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I'm lucky in that I have a battery of the Old Skool 2nd Ed Traktors.

Adds a nice bit of variety next to the new Kustom Mega Kannon battery

Issue I have had with traktor kannons is the skimmer or flyer can still just jink. Vs eldar that's a 3+ cover on serpeants. At that point regular kannons are just as good and cheaper.

I've only had them take a flyer out once before dying.

I've been having better luck with Zzap guns for overall use.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
Issue I have had with traktor kannons is the skimmer or flyer can still just jink. Vs eldar that's a 3+ cover on serpeants. At that point regular kannons are just as good and cheaper.

I've only had them take a flyer out once before dying.

I've been having better luck with Zzap guns for overall use.

Out of how many games though? Having bad luck in a few games doesn't realy give enough data to prove their worth on a grander scale.

In regards to jink, I'd much rather get the Traktor hits than a Kannon hit, even if they are jinking. Especially with a flier. Because if their jink fails, they are probably going to die due to Traktor making them do that test. If a Kannon hits despite them trying to jink...that's it. You got a hit. No extra benefit.

I need to get my hands on some of them to try them out in some Apoc games. Pretty much the only time I see fliers (Outside of a BA player who brings fliers no matter what point level we are playing).

Melevolence wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
Issue I have had with traktor kannons is the skimmer or flyer can still just jink. Vs eldar that's a 3+ cover on serpeants. At that point regular kannons are just as good and cheaper.

I've only had them take a flyer out once before dying.

I've been having better luck with Zzap guns for overall use.

Out of how many games though? Having bad luck in a few games doesn't realy give enough data to prove their worth on a grander scale.

In regards to jink, I'd much rather get the Traktor hits than a Kannon hit, even if they are jinking. Especially with a flier. Because if their jink fails, they are probably going to die due to Traktor making them do that test. If a Kannon hits despite them trying to jink...that's it. You got a hit. No extra benefit.

I need to get my hands on some of them to try them out in some Apoc games. Pretty much the only time I see fliers (Outside of a BA player who brings fliers no matter what point level we are playing).

"enough data" isn't a real argument. No offense. wins are wins. that's just my take on things. I dislike it immensely when someone tries to ignore actual game play events by suggesting that it somehow requires a million games doing it to "prove" soemthing.

This is a dice game. You're dancing with fire with every guess you make anyways.

 Jancoran wrote:

Melevolence wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
Issue I have had with traktor kannons is the skimmer or flyer can still just jink. Vs eldar that's a 3+ cover on serpeants. At that point regular kannons are just as good and cheaper.

I've only had them take a flyer out once before dying.

I've been having better luck with Zzap guns for overall use.

Out of how many games though? Having bad luck in a few games doesn't realy give enough data to prove their worth on a grander scale.

In regards to jink, I'd much rather get the Traktor hits than a Kannon hit, even if they are jinking. Especially with a flier. Because if their jink fails, they are probably going to die due to Traktor making them do that test. If a Kannon hits despite them trying to jink...that's it. You got a hit. No extra benefit.

I need to get my hands on some of them to try them out in some Apoc games. Pretty much the only time I see fliers (Outside of a BA player who brings fliers no matter what point level we are playing).

"enough data" isn't a real argument. No offense. wins are wins. that's just my take on things. I dislike it immensely when someone tries to ignore actual game play events by suggesting that it somehow requires a million games doing it to "prove" soemthing.

This is a dice game. You're dancing with fire with every guess you make anyways.

You can dislike it all you want. It doesn't ignore the fact that statistics do matter in this. You can't grade a unit just by looking at its entry in the book. We have all come to terms with this. So, you have to put it to work to see how it performs. Of course it's a dice game. But again, that doesn't nullify that you need to try gak out first. People bash the Morkanaught/Gorkanaught for being bad units. ON PAPER. I've gotten loads of mileage from mine. But my track run alone doesn't really mean anything. But if we gathered up all the reports from every Ork player using this unit, compare how much mileage was gained on the whole...we could then conclude this unit is either worth taking or not.

If I took my Naught to two games, and lost two games, that is not indicative that the unit is bad or isn't capable of pulling its weight.

For me to judge the unit on my own stats alone, I need to run enough games to see how the model averages. So if I played 20 games, but the naught didn't perform for 15 of those games...then I could begin to conclude the unit is not worth bringing often.

I didnt suggest NOT trying things out. If anything the opposite. But once you Do so, ignorign the results you got is what I don't like.

Strategy and tactics has a lot to do with the value of a given unit and so I just have a burning dislike for anyone who suggests that real results can be erased by some kind of bean counter analysis of why it "shouldnt". the REALITY is that it does when used in X way or deployed in Y manner and those facts dont change no matter what a bean counter says.

 Jancoran wrote:
I didnt suggest NOT trying things out. If anything the opposite. But once you Do so, ignorign the results you got is what I don't like.

Strategy and tactics has a lot to do with the value of a given unit and so I just have a burning dislike for anyone who suggests that real results can be erased by some kind of bean counter analysis of why it "shouldnt". the REALITY is that it does when used in X way or deployed in Y manner and those facts dont change no matter what a bean counter says.

No one here from what I've seen have discounted any of those factors.

In my in-game experiences people either flood the table with 3+ flyers or none at all. The few times my traktor were usefull was for that rare 1 flyer list.

Every other game they fired once, then got killed. No heavy flyer list has let them stay on the board in my games.

If they had AP 2 I think they would be more usefull vs skimmers. But vs skimmers kannons are just as good and cheaper.

how? they have 20 Tough 7 wounds to protect them?

I take traktors for anti fmc personally, but its ability to make flyers go boom is a nice little bonus. The way the meta's shapen up it looks like fmc spam may be on a comeback so us warbosses are gonna need to be able to ground those pesky flyrants, daemons, dreadknights, ect. asap and charge in the pk's, lika-a-boss.

 Jancoran wrote:
how? they have 20 Tough 7 wounds to protect them?

You basically just need to kill a couple grots or pull a wound with a pinning weapon or pull one psy shreik or something. No need to kill all when the guy'z ld is 5. Meks mitigate it to a certain level but LD 7 ain't great either and noone to die in challenges instead of your more important characters.

Our artillery is great. It's super killy for the points. And it's stupid durable for frontal attacks. But when someone flanks you and kills a couple of grots, the rest are running away.

well but the Big Mek just sits back there and boosts them.

My friend took 4 Zzap guns and 1 Traktor Kannon in each artillery unit (he took 3 units). That worked pretty well. Big Meks stood back in them and fired the Shock Attack Gun and when it was anti-air time, the Big Mek could switch units by having one move close to him, or stay, his choice. So there probably was an opening at that point. But I mean...

I dunno. I dont think Ork Artillery is that fragile unless you're not using the Big Meks.

re: Mek Gun Leadership.
And that is why they created Meks. Put a Mek(small) with a Rokkit in with each Mek gun squad to raise their leadership. He can use his rokkit at most of the types of things the gunz are targeting.

re: Mixed Squads of Mek Gunz.
I'm not convinced that Kustom Mega Kannons work well joined to Tracktor Kannons. Any time the Tractor Kannon fires at a flier or FMC, the KMK can't shoot. That is a bummer. Instead, Consider regular Kannons alongside Tractor Kannons. They are cheap ablative wounds, and can still contribute against air.

If you run the following:
Mek (Rokkit)
joint to
5 Mek gunz (2 Kannons, 3 Traktor Kannons, 3 Ammo Runts, 5 extra Gretchin) Total 176 points.

You have a Leadership 7, 26 wound anti-flier / anti-skimmer unit that cant take 8 wounds before having to even take a leadership test if you arrange them right.
G G G K G K <- Must kill all of those to force a leadership test.

If you can pull off that arrangement in ruins, even 5 Flyrants don't have enough statistical firepower to force you to take a leadership test in one round. (7.26 unsaved wounds from devourers).

RE: FMC's want to be grounded.
Orks Want to assault. Make sure that you've got something ready to assault if a FMC does get grounded, even if it is just a one turn tarpit. A good idea is to conga-line a few guys back during movement so that if the FMC gets grounded, you can assault it, but if not, you've still got an alternative assault option. That keeps it on the ground long enough to bring sufficient fire power to bear to kill it.

If the above-mentioned grounded flyer is also threat enough to want dead badly enough... all a player needs to then do is call their Waaagh turn (if possible), and odds are good that Manz in a transport, or even remotely nearby will be able to finish off the work the Traktor did to bring the thing down. :-p

It's a matter of preference, but i prefer my meks eating challenges on the front and gunz are cheap enough to be left without ld7. When i see the enemy's not going to threaten my nobz and bosses - meks are free to go anywhere including gunz.

Meks what taken with Mekaniaks rule cannot leave unit, so they can't join mek gunz in rhe middle of battle

sure, that happens before the game

How are warbikers in this Ed? I'm eager to try and make a couple squads

I have 10 Warbikerz. They dont seem AS good as they should be when Im fighting them but I havent played AS them yet.

traktor kannon good.

I have a lot of old gorka morka bikers, but have yet to use them this edition :(

was hoping for a kult of speed formation or something.

I was hoping more supplements or formations for Orks this edition simply because of the other ork clans not covered. Feral orks, kult of speed, even snakebites. Even updated ork models.

That's my one gripe, the Formations just aren't very good compared to other races. There's only one or two that are usable.

There are no "small" formations, of just a few squads. You really need to theme the whole force around it.

Deepstriking 46 Stormboyz? Even with a 6" run can't spread out.
21 Flashgitz (so they can't go in a wagon) with MasterCrafted (so you can't roll your dice together).
Dreadmob is over 1.5k

There are just no small cheap bolt-on formations, that the other races got.

The Sanctus Reach Campaign has a few small formations like:

Krumpa's Killa Kans (3x Kans, one of which is a character and counts as a dread for the purposes of regrouping and cowardly grots).

Skrak's Skull Nobz (5X nobz, one of which is a character).

Mogrok's Boss Boyz (3 BigMek's, 1 Warboss and a Weirdboy (LV2 Mastery)).

Gorkanaut Krushin Krew (3x Gorkanauts that will be very deadly if they survive turn 4 and beyond as they get Furious Charge, Hatred and Shred as the game progresses).

There are a few restrictions for these formations and I'm not sure how good they function. Also the last one is expensive points wise.

I think we have closest to bolt on is grukk's telly ports formation. It's dissapiinting though that the units involved are pretty lacklustre. Bare bones nobs, random kans, and grots? I want to try it in a game, but almost afraid to

The Imperial Answer wrote:
The Sanctus Reach Campaign has a few small formations like:

Krumpa's Killa Kans (3x Kans, one of which is a character and counts as a dread for the purposes of regrouping and cowardly grots).

Skrak's Skull Nobz (5X nobz, one of which is a character).

Those two aren't Formations, they're units. There is one Formation that combines them all though.
The Kans have a terrible load out.
The Nobz aren't very special compared to normal ones.

Mogrok's Boss Boyz (3 BigMek's, 1 Warboss and a Weirdboy (LV2 Mastery)).

Handy if you want a load of characters, but does force you to have a Mek as a Warlord.

Gorkanaut Krushin Krew (3x Gorkanauts that will be very deadly if they survive turn 4 and beyond as they get Furious Charge, Hatred and Shred as the game progresses).

Gets expensive, would be nice if you could throw a Morkanaut in there.

What about Ghazghkull's Bullyboyz ? It seems expensive but it seems like a good idea. Can never go wrong with meganobz.

No. I would like to confirm that NO, you cannot at any time go wrong with Meganobz.

The Imperial Answer wrote:
The Sanctus Reach Campaign has a few small formations like:

Krumpa's Killa Kans (3x Kans, one of which is a character and counts as a dread for the purposes of regrouping and cowardly grots).

Skrak's Skull Nobz (5X nobz, one of which is a character).

Mogrok's Boss Boyz (3 BigMek's, 1 Warboss and a Weirdboy (LV2 Mastery)).

Gorkanaut Krushin Krew (3x Gorkanauts that will be very deadly if they survive turn 4 and beyond as they get Furious Charge, Hatred and Shred as the game progresses).

There are a few restrictions for these formations and I'm not sure how good they function. Also the last one is expensive points wise.

the stormclaw has only 1 formation, the rest are actually dataslates that you can fit into slots for any ork formation/detachment.

ie the kanz and skull nobz = not formations.

icon in the top left isnt the three skulls in a circle = formation/detachment it is a slot icon.

and I should read all the posts because that was already stated, thanks Grendel!

Meganobz also survive the turbulence of a Trukk ride (that is the enemy blasting the thing out from under you) better than normal orks do at times. And once you get them to the target, killsawz in hand, the target is usually no more after a turn or two of assault. They also work good with Grotsnik who can give them Fnp, Rampage and Fearless assuming I am reading this correctly.

I think I just cried a little tear of happiness.