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Hello Dakkadites,
What tactics should I use against a CSM army if I'm playing Imperial Guard and it's a low point game?

Bring as much AP3 as possible.

or maybe The Steel Host Formation, from WD 23 ?

1 Tank Commander
1 Hydra
3 Lemun Russ Squadrons

Everyone within 12" of the Tank Commander gets prefered enemy

Totally depends on what you guyz bring to the table. Advises might work vs GK as they're a mono-build. But CSM is a variable codex that can approach from many different directions.

I've got loads of AP 1 and 2 (meltavets + plasma CCS), but just not that familiar with the CSM codex.

Leman russes............. Leman Russes every where!

Here is what i would bring, if i just wanted to win!

HQ: CCS

Troops: 2xVets + 1 autocannon

Heavy support: 2x Leman Russ battle tank

500p on the spot!


Enjoy the tears of your foes!

 Auroch wrote:
I've got loads of AP 1 and 2 (meltavets + plasma CCS), but just not that familiar with the CSM codex.

Well, here's how to think about CSM.

Someone is going to bring a Heldrake, unless you are talking less than 500 points. Your troops are going to need to get a lucky shot. Start with that.

For an HQ, watch out for a Chaos Lord with artefacts. He might have a flamer with torrent, or he might have something like the Black Mace (which does extra kills). You don't want to face this guy in cc, so it's usually a good idea to just shoot at him until he's off the table. Same for Daemon Princes. If someone brings a Nurgle DP, that's your target any turn of the game.

With troops, you either have cultists or standard CSMs. Cultists are not really good for much besides mass shooting / attacks in assault. Hit them before they hit you. Standard CSMs, OTOH, get power armor saves. They will die to melta and plasma. Will they die faster than massed lasgun fire? Not sure of the mathhammer here, but my experience against IG has always been that more dice trumps better weapons.

People don't generally take cult troops in low point games. The exception here is Plague Marines, they are not that much more expensive than CSMs but they are a lot tougher. Watch out for Plague Marines, if you know they are coming you might want to bring plasma.

The thing to really watch out for is bikers, especially Nurgle bikers. They are not terribly expensive and are probably CSM's best unit versus IG. If you know you are facing them, massed plasma works wonders.

With regards to heavy support, Predators are a cheap armor selection that can pop up in low point games. They can have heavy bolters or lascannons. Bring something to kill them.

The main things you might face:

That you need to worry about:
Chaos lord on bike + 5 Chaos Spawn (~350 points). The lord will kill anything you have in close combat, the spawn are T6 and 3 wounds each but no save (and move 12")
Lots and lots of cultists. These are hella cheap and are 3 times better at melee than conscripts and about 2 times better at melee than regular guardsmen. If they are part of a helcult they are also fearless (they will be accompanied by a Helbrute who will get a 3+ cover save from the cultists.
Heldrake. Has 12 armour, flies and has a Torrent template that will kill any unit under it on a 2+ (unless its a terminator)
Obliterators. They have T5 (usually) and 2W and can fire any special weapon twin linked or any heavy weapon (expect twin linked meltaguns being shot at fliers and 24" multi meltas shooting at your tanks). They cost 80 points each though!

That you don't need to worry about:
Chaos Space Marines / Plague Marines. These are just regular marines that cost more and aren't fearless (CSM) or are tougher but much more expensive (Plague Marines). They are dealt with in exactly the same way you deal with regular marines.
Noise marines. These are regular marines which fire twice as fast if they stand still (still on 24" range) and their crack missiles ignore cover and are small blasts (they often have FNP too).

Bring a Vendetta. A hell drake or flying psychic daemon prince will smoke you if you don't have a counter.

Depends on your definition of low point game. Mine is up to 1850. Most people is less than 1k. 500 point is what I would call a normal low point game and then that depends on the common sense rules you place on the game, no flyers, nothing higher than AV12, no 2+ or invul saves, nothing higher than 2 wounds(with exceptions for nids) etc.

If it was a normal limited 500 point game, bring a bunch of storm troopers. If higher points than this then your options open up quite a bit. I would not be too concerned with CSM, there are more evil MEQ armies out there to be more concerned about tailoring towards. In fact build your force as if you are facing a normal MEQ army and you will do just fine. Just be sure to ask your opponent about any odd ball units your don't recognize.

I've played a lot of IG vs SM and now my go to army is CSM and really the thing I fear most is heavy bolters en masse. The thing that can cripple a CSM army is mass of dice. I don't play anything close to a net list ever and any game that I make my armour saves, I'll do very well. BUT, if you keep forcing me to roll armour saves then odds are, pretty soon my men will start to drop. A few auto cannons to rough up my rhinos and some heavy bolters to put hits and wounds on my marines and you can do quite well.

It'll likely come down to maneuvering. Chaos Marines can be pretty maneuverable as marines love to ride in rhinos and if they can isolate a unit, it will likely be very dead. Make sure to have some sacrificial units to act as buffers to your main line and set up good firing lanes. Make sure to focus fire as if 2 or 3 marines survive to charge a squad, it'll probably wipe it out. We have to challenge, so either your Sarge is likely dead or cowering and hits on fours wound on 5s after a few guys are already dead at init4 won't make for much damage back.