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So I read a thread recently in which a couple of people said they had bought a load of Orks, read the codex, taken a dislike to the rules, and then decided to simply sell their models.

I guess some people are more into the tournament scene than others, but this seems a bit odd to me. IMHO 40k is far too expensive, far too random and far too involved on the painting and modelling side to be a good choice for someone who cares solely about competitive play. Especially when you choose a notoriously random army like Orks.

To my mind, competitiveness is only relevant to casual games to the extent that I don't want to be penalised for taking models I like that are complete trash in the game... But I really don't think Orks are THAT bad, I.e. so bad that I regret my purchase. Mine do fine at my FLGS, even against more experienced players, and that's without a huge degree of list optimisation.

Do some people really do THAT badly?

Orks can be competitive. They're just not an easy army to play well.

You can't just grab the Codex and expect to be top, it's not Eldar or Tau! This army takes skill

I'm happy for people to sell their Orks without bothering to find out how to play them. More deals on Ebay for the Ork players that know what they're doing.

 grendel083 wrote:
Orks can be competitive. They're just not an easy army to play well.
You can't just grab the Codex and expect to be top, it's not Eldar or Tau! This army takes skill
I'm happy for people to sell their Orks without bothering to find out how to play them. More deals on Ebay for the Ork players that know what they're doing.

I'm essentially with Grendel on this one, except i do think it takes quite a bit of luck too.

Consider going up against 3 knight erands or 3 Wraithknights. Armies which run super have a much higher chance of winning than those without. If you meet an equally skilled opponent, the game becomes a test of dice rolling as much as what you army can generate in terms .

I think the main way to think of it is this: new players, as in NEW new players, won't typically have that much experience with Orks. Due to the low cost points cost, they have to spend more $$$ or £££ to make up the army. For any new player, this isn't appealing. Not compared to armies which have a low model count. This is where casual play hurts.

If a player buys models for how cool they look (as GW would like us to do), then orks will never be competitive (perhaps personal preference, but I really like the flashgits and Nobs models but find them very under-par compared to other things in the army, deff dreads too for that matter).

Orks, for a long time, were considered to be the "learner's army": easy to learn and use, easy to paint, easy to throw in a box due to their sturdy model structure (compare against delicate eldars). They also scaled well. They were able to preform well in tournaments in the previous codex, some argue better than they do now-a-days. You didn't need THAT much skill to win a casual game with orks. These days, I feel that as soon as I see a Tau, Eldar, Astrum, Necron, Flying Deamon or Nid armies (and SOME varients of MEQs) then I instantly feel at a disadvantage and I really wish I wasn't so pessimistic going INTO the battle. That's a bad mindset even before you start. A good Bike army can deal with the first 4 teams, otherwise a Tide is painful to play because I'm too lazy to move 100+ models.

Perhaps it is just me being pessimistic. Before 6th ed I was never very confident facing against Tau, Eldar, Necrons or Nids (i hated playing against nids tbh) and these days they are all over the tournament scene. So I understand where these guys are coming from. If you want your beginners to keep playing ANY game, then they have to win SOME of the time. No one will keep playing a game that they KEEP loosing with, forcing them to either invest more, or be better. Being better at the game is harder for some people.

Consider the most common units you see in play these days. Wraithknights, Riptides, Astrum tanks, Flyrants... now think about the easiest way for Orks to deal with these units. Long time ork players continue to play either because they love to convert or because they generally understand they like a challenge.

What do you consider Orks to have a fair fight against? I would say MEQs these days. Which seems weird...

 grendel083 wrote:
Orks can be competitive. They're just not an easy army to play well.

You can't just grab the Codex and expect to be top, it's not Eldar or Tau! This army takes skill

I'm happy for people to sell their Orks without bothering to find out how to play them. More deals on Ebay for the Ork players that know what they're doing.

Second this. Orks ain't gona have a 100% win rate. And our certain builds that shine in many situations have hardcounters. But we can go toe to toe even with the smelliest cheeze out there. Mostly cause this cheeze is centered around killing anything with almost identical effectiveness. Good our stuff costs 2 times less

And we're good ad midboard controle. Which is often a key to victory in maelstorm.

Sketchy, I can't really argue when it comes to the tournament scene. But I do know that I do alright for myself in *casual* games, and that's without taking an uber-optimised list. In fact, I find that my opponents often underestimate them and pay the price. I just can't imagine wanting to sell my entire collection based solely on a perceived lack of tournament competitiveness. Different strokes, I guess.

 Krusha wrote:
Sketchy, I can't really argue when it comes to the tournament scene. But I do know that I do alright for myself in *casual* games, and that's without taking an uber-optimised list. In fact, I find that my opponents often underestimate them and pay the price. I just can't imagine wanting to sell my entire collection based solely on a perceived lack of tournament competitiveness. Different strokes, I guess.

Oh god no, anyone who is willing to sell their entire army JUST BECAUSE it's not competitively good is full blown NUTS, to the degree of a bonkers squirrel who believes jelly babies want to eat their soul. In X years time that army (orks in this case) could very easily become the top tier army. That's pretty much what happened to Eldar and Tau players. You rarely saw people playing them because they didn't THAT well pre 6th edition.

It IS a game and I also couldn't imagine selling my orks either. I don't go into a battle expecting to win. I go in hoping to cause chaos as possible. I took up this game to make cool conversions. Check out my gallery and you'll see what I mean. I love playing, because people always come over to see a table made up of so many unique and weird contraptions. Call me a show off, it's a very accurate description tbh.

 grendel083 wrote:
Orks can be competitive. They're just not an easy army to play well.

You can't just grab the Codex and expect to be top, it's not Eldar or Tau! This army takes skill

I'm happy for people to sell their Orks without bothering to find out how to play them. More deals on Ebay for the Ork players that know what they're doing.

Like me! I just snagged 3 BWs for 30 bucks a pop, fully assembled and painted well and 12 Stormboyz for 20 bucks. I'm a happy Warboss. That Blitz Brigade is happening in my local store now. They shall fear my Kunnin wagons!

Edit: But yes, Orks do take a bit more skill to use than others. We have a unit for virtually everything. Grots/Boyz for Objectives/Tarpitting, Tankbustas for Anti-Armor, Mek Gunz for Anti-Air, Anti-Armor/Anti-MC AND Anti-Infantry. We have fliers that can hound down other fliers or harass ground units easily, we have a Psycher at the very least to help with Psycher defense, we have an HQ designed to keep units alive longer (painboy), we have termi-like Orks that can destroy almost anything this game has to offer with very little difficulty (BUT they do require some investment in protection to get them around).

Our army is broad. It's fun! It CAN be competitive. Orks just don't have the 'I NEED this unit EVERY game, and I NEED as many of them as possible. The only exception I could think of would be Kustom Mega Kannons. 36" S8 Ap2 blasts at BS3 for a mere quarter is rediculously good. Can be taken in batteries of up to 5! That's INSANE S8 spam for our army that LAUGHS at Marines and their ilk.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sketchyfk wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:
Orks can be competitive. They're just not an easy army to play well.
You can't just grab the Codex and expect to be top, it's not Eldar or Tau! This army takes skill
I'm happy for people to sell their Orks without bothering to find out how to play them. More deals on Ebay for the Ork players that know what they're doing.

I'm essentially with Grendel on this one, except i do think it takes quite a bit of luck too.

Consider going up against 3 knight erands or 3 Wraithknights. Armies which run super have a much higher chance of winning than those without. If you meet an equally skilled opponent, the game becomes a test of dice rolling as much as what you army can generate in terms .

I think the main way to think of it is this: new players, as in NEW new players, won't typically have that much experience with Orks. Due to the low cost points cost, they have to spend more $$$ or £££ to make up the army. For any new player, this isn't appealing. Not compared to armies which have a low model count. This is where casual play hurts.

If a player buys models for how cool they look (as GW would like us to do), then orks will never be competitive (perhaps personal preference, but I really like the flashgits and Nobs models but find them very under-par compared to other things in the army, deff dreads too for that matter).

Orks, for a long time, were considered to be the "learner's army": easy to learn and use, easy to paint, easy to throw in a box due to their sturdy model structure (compare against delicate eldars). They also scaled well. They were able to preform well in tournaments in the previous codex, some argue better than they do now-a-days. You didn't need THAT much skill to win a casual game with orks. These days, I feel that as soon as I see a Tau, Eldar, Astrum, Necron, Flying Deamon or Nid armies (and SOME varients of MEQs) then I instantly feel at a disadvantage and I really wish I wasn't so pessimistic going INTO the battle. That's a bad mindset even before you start. A good Bike army can deal with the first 4 teams, otherwise a Tide is painful to play because I'm too lazy to move 100+ models.

Perhaps it is just me being pessimistic. Before 6th ed I was never very confident facing against Tau, Eldar, Necrons or Nids (i hated playing against nids tbh) and these days they are all over the tournament scene. So I understand where these guys are coming from. If you want your beginners to keep playing ANY game, then they have to win SOME of the time. No one will keep playing a game that they KEEP loosing with, forcing them to either invest more, or be better. Being better at the game is harder for some people.

Consider the most common units you see in play these days. Wraithknights, Riptides, Astrum tanks, Flyrants... now think about the easiest way for Orks to deal with these units. Long time ork players continue to play either because they love to convert or because they generally understand they like a challenge.

What do you consider Orks to have a fair fight against? I would say MEQs these days. Which seems weird...

On a side note about Orks back in the day: Back then, we didn't have super heavy spam like we do today under the guise of a standalone army :p

I also feel my Orks run good, close games against MEQ, IG, and even the Necron player I've had good, close games with. As long as no one runs super cheese, any army has a good chance against one another. That's what a lot of people don't seem to get. It's when you just blatantly take ONLY the best, and doing everything you can to squeeze more of those in your list that things get too lopsided.

 Krusha wrote:
So I read a thread recently in which a couple of people said they had bought a load of Orks, read the codex, taken a dislike to the rules, and then decided to simply sell their models.

I guess some people are more into the tournament scene than others, but this seems a bit odd to me. IMHO 40k is far too expensive, far too random and far too involved on the painting and modelling side to be a good choice for someone who cares solely about competitive play. Especially when you choose a notoriously random army like Orks.

To my mind, competitiveness is only relevant to casual games to the extent that I don't want to be penalised for taking models I like that are complete trash in the game... But I really don't think Orks are THAT bad, I.e. so bad that I regret my purchase. Mine do fine at my FLGS, even against more experienced players, and that's without a huge degree of list optimisation.

Do some people really do THAT badly?

At Tournaments, the Eldar WaveSpam and the Chaos Daemon Flying Monstrous Creature Circus are the two things a Tournament army must be able to defeat. Sure there's lots of othr armies and you have to defeat them too. But these two in particular are bellweathers in competitive play.

Orks have no anti-air worth talking about (they are more ground attack aircraft than anti-air fighters, truthfully) and the hit to their ground and pound for taking three such fighters is too high. Couple that with their relative lack of Psykers given the hit, here again, to their Ground and pound that including them causes is equally troubling against the two power houses I just mentioned.

Now clearly they can beat both in their own ways. having said that, it's so up hill that the thought of it probably dissuades competitive types from bothering.

Sometimes it isnt that you cant win. Its that you cant win easily or as easily.

Orks are easily the most fun army to play against. Easily. but im not going to fool myself: when either of the aforementioned is fighting orks, they have a significant advantage to start the game and I will need to marshal my excellence in order to compete.

but thats fun to me so Im not selling nothing!

 Jancoran wrote:
Orks have no anti-air worth talking about

Eh?

Orks have THE best anti-aircraft unit in the game. Traktor Kannons!

LOL! This is funny to me...

Most people I play vs say orks are top tier now. The new codex took away some awesome special rules that everyone loved i admit that! But besides that I rock with orks and can even beat the crap out of eldar (Tau different story) and most other races. It takes some understanding to play orks but once you get it you can dominate!

Also I play different styles of ork from mek mob to green tide. Never get the crap beaten out of me I do worse with my salamanders.

Advice for all new orks players "Boyz before toyz!!"

That is all....

Orks are that bad habit I can't put down.... they always dissapoint me but I give them one more chance!

It is disheartening to have a whole army of bullet catchers though.... footslog doesent work. Trukks don't work. Lately I just use them as a green carpet and just (try to) laugh when my opponents hardened battle plans fall through. It's like a charity case. "Here you go! Let's see how many orks your tank spam IG can kill today! In having "fun"! No saves again? You're good at this."

You're doing something wrong.

Foots slogging can work. It's the principle on which Green Tide is based on.

Trukks work, and work very well. Just don't expect them to survive long.

Saves? A tanking re-rollable 2+ works well. 5++ or 4++ invulnerable bubbles. Warbikes Jinking on a 2+. 'Eavy Armour everywhere!

 grendel083 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Orks have no anti-air worth talking about

Eh?
Orks have THE best anti-aircraft unit in the game. Traktor Kannons!

Competitively, while Orks may have the best anti-air gun in the game, the issue goes to how you field it.

Imagine some of the major threats which orks face against and think about ONE list which can accurately counter them without constantly having to alter the list:
-- Traktor Kannons ARE good. But if your foe isn't running them then you've wasted points.
-- If your foe HAS brought something like Flying Nids or a Flying D.Circus, then how many Traktors do you take? Remember this is where the issue comes against as you can only have 3 HS slows (unless you have multiple CADS). IF orks had split fire (which does actually make sense, orks aren't exactly going to be orginised enough to fire at the same target ANYWAY) then this wouldn't be an issue.

To me, I would prefer 15 lootas just because they are useful when there are no fliers around.

Trakktor kannons are great vs flyers but are meh vs most dangerous MC with 3+ or good invuls that also don't mind getting grounded to charge your backlines. And i'd not tell i have much trouble with just flyers even without anti-air whatsoever. Especially with their limited mobility and arc of fire compared to FMC.

So, while good on paper, Trakktors are still not good enough vs FMC like flyrants or daemon FMC which are the main source of headache from above.

zombiekila707 wrote:LOL! This is funny to me... Most people I play vs say orks are top tier now... play different styles of ork from mek mob to green tide. Never get the crap beaten out of me I do worse with my salamanders... Advice for all new orks players "Boyz before toyz!!" That is all....

What kind of other armies do you face against? The downside of comments like this is that the people reading them have no basis to see how good you are or the kinds of players you play against. If you play against nothing but top level tournament armies, then it means you've found a unique way of playing which makes you awesome, and the rest of us are just ignorant of this. If this is the case, please share and example army list to demonstrate how you ACTUALLY could take out Tau and Eldar with the same, unaltered list. THAT's the key to the competitive play vs casual play.

grendel083 wrote:

Nightlord1987 wrote:Orks are that bad habit I can't put down.... they always dissapoint me but I give them one more chance!

It is disheartening to have a whole army of bullet catchers though.... footslog doesent work. Trukks don't work. Lately I just use them as a green carpet and just (try to) laugh when my opponents hardened battle plans fall through. It's like a charity case. "Here you go! Let's see how many orks your tank spam IG can kill today! In having "fun"! No saves again? You're good at this."

You're doing something wrong. Foots slogging can work. It's the principle on which Green Tide is based on.

Trukks work, and work very well. Just don't expect them to survive long. Saves? A tanking re-rollable 2+ works well. 5++ or 4++ invulnerable bubbles. Warbikes Jinking on a 2+. 'Eavy Armour everywhere!

Warbikes Jink on a 3+ (2+ with skilled rider forgeworld). Tau can remove coversaves but i'm pretty sure they'd struggle to remove 15 in on turn.

Zombiekila said about Boys before Toys. IMO, with the new Mob Rule, if you wish to play Boys before Toys, then you need the Big Bosspole for Fearless. The new codex means Orks must find a way of getting around Fear and the Mob Rule. Grendel is right. Orks can be built to have saves, but the more armor you add, the less boys you'll be fielding. It completely depends on your play style.

New mob rule ain't as bad as it's depicted by the net. Furthermore, it's pretty much a lifesaver in many cases like when you've loas a mellee or have a smaller unit. Both happens quite often.

 koooaei wrote:
New mob rule ain't as bad as it's depicted by the net. Furthermore, it's pretty much a lifesaver in many cases like when you've loas a mellee or have a smaller unit. Both happens quite often.

Exactly. In most cases, your army is basically psudo-fearless. As long as your units have a character in them anyway. I've really never had a unit run with the Mob Rule, and i rarely lose many models to it on top of that.

Second of all, the Boyz Before Toyz mantra is still pretty solid. I run a lot of foot slogging. You can still pack 60 or so Boyz in your list with a bit of love here or there, and bring PLENTY of stuff with you. The idea is that a 100% foot slogging army is asking for trouble. You let the Boyz hoof it while your important stuff rides in vehicles, or you bring a LOT of Mek Gun or flier support to hammer their lines.

The hate on the mob rule makes me wonder if people are even using the army at all, or they just like to complain about things. Seriously. This new mob rule is NOT that bad.

As for not being fearless and worrying about fear, I find needing to take a fear check is rare. At least in my meta...in fact...I can't recall a time I've ever faced anything forcing such a test.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sketchyfk wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Orks have no anti-air worth talking about

Eh?
Orks have THE best anti-aircraft unit in the game. Traktor Kannons!

Competitively, while Orks may have the best anti-air gun in the game, the issue goes to how you field it.

Imagine some of the major threats which orks face against and think about ONE list which can accurately counter them without constantly having to alter the list:
-- Traktor Kannons ARE good. But if your foe isn't running them then you've wasted points.
-- If your foe HAS brought something like Flying Nids or a Flying D.Circus, then how many Traktors do you take? Remember this is where the issue comes against as you can only have 3 HS slows (unless you have multiple CADS). IF orks had split fire (which does actually make sense, orks aren't exactly going to be orginised enough to fire at the same target ANYWAY) then this wouldn't be an issue.

To me, I would prefer 15 lootas just because they are useful when there are no fliers around.

To answer your question:

Mek Gunz can be taken in batteries of 5. You can fit 3 batteries in your army if you really want to use up some Heavy Support slots. You can mix and match the gunz in your battery. So, if I were to go into a tournament, I'd either:

A. Run one battery of 5 Traktors.
B. Run 3 batteries that consister of 3 Kustom Mega Kannonz and 2 Traktor Kannons each
C. However else you want to mix and match.

Even if they didn't bring fliers, they can also hammer skimmers as well, which is also big. If they didn't bring any of the above, the gun can still snap shot at the very least. By doing option B, you give yourself multiple units that have the option to fire pot shots at land units or fire at an aircraft/flying monster. This also makes each battery equal in target pressure, and makes them spread out firepower to try to hammer out the Traktor Gunz. It also allows you to shoot more AA guns at different targets. Option A means you get 5 shots at a single target. You'll pretty much guarantee you crash a flier, or ground a MC, but you'll be a bit scrapped if they have other flier targets. So, using option B allows you to fire 2 shots at 3 different flier/skimmer targets and you should have an easy time bringing them down.

Sleepy, that post was kinda a mess but the point is across.

The guns are 25 points. It's hardly a waste of points, even when snap shotting. What other army has access to such insanely cheap and effective artillery?

A battery of 3 Traktor Kannons makes it into almost every force I take now. Extra Krew and Ammo runts. Not often that I come across a force that has no Flyers, FMC or Skimmers.

It's enough to deal with most flyers. FMC normally have at most a 3+ and rarely a decent invulnerable.

My problem with grounding FMC is that they actually want to get grounded when in my backlines not to waste a turn on doing it. So, i just treat flying stuff as inevitable evil and focus on what's within reach. That's just me, however. Trakktors are valid. Especially when we've got a 3-raven formation that allows deepstriking without scatter and charge out of deepstrike floating on the horizon.

True, depends on the FMC.

A hive Tyrant will generally not want to get grounded.
A recently summoned Bloodthirster however, I'm going to ignore and not try and ground.

And yeah, that Formation is a bit odd. They seem to have gone to great lengths removing all abilities to charge after arriving from reserve, then give one back?

You're right. That's probably just my blood axe approach to the matter. Why try to counter something when i can play around it with somewhat identical results.

But yep, i see how trakktors could be useful in many matchups. Just haven't yet been forced to change the avoidance and screening strategy so far.

 koooaei wrote:
But yep, i see how trakktors could be useful in many matchups. Just haven't yet been forced to change the avoidance and screening strategy so far.

That's something I'm really liking about the current Codex. There's always more than one valid approach to any given situation.
It's all about finding what works best for you.

Warbike jinking on a 2+? Did i miss something? Its not +1 if you have turbo boost so you pass from jink 4+ to jink 3+ ?

You say trukk work and after you say heavy armor everywhere, that 10 pts the models for ard choppa boyz. So with a pk, bp nob in a trukk with 11 ard boyz its 180. Do you field all your trukk like this and you win?

I have a hard time as well playing competetive with my Orks. I loved them but i found they are a lot more difficult then before to play. I use to win 4 on 5 games and now its more 1 on 5 games.

Whrn reading this post i feel like i do my list wrong...

 calarok wrote:
Warbike jinking on a 2+? Did i miss something? Its not +1 if you have turbo boost so you pass from jink 4+ to jink 3+ ?

There are ways of boosting it. NightFighting is the most obvious.
Strategic Warlord Trait (easier to get with Da Finkin' Cap). Zhadshard...

You say trukk work and after you say heavy armor everywhere, that 10 pts the models for ard choppa boyz. So with a pk, bp nob in a trukk with 11 ard boyz its 180. Do you field all your trukk like this and you win?

Takes more than a bit of wargear to win
Some people like armoured Trukk boys. They survive exploding Trukks easier, and small arms fire.
Others prefer to spend the points on more Trukk boys.
Whichever route you take, you need multiple Trukks, and to really push forwards with them.

I have a hard time as well playing competetive with my Orks. I loved them but i found they are a lot more difficult then before to play. I use to win 4 on 5 games and now its more 1 on 5 games.

Times have changed, tactics need to change as well. If you're going for the Speed a Freak approach you need to aim for a turn 2 charge with as much as possible.
You'll loose Trukks on the way, so either get more Trukks or protect them (screening, KFF bubble etc..)

Melevolence wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
New mob rule ain't as bad as it's depicted by the net. Furthermore, it's pretty much a lifesaver in many cases like when you've loas a mellee or have a smaller unit. Both happens quite often.

Exactly. In most cases... *its* ... psudo-fearless. As long as your units have a character

...The hate on the mob rule makes me wonder if people are even using the army at all, or they just like to complain about things. Seriously. This new mob rule is NOT that bad.
As for not being fearless and worrying about fear, I find needing to take a fear check is rare. At least in my meta...in fact...I can't recall a time I've ever faced anything forcing such a test.

Admittadly I don't play nearly as much as I would like to but the Mob rule is also taken on Pinning checks, which happens alot in my area. I think it's not bad if you don't prepare for it, that's the key. As many people have said, orks ARE a difficult army to play effective. Having multiple big threats to make sure other units aren't picked off so quickly is the key.

It think the reason people complain is because they don't want to see their OWN army kill themselves. Much like when Nids first came out and everyone was up in arms about synapse and loosing control of their army. It would make sense IF the army was OP'd originally then had this drawback to counteract it, but orks are certainly not OP.

Compare to Necrons. They're an army with alot of power already AND the ability to keep their guys around via the ressurection orb. This COULD be something that Orks have as the fungal spores are meant to grow more orks. Or lootas to create completely wrecked vechiles into working ones again. IF orks had the ability to create rapidly (similar to their lore, perhaps not for the fungus spores but im sure they could make a weird device for that) THEN i would understand something like the Mob Rule which also kills us off.

Running away has very rarely happened to me. My dislike is watching my own guys die to thier own codex. The original Bosspole had a similar affect, but wasn't nearly as bad.
Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sketchyfk wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Orks have no anti-air worth talking about

Eh?
Orks have THE best anti-aircraft unit in the game. Traktor Kannons!

Competitively, while Orks may have the best anti-air gun in the game, the issue goes to how you field it.

Imagine some of the major threats which orks face against and think about ONE list which can accurately counter them without constantly having to alter the list:
-- Traktor Kannons ARE good. But if your foe isn't running them then you've wasted points.
-- If your foe HAS brought something like Flying Nids or a Flying D.Circus, then how many Traktors do you take? Remember this is where the issue comes against as you can only have 3 HS slows (unless you have multiple CADS). IF orks had split fire (which does actually make sense, orks aren't exactly going to be orginised enough to fire at the same target ANYWAY) then this wouldn't be an issue.

To me, I would prefer 15 lootas just because they are useful when there are no fliers around.

To answer your question:

Mek Gunz can be taken in batteries of 5. You can fit 3 batteries in your army if you really want to use up some Heavy Support slots. You can mix and match the gunz in your battery. So, if I were to go into a tournament, I'd either:

A. Run one battery of 5 Traktors.
B. Run 3 batteries that consister of 3 Kustom Mega Kannonz and 2 Traktor Kannons each
C. However else you want to mix and match.

Even if they didn't bring fliers, they can also hammer skimmers as well, which is also big. If they didn't bring any of the above, the gun can still snap shot at the very least. By doing option B, you give yourself multiple units that have the option to fire pot shots at land units or fire at an aircraft/flying monster. This also makes each battery equal in target pressure, and makes them spread out firepower to try to hammer out the Traktor Gunz. It also allows you to shoot more AA guns at different targets. Option A means you get 5 shots at a single target. You'll pretty much guarantee you crash a flier, or ground a MC, but you'll be a bit scrapped if they have other flier targets. So, using option B allows you to fire 2 shots at 3 different flier/skimmer targets and you should have an easy time bringing them down.

Sleepy, that post was kinda a mess but the point is across.

The guns are 25 points. It's hardly a waste of points, even when snap shotting. What other army has access to such insanely cheap and effective artillery?

 grendel083 wrote:

Whichever route you take, you need multiple Trukks, and to really push forwards with them.

Not necesserely. You need multiples and being aggressive if you're running speed freaks. But when you got 1-2 supporting trucks, i'd not be as certain on alwayz rushing forward. Sometimes it's more profitable to holdback till the moment arises or even go in reserves. I run a single truck full of 'ardboyz in my mostly footslogging army. And find that a single truck can alwayz find it's place and be very useful. That's mostly due to terrain. You can alwayz hide one. Same with a small-sized stormboyz squad (~10 guyz). These guyz are super-helpful for my footsloggas

 koooaei wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:

Whichever route you take, you need multiple Trukks, and to really push forwards with them.

Not necesserely. You need multiples and being aggressive if you're running speed freaks. But when you got 1-2 supporting trucks, i'd not be as certain on alwayz rushing forward. Sometimes it's more profitable to holdback till the moment arises or even go in reserves. I run a single truck full of 'ardboyz in my mostly footslogging army. And find that a single truck can alwayz find it's place and be very useful. That's mostly due to terrain. You can alwayz hide one. Same with a small-sized stormboyz squad (~10 guyz). These guyz are super-helpful for my footsloggas

Yep, also valid. Not tried a single Trukk myself, but I can see the use.

If there's a spare HS slot going (and with multiple detachments there should be) I'd even consider a Looted Wagon in place of the Trukk if going singles. Not much cost difference, slightly better armour, and more weapon options. I like them for Tankbustas, with 3 Rokkits

And Stormboyz are just too cool.

Not only cool, stormboyz provide a 23'-27' (on average) charge threat range on waaagh.

 grendel083 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Orks have no anti-air worth talking about

Eh?

Orks have THE best anti-aircraft unit in the game. Traktor Kannons!

I wont argue with that. The traktor Cannon is boh hilarious and good. You are then committing to probably a lot of money to make that unit happen but you're not wrong. I stand corrected!

 Jancoran wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Orks have no anti-air worth talking about

Eh?

Orks have THE best anti-aircraft unit in the game. Traktor Kannons!

I wont argue with that. The traktor Cannon is boh hilarious and good. You are then committing to probably a lot of money to make that unit happen but you're not wrong. I stand corrected!

Points for a traktor is like 30 points not to bad on a list I always cram in two just in case.

But money wise yes 40 bucks for a weapon platform deal is kinda lame! But you can convert!