT - RULE #1 - Alpharius] First, Lootas can't take a BW as a DT so you are using two slots in one CAD to cover a one squad of shooting.. Unless you actually want the Lootas to disembark somewhere.. Why?

Lastly.. Any squad of 15 Lootas is made better by immediatly making them 3x5 lootas ... the Battlewagon offers no function for them at all. The wagon has no gunz it can also fire at 48"..

a rather deflamentary and outrageous post Ris.

3x5 isn't nessecarily better than 15.... well we will start with the same questions you posed I suppose...... why are you using 3 heavy slots instead of 1? or did you not want to field ANY wagons whatsoever?... hmm?
3x5 actually is pretty poor, your much better off making it 2x9 and paying for the three extra lootas, that makes it so you need 3 caualties from each before your taking checks. otherwise.. yeh your splitting your targets... but you have 3 HS slots that with a little peppering are gona be leaving the board pretty soon or taking extra mob rule hits thats likely gona cause another check....

Reasons why you'd put them in a BW.
Maybe you have the blitz brigade - aka, 5 battlewagons that aren't using a HS slot. Maybe your other wagons are full. Maybe a wagon with a killkannon (which no longer requires 'ard case as far as I can see) and a MA mek are what you have - I think a 10 man loota squad with a MA mek in a wagon with KillKannon that is scouting with 4 other wagons is actually pretty nasty. Move for a flank and watch as you tear through armour. Bw gets popped? no worries MA mek. I think a large squad of shooting lootas with a MA mek sat up on the side is pretty deadly, even if you charge them there on average putting out 10-30 snapshots in overwatch could be brutal...

No overwatch if S&P.

ninjaska wrote:
No overwatch if S&P.

Ah yes indeed. hmm, then I'd run them without the MA mek if you wanted to BW them. Putting them down a flank and rotating to give you front arc should provide a rather powerful firebase. It is a little costly and i'd probably only consider it when running blitz brigade, as that way your providing enough AV saturation along with scouting wagons to put them under immense pressure. with 4 other wagons loadsed with boys and what not, a wagon on the flank is probably the least of his worries

Other than that, i'd probably only put them in a battlewagon if I was playing something quite casual/experimenting In the backfield will normally give them good enough sight and range to have a target every turn.

If there's a Blitz Wagon going spare I'd put Flash Gitz in it over Lootas.

 grendel083 wrote:
If there's a Blitz Wagon going spare I'd put Flash Gitz in it over Lootas.

mmm i have thought about that. but I think they both have pros and cons. I think if you put flash gitz in a wagon then you need an IC in there with them who either has a good save or is a painboss to give them FNP. The flash gitz are actually pretty good upclose, they are nob stats, so still WS, T and S4, with 3 attacks each. So I personally wouldn't be afraid to get them into combat if they have a nice killy IC with them. But without an IC and a Tshirt save you'll take casualties pretty quick. For 22pt models that 6+ really hurts.

Some flash gitz with a MA mek could work, its only another 75 pts min onto a squad that at 5 is 110 pts. Although again, SnP is great for the git finda, but poor in that it removes overwatch. So im not sure, as there overwatch would be very useful as assault 3. Maybe kaptain badarukk? As hes got the invun too. His weapon is better suited for other targets but will still add some punch to the flash gitz.

Not sold, flash gitz need a transport at 24" range weapons, but pretty easily removed once exposed. Although in the blitz brigade its likely they will have some cover and other threats to help keep them on the board a few more turns

What about burna boyz? I always thought they would be great in a Battle wagon.

I still use lootas though they have there perks.

 Rismonite wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Most things that want Battlewagons can take them as Dedicated Transports.... so I don't see why taking Lootas is as much of a waste of a heavy slot as you think.

Lootas can be solid anti-air in a unit that can still do awesome work if the opponent doesn't bring flyers. My wife always brings them, and always brings five Lobbas, and both never fail to be valuable, despite only one having a reputation for being virtually auto-include.

Edit: Sorry... I didn't realize you meant taking a Wagon FOR them was the waste... which if that is what you're saying, absolutely yes. Its totally unneeded. Plunk them in ruins somewhere and they'll either be a target, or do work, all game long.

There are a couple things you need to know [MOD EDIT - RULE #1 - Alpharius] First, Lootas can't take a BW as a DT so you are using two slots in one CAD to cover a one squad of shooting.. Unless you actually want the Lootas to disembark somewhere.. Why?

Lastly.. Any squad of 15 Lootas is made better by immediatly making them 3x5 lootas ... the Battlewagon offers no function for them at all. The wagon has no gunz it can also fire at 48"..

How is he mathematically inept?
battle wagons with 5 or 15 lootas in a ruin offer more protection than lootas in a ruin alone. Plus if the wagon only moves 6" they still shoot at full BS.
There's only one "inept jxxxxxx" on this thread. Learn some manners. Reported.

 zombiekila707 wrote:
What about burna boyz? I always thought they would be great in a Battle wagon.

I still use lootas though they have there perks.

Burnas lost a bit of their steam in this edition. Burna Wagon Stars are not all they used to be. Especially since they are now vulnerable to template weapons in kind. I might run a Burna Wagon when I get my last few Wagons in the mail since I plan on trying to Blitz Brigade. A surprise, outflanking Burna Wagon could be vastly useful. But as for a Burna Wagon that needs to run up field first? I doubt it will make it D:

One could argue that protecting the lootas in a BW is safer than just putting them in ruins.
Until the truck is blown up you're getting 4 HP's of protection until that occurs. Kinda like giving your lootas a void shield.

Put them in a truck then ride the BW onto the base of a ruins, capable of still allowing them to fire and you now have lootas with 4 HPs, and possibly 4+ cover save.

It's not for every situation but not something to laugh at

Johnnytorrance wrote:
One could argue that protecting the lootas in a BW is safer than just putting them in ruins.
Until the truck is blown up you're getting 4 HP's of protection until that occurs. Kinda like giving your lootas a void shield.

Put them in a truck then ride the BW onto the base of a ruins, capable of still allowing them to fire and you now have lootas with 4 HPs, and possibly 4+ cover save.

It's not for every situation but not something to laugh at

I wont argue the value of protection, it's just...you need to give up 2 heavy support slots to make it work. And you need to spend over 100 points just for the extra protection, and the Lootas may never gain that much back during the game. You can pop some rhinos, maybe a razorback. Meanwhile, the Loota Star is super vulnerable to deep strike due to terrible rear armor and average side armor (Side armor that is notoriously easy to get into line of fire, due to the wagon's shape)

While they might draw a lot of fire from the rest of your army, so they can put a stop to the massed S7 coming their way, it's still a lot of points for a mere distraction unit. :( My wagons are better served going to my Boyz to be honest. Then again, I almost never have space for Lootas on any of my lists (excluding small point games) because I'd rather use Mek Gunz these days, or get extra BWs for my Boyz

 Rismonite wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Most things that want Battlewagons can take them as Dedicated Transports.... so I don't see why taking Lootas is as much of a waste of a heavy slot as you think.

Lootas can be solid anti-air in a unit that can still do awesome work if the opponent doesn't bring flyers. My wife always brings them, and always brings five Lobbas, and both never fail to be valuable, despite only one having a reputation for being virtually auto-include.

Edit: Sorry... I didn't realize you meant taking a Wagon FOR them was the waste... which if that is what you're saying, absolutely yes. Its totally unneeded. Plunk them in ruins somewhere and they'll either be a target, or do work, all game long.

There are a couple things you need to know [MOD EDIT - RULE #1 - Alpharius] First, Lootas can't take a BW as a DT so you are using two slots in one CAD to cover a one squad of shooting.. Unless you actually want the Lootas to disembark somewhere.. Why?

Lastly.. Any squad of 15 Lootas is made better by immediatly making them 3x5 lootas ... the Battlewagon offers no function for them at all. The wagon has no gunz it can also fire at 48"..

Wow... over-react much? What did I ever do to you?

I wanted to offer an apology. I should stay off dakka when I've been drinking. I think I was trying to be mean funny, which it wasn't at all, I'm sorry.

No problem man. We're all talking about toy soldiers. :-p Its all good. We're just REAL Orky.

Well, back on topic. I'm not worried about crowded HS slots, since I'm not opposed to just opening more CAD Detatchment since our troops are so cheap anyway.

I usually field lootaz 9-9-9, but have been considering 12- 15 to free up a BW.

Even fitting 9 models in good terrain with decent LOS is difficult, what do we do with mobs 15 strong? Are the extras just arbitrary wounds?

Does using a mek seem worth losing a gun for a character model for Mob Rule? Is it better to use a HQ slot less mek instead*

I seem to get the impression keeping them as cheap disposable orks is always the better direction...

Any tactical advice for lootaz would be appreciated.

I don't think it would be worth losing a Deffgun for a Mek of any kind to be honest. I can't remember if the Slotless Mek can get a Bosspole, but if he can, definitly toss one in the Wagon with them just to be safe. Less than 20pts just to ensure your mob won't flee/get pinned if the Wagon pops is useful.

And yes, Orks are best run as cheaply as possible, only investing in units that we expect to do things.

As for how to RUN Lootas, I don't think there is a right or wrong way to do it. If you run them in a wagon, you do get one major benefit. It might not seem like it's huge, but it could be. In a wagon, they don't have to worry about clumping up, or better yet, spreading out. All shots come from the same area, meaning every one of them is promised the full range their Deffgun allows. They can also 'reach further' in a way due to the nature of the Battle Wagon.

If you don't mind investing in them, the only way to find out if they work proper is to play test, and play test a lot. If I owned more Lootas, I'd try running a Loota Wagon a few times just for kicks. Now that I have 5 BWs, I can run the Blitz Brigade, so I don't have to worry about congested Heavy Support.

No they can't take a Bosspole sadly.

And unless you plan on running a full 15 loota squad, it's better to use a loota-Mek than an HQ one (one point cheaper, and the HQ one can be used elsewhere.

Characters are always handy, more so if the unit is likely to be targeted, which Lootas are!

 grendel083 wrote:
No they can't take a Bosspole sadly.

And unless you plan on running a full 15 loota squad, it's better to use a loota-Mek than an HQ one (one point cheaper, and the HQ one can be used elsewhere.

Characters are always handy, more so if the unit is likely to be targeted, which Lootas are!

well, at least having the character in there ensures that they wont run off. I just dunno if I'd want to lose a Deffgun to get a normal Mek...IMO, I'd eat the cost and toss a slotless in if it were me. Losing those extra S7 shots would be too much of a blow D: I'd still have 2 more slotless Meks to toss into my other combat squads to eat challenges :p

Melevolence wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:
No they can't take a Bosspole sadly.

And unless you plan on running a full 15 loota squad, it's better to use a loota-Mek than an HQ one (one point cheaper, and the HQ one can be used elsewhere.

Characters are always handy, more so if the unit is likely to be targeted, which Lootas are!

well, at least having the character in there ensures that they wont run off. I just dunno if I'd want to lose a Deffgun to get a normal Mek...IMO, I'd eat the cost and toss a slotless in if it were me. Losing those extra S7 shots would be too much of a blow D: I'd still have 2 more slotless Meks to toss into my other combat squads to eat challenges :p

If you're going for the full 15, then fair enough, the HQ Mek is the way forward.

But a lot of players run around 10. So 11 and convert one to a Mek is the better option in this case.