How do you kill this unit?

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**whipthorn**

Stormraven is a bad idea. Those RW Command bikers have TL plasma talons that can glance or pen that flyer to death before you could gesture enough to hurt their feelings.

Play to the weaknesses of the unit.

IH bikes still have to take dangerous terrain tests, and there should be plenty of difficult terrain on the field to cause them to make those rolls. Also, with IH bikes, there's no bonus to Jink saves. With 5+ cover or invul saves, and such low armor saves (2+) grav-guns will work wonders without too much spammage.

As for the DA they are stuck in, they don't have SS, and only FNP to keep them alive.

I would say a Chapter Master's special weapon would do nicely in this situation. Use Orbital bombardment to nuke them before they can get into the RW Command Squad for FNP.

**Desubot**

Wait i thought they where using RW bikes not IH ones

its a RW unit with IH CMs

Best non imperium option i can think of would be all the hell drakes all the time.

position your self so that you kill regular chumps first.
Then onces the space is cleared out chuck as many shots as you can into it.

**Opera**

Psychic Shriek!

**Desubot**

Shreks through invul saves is hard.
that and at LD10 at best you will do a few wounds.

**GoliothOnline**

Anggrath pitties the poor loyalists and their motor-toys.

**astro_nomicon**

lel and they're probably about even in points cost. Too bad you can't take Anggrath until Apoc sized games anyway :(

**Jancoran**

Grey Templar wrote:
Ok, I've been running into the following unit and I am having an insanely difficult time dealing with it with my GKs.

2 Ironhands Chapter Masters on bikes. One with the Shield Eternal, one with regular SS, both with TH and Artificer Armor.

The above guys are stuck in a Ravenwing Command squad along with a DA Librarian on a bike.

The two chapter masters are always up front and have each other be the closest model so they can LoS to each other. They have IWND and FnP from the Ravenwing Apothecary, and even if I kill the Apothecary they still have 6+ FnP for being Ironhands.

The only solution I can come up with, that has a realistic chance of working, is just to run as many GK librarians as possible and hope for multiple VoD so I can hammer them with a bunch of StrD templates and pin them in place with the impassable terrain a Vortex creates.

why not just get behind them and in front of them. Now their leaders cant do anything to save their buddies in the back.

**Desubot**

You also could chuck something equally silly like a unit of THSS BA terminators with an attached IG Priest and a GK Lib for 2++ Rerollables in combat.

**hellpato**

You need a lots of infantries, lots of shootings and play the dice luck.

**GKTiberius**

Also a purifier spam could be beneficial. That would be a lot of hits to shirk off. especially if you put two full combat squaded squads there. That would be essentially 8d6 attacks, math hammer says that is should at least be 28-32 attacks. even if you dont kill both chapter masters it will kill a lot in the unit.

**Lobokai**

Ally in inquisitiors and henchmen. At fewer points a squad of crusaders/DCA/priests etc will wreck this. Shove them in a Landraider and lols. Fits with your GK theme too.

**marinecorpstim**

Grey Knights all the way....
w Nemesis Dreadknight w psilencers.. 12 str 4 shots each with instadeath...

Also... shunt in and use your awesome OTHER force weapon (see sword) and smash :-)

PEW PEWY PEW PEW! GRAAAHHH SMASH OH NOOO!

**Lobokai**

Lobukia wrote:
Ally in inquisitiors and henchmen. At fewer points a squad of crusaders/DCA/priests etc will wreck this. Shove them in a Landraider and lols. Fits with your GK theme too.

Wait, are DCA PS only now, cause if so, nm.

**Peregrine**

Grey Templar wrote:
Due to the missions we use(they're custom missions) I usually cannot ignore this unit and just kill everything else.

Well there's your problem. Don't play missions that are tailored to your opponent's strengths and give them a huge advantage.

**hellpato**

If you cannot kill them, you can denied him all mouvement.

You need thudd guns, griffons, basilisks, medusas, bombards, snipers, mortars, every thing that made him go to ground or pinning test. What ever he gots FNP or 2++ save, if he doesn't move, is not dangerous

**Desubot**

I believe something in there makes it fearless. Oh also i though bikes cant get pinned ether. (something about never being able to GTG or something) i might be wrong

**ThatSwellFella**

Vortex of doom? If you roll a 6 to wound he can kiss his cm's goodbye

**Razerous**

RoF weapons from behind. Engage the unit at +1" and prevent movement, force a super-short ranged charge (don't assault, just move to within +1").

Whilst killing models is ideal, denying movement & good targets is nearly as good for such a point dense unit. Take adventure of the non jetbike/jump infantry status.

**Desubot**

ThatSwellFella wrote:
Vortex of doom? If you roll a 6 to wound he can kiss his cm's goodbye

Or he chucks a RW chump into to save his life

**koooaei**

Conscripts with a priest or comissar. For 1/3 the points of his squad you're tarpitting him the whole game. And even pulling a couple of wounds in the process.

**Trasvi**

My go-to answer for Deathstars is the Masque of Slaanesh.
The Masque, add in 2 units of horrors so you can summon in a new unit every turn to feed to the enemy if needed. 300pts max, and it takes 1000pts out of the game.

**BoomWolf**

Yep, Masque with "dance of caging" is the ultimate "F you" to all melee deathstars, good luck trying to assault anything when you movement and assault distances are mere D3s

The problem is you need to protect him from shooting somehow, as he is quite fragile. (T3 2W with 5++ rerollable is NOT amazing, even the deathstart itself might shot it down!)

**Tyfus**

Sadly GK without ally is just not very good.

The bikestar is a competitive build. People also use bikes and thunderwolfs together.

GK need a ally to compete. One of the few good armies is the GK centurionstar. They kill that star easy if you get ignore cover from divination. Even without it, it's hard for the bikestar. Use gate to get to the other side of the star than the tanking chapter masters.

So; draigo, librarian, a troop, 2 dreadknights, tiggy, scouts and cents.

**SGTPozy**

Tyfus wrote:
Sadly GK without ally is just not very good.

The bikestar is a competitive build. People also use bikes and thunderwolfs together.

GK need a ally to compete. One of the few good armies is the GK centurionstar. They kill that star easy if you get ignore cover from divination. Even without it, it's hard for the bikestar. Use gate to get to the other side of the star than the tanking chapter masters.

So; draigo, librarian, a troop, 2 dreadknights, tiggy, scouts and cents.

What are you talking about? GKs are really competitive on their own with their annoying alpha strike and cheesy dreadknights, allies just make them even cheesier and extremely OP.

**Tyfus**

SGTPozy wrote:
Tyfus wrote:
Sadly GK without ally is just not very good.

The bikestar is a competitive build. People also use bikes and thunderwolfs together.

GK need a ally to compete. One of the few good armies is the GK centurionstar. They kill that star easy if you get ignore cover from divination. Even without it, it's hard for the bikestar. Use gate to get to the other side of the star than the tanking chapter masters.

So; draigo, librarian, a troop, 2 dreadknights, tiggy, scouts and cents.

What are you talking about? GKs are really competitive on their own with their annoying alpha strike and cheesy dreadknights, allies just make them even cheesier and extremely OP.

Nope i disagree. It's only a few good units in the codex and not enough for pure GK-army. Mind you i'm talking about competitive play in GT. For funny games or pick-up games everything goes.

There has been a lot of big/medium GT now. I don't know of a single of those GTs where pure GK has placed well. There is however some GTs where GK centurionstar has placed good among top 10. Nova open invitaional was won by GK centurionstar. Pure GK is dead in competitive play IMO.

Since my main army is GK i would prefered this was not true.

Edit: and a centurionstar is hardly more cheesy than a fully kitted bikestar as the OP mentioned. Don't bring a knife to a gunfight !

**BoomWolf**

So its pretty much any other "pure" army that does not rely on a one-trick-pony of an OP unit. your point?

When you got the option to mix-and-match or stick to a single type, the mix will be superior by default unless it carries such penalties it just not worth it, and its true in EVERY system.

The more sources you use, by default you get more power, as you cherry pick the best bits available from each one.

**GKTiberius**

Agreed. I honestly cant see how anyone can think that Mono GK is OP in any way. Dreadknights are rough, but everything else is middling at best. The AP3 force swords work well against character and multi wound MC's but really are basically power weapons against 1 wound models. also with the new psyker rules it is harder to allocate that 1 point per squad for force. Adding in allies (specifically for Drop Pods) does make it exponentially stronger, but that is true of most armies. look at eldar / tau or Chaos/ daemons or IG and SM or IG and Chaos. using multiple codecies allow you to plug up gaps on mono codex armies.

**Furyou Miko**

Get behind them or swamp them in so many bodies that they can't hit and run because there's no avenue to flee through.

**SkrawnyNob**

Grey Templar wrote:

If they attack a Dreadknight, the guy with the Shield Eternal challenges and I flail uselessly against him while everyone gets to still hit the DK.

I don't have any better advice than what has been offered so far. I just want to make sure this scenario is being played correctly. The NDK does not have the Character type. He cannot issue nor accept challenges.
Not sure if this helps in that situation. Maybe the NDK takes out 3-4 bodyguards and then it'll be easier for him to survive. Although it would be better if the NDK assaulted along with another unit of Terminators or something. At that points level you should really be able to double-team him, which is always something that should be considered over 1v1 matchups. No 2 units exist in a vacuum; use all the units you brought to the table.

**Desubot**

SkrawnyNob wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:

If they attack a Dreadknight, the guy with the Shield Eternal challenges and I flail uselessly against him while everyone gets to still hit the DK.

I don't have any better advice than what has been offered so far. I just want to make sure this scenario is being played correctly. The NDK does not have the Character type. He cannot issue nor accept challenges.
Not sure if this helps in that situation. Maybe the NDK takes out 3-4 bodyguards and then it'll be easier for him to survive. Although it would be better if the NDK assaulted along with another unit of Terminators or something. At that points level you should really be able to double-team him, which is always something that should be considered over 1v1 matchups. No 2 units exist in a vacuum; use all the units you brought to the table.

To add to it as well actually.

If you are charging in first make sure to hit a unit of regular doods instead of the CM. they will have to pile in at I1 giving you a chance to take out a bunch of the body guards.