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What chapter of loyalist do you hate most? What makes you hate them? If hate is too strong a word then maybe the one you like the least or dislike the most? Mine, personally, is the Ultrasmurfs. Being from Indiana I was thrilled when I first saw the wonder of Blue and White space marines with horseshoes on thier shoulders. Then I got more information on them and found them boring as hell. And I know it is not actually a horseshoe but it is awefully dang close. Also, Go Colts!

Space wolves.

1) They're hypocrites, using magic but claiming their power comes from "Fenris" rather than the warp. Claiming purity when using dark magics.
2) According to the books they often don't wear helmets in battle. Just plain stupid.
3) They are mindless dogs of the IoM. They do not think for themselves, they only kill what their masters point to. How can I respect the guard dog?
4) They are too prideful. The slightest insult sends them into a murderous rage.

Space Wolves.

Wolfy wolf wolf wolves wolverine wulfen wolf fang wolves wolf wolverine claw wolf.

Their fluff strikes me as being a confused mess, and they have the most offensive plot armour of any faction.

And Muderfang McMurder Murder Muderface does nothing to help.

Wolves. Because 1++ plot armour.

Wolves.

WereWolf Space Knight Barbarians. As if *just* being a Space Knight wasn't good enough for them!

 changerofways wrote:

4) They are too prideful. The slightest insult sends them into a murderous rage.

Too prideful? You dare impugn the Sons of Russ? I'll have your head for that, upstart pup!

On topic, I love Wolves. Yes, they are over the top. Yes, their fluff is riddled with inconsistencies and embellishments. Yes, they are also entirely hypocritical in their beliefs and ironic from an outside view! You know what else is all those things? 40k! Wolves take everything great about the setting and turn it up to 12 (it was already on 11), which is brilliant!

One I've never liked that much is Templars, mainly because I'm a First Founding/Legion man through and through!

White Scars.

I find them incredibly dull (both game/fluff wise) and the background on them really un-interesting.

I also don't like Space Wolves much, but I find them at least slightly more interesting than the Scars.

-1 for not Having DA as an option (we're still technically loyalists). But I chose Space Wolves. Nothing about their fluff is appealing. They're furry-style Angry Marines, and I think an Angry Marines codex would be much, MUCH cooler.

The Loyalist chapter I like the least?

Space Wolves, by miles, easily. I'll reiterate my position from an older thread.

Their fluff is abysmal in just about every conceivable way. In general they usually seem to be written like some overactive 11 year olds internet fanfic about Space Vikings. We've got everything from firing artillery by smell, to characters with the word "Wolf" or some derivative thereof in their character profile and wargear like 14 times, guys that get to crash Thunderhawks for gaks and giggles and nobody seems to care. They come off as bad comic relief. Then we've got the "berzerker" aspect of SW's being unholy savages in melee combat who love the thrill of battle and are just so much fighter than other Space Marines. Then yet on another hand we've got the "sinister dark executioners" tripe that the other half of the SW fluff is, where no, they're not actually the ridiculous parody faction or mindless berzerkers, they just use it as an excuse to mask their brilliant tactics and master spy networks and incredible generalship. On top of that they've of course got an ironclad sense of honor and hearts of gold for the downtrodden little guy, but don't forget they're still dark nightmarish killers. Oh, and some of them are Werewolves too just for gaks and giggles.

They try to be anything and everything at once and they come off like someone's pet fanfic project where they have to be the "bestest at everythings!". It's like if you tried to mash Orks, Chaos Space Marines, the Inquisition and a dash of Tau into one faction, it just doesn't mesh. Their psykers aren't really "bad" psyekers, they use the native power of Fenris...(You've probably never heard of it /hipster)

Previously, their rules also were massively "Space Marines +1", there was a huge bandwagon following in 5E (in fact IIRC adepticon 2010's most popular army was SW's and only two or three weren't "counts-as"), and they were both shootier and fightier. This isn't the case anymore, but was a big problem for a while.

EDIT: BA's might be a close second for me, but that's not necessarily the faction in and of themselves (I actually quite like much of their Pre-Ward background, I think he did a terrible disservice to them from a fluff standpoint), but rather because I don't think I've ever had a fun game against BA's, primarily because my BA opponents were either outright cheating, whining like bleating goats the whole time, or just general jerkwad TFG's. Out of probably a dozen different BA players I've faced in my time, I think there was maybe *one* I'd ever want another game with again? Not sure what it is about them.

I actually have nothing but fond feelings for all the original loyalist chapters (and BT/CF, why do they get separate entries?).

It's the GK for me. Have you ever read of the horrible things done just to create a box of bolter ammo for them? Hint: innocents are tortured and then killed, so that their suffering and purity can sanctify one round. Then don't get me started on a suit of armor or what happens to failed applicants (which isn't much better than those accepted). Pity the low ranking IG unit who saves a GK from death (usually executed or wiped and then gang slaved). Of course occasionally a planet gets exterminatus just to be sure no one talks.

These guys do more evil in the name of protection and purity than most Chaos Legions. I'm beginning to think the entire chapter became a Tzeentch plot after Malcador and Big E went dark.

No true goodness, kindness, and duty? That's UM, Sallies, IF, and White Scars... I love these guys, closest thing to good guys out there.

 changerofways wrote:
Space wolves.

1) They're hypocrites, using magic but claiming their power comes from "Fenris" rather than the warp. Claiming purity when using dark magics.
2) According to the books they often don't wear helmets in battle. Just plain stupid.
3) They are mindless dogs of the IoM. They do not think for themselves, they only kill what their masters point to. How can I respect the guard dog?
4) They are too prideful. The slightest insult sends them into a murderous rage.

U Mag bro?


I hate DA the most. mostly because i dont like secrets

Hey, yeah. Add DA, OP. Or did they threaten you?

I don't like BA, because I strongly dislike vampires.
And elves, but that doesn't seem relevant.

I actually really like Ultramarines, White Scars, DA. and Wolves. My favorite is Alpha legion, cause their modus operandi is so interesting, but I usually like the loyalist legions based on the civilization they are supposed to represent (supposed to, because wolves have horrible fluff outside of Abnett)

The Wolves. They are too prideful, and most of them are barbariaNS WHO FEEL that they are the most awesome space marines in the world.

 Paradigm wrote:

On topic, I love Wolves. Yes, they are over the top. Yes, their fluff is riddled with inconsistencies and embellishments. Yes, they are also entirely hypocritical in their beliefs and ironic from an outside view! You know what else is all those things? 40k! Wolves take everything great about the setting and turn it up to 12 (it was already on 11), which is brilliant!

One I've never liked that much is Templars, mainly because I'm a First Founding/Legion man through and through!

I agree with your point on space wolves and I too am first founding man. My least favorite has always been Iron Hands, I don't know why, I just can't stand the way they look or their fluff.

I'm always surprised how much ire the 13th legion invokes in 40k players. They are early Roman Empire to a T. Once you filter it that way, the fluff goes from OTT to quiet well conceived. I just think most people don't get it (or the parallels).

 Desubot wrote:

 changerofways wrote:
Space wolves.

1) They're hypocrites, using magic but claiming their power comes from "Fenris" rather than the warp. Claiming purity when using dark magics.
2) According to the books they often don't wear helmets in battle. Just plain stupid.
3) They are mindless dogs of the IoM. They do not think for themselves, they only kill what their masters point to. How can I respect the guard dog?
4) They are too prideful. The slightest insult sends them into a murderous rage.

U Mag bro?


I hate DA the most. mostly because i dont like secrets

What?! If it wasn't for us, the Unforgiven, then Horus would be the Lord over all of Man. I that how you want things to end? As a world ruled by Chaos? If you think the Fallen are the biggest secret the DA have, then don't think about how they manage to hide an entire Chapter, created before the heresy in a secret founding (that is da fluff for my Iron Angels). Don't lesten to me, I'm just a very loyal Iron Angels Space Marine.

I must be mad - because I like both The Ultramarines AND the Space Wolves.... sigh.

In order of dislike:

Dark Angels.
Grey Knights.
Ultramarines.
White Scars.

 Stormwall wrote:
In order of dislike:

Dark Angels.
Grey Knights.
Ultramarines.
White Scars.

I own and play (sorta) all of those.

My favs

UM
WS
DA
IF (and CF/BT)
IH
SW
Sallies

SW... they attacked Prospero. end of story.

 ArmageddonBorn wrote:
SW... they attacked Prospero. end of story.

What are you some sort of Tzeentch lover?

 Great White wrote:

 ArmageddonBorn wrote:
SW... they attacked Prospero. end of story.

What are you some sort of Tzeentch lover?

Probably likes the GK then (see my first post in thread).

white scars. Too many bikes

Grey Knights - Even considering the extremes mankind must go to make sure it stays alive, GK and the Ordo Malleus inquisitors go to "Chaos Demon" extremes.

Dark Angels.

Just get over it already.

Of the options available, I'd say White Scars. The bikes everywhere motif does little for me.

The rest are cool enough. I actuay think the Ultramarines are pretty rad in their own way. Space Wolves are weird and silly, but the idea is fun.

You know what, though? Screw the Minotaurs. Those guys suck.

 Lobukia wrote:
I actually have nothing but fond feelings for all the original loyalist chapters (and BT/CF, why do they get separate entries?).

It's the GK for me. Have you ever read of the horrible things done just to create a box of bolter ammo for them? Hint: innocents are tortured and then killed, so that their suffering and purity can sanctify one round. Then don't get me started on a suit of armor or what happens to failed applicants (which isn't much better than those accepted).

Whoa where did you get this from? I know a GREAT deal of fluff for many factions of 40k, and GK are my thing but I've never read about this, in fact I want to say your making that up (I can't debate the GK purges though those definitely happen).

EDIT: I would also say Marines Malevolent need to get smacked down, preferably by the Minotaurs and the two get into a extended war with each other and kill each other off.

Blood Angels for me. Solely because of that whole "space vampires" thing.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Blood Angels for me. Solely because of that whole "space vampires" thing.

What bout space wolfs for there werewolves in space?