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 JOHIRA wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, that makes sense.
It did seem that the UCM ships are better at straight up fire fights, much like the UCM in DZC, the Hawk Wargames guy did have some outstanding bad luck.

It was just suprising to see the scourge get absolutely demolished like that.

Let's also remember they were playing a game essentially with no strategic elements - it was a tiny board with objectives close together near the center. At those short distances the energy signatures aren't really a factor so there was no disincentive for lighting up with "Weapons Free!" at the first opportunity. I almost wonder if Simon wasn't intentionally making tactically unwise choices to facilitate showing the rules and getting the BoW guy excited. If he had made a slower, more spread-out approach, he could have baited BoW-guy into going weapons free at one target while the rest of his fleet was out of range, and then counterattacked the UCM ship from outside their range. It would have been a fun game, but it would have made a terrible Kickstarter video.

That is a good point. It is possible that he was holding back.
It would be interesting to see a proper game.
Maybe Blue Table Painting will showcase some detailed games, like they did with DZC.

Do we still hate Blue Table Painting?

I think even with tactical play, the dice clearly hated Simon.

 MrDwhitey wrote:
Do we still hate Blue Table Painting?

I think even with tactical play, the dice clearly hated Simon.

I was not aware that we hated BTP

There's a topic here - and BTP isn't it.

 MrDwhitey wrote:
Do we still hate Blue Table Painting?

I think even with tactical play, the dice clearly hated Simon.

Ironically, I just posted in this "hello dakka" thread warning others about BTP.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/669609.page

Hate? Nah, that's too strong. I get wierded out by Shawn occasionally. But trust them to do a competent job when their terms of service say that can effectively hand you something painted to any random quality whenever they choose no matter what you actually contracted them to do and when? No way. I'd never use BTP unless I lived in the same town as Shawn so that I could follow the progress personally and address the concerns politely but firmly in person as well.

I am really liking how this kick-starter is going they are successful but Hawk is not letting it go to their heads. Even though there are a ton of whiners wanting to get as much stuff as they can for as little as possible. Way to go Hawk War Games. Makes me feel secure in my backing it. I fell that I will actually get what they promise, unlike a lot of other kick-starters.

I agree. I know they are a small company as well so it is good to they are behaving sensibly as a false move or two could bring them all crashing down.

Hopefully, it also helps push DZC's popularity as well.

Have we seen pics/concepts/etc. for ships larger than 'cruiser' size yet?

Yeah, there's the "Beijing Class Battleship" for the UCM.

 Alpharius wrote:
Have we seen pics/concepts/etc. for ships larger than 'cruiser' size yet?

Its been linked a few times in this thread already, a mod not paying attention?

Dreadnoughts keep getting mentioned but there is no information on them at the moment, although the Beijing is apparently the physically largest model that Hawk are, or at least were, planning to make.

This Mod thought that was a 'cruiser', so if it isn't, I guess I wasn't paying attention?

Dreadnaughts will be batlleship-size but differently armed.

In an older interview IIRC on beast of war, they said that Beijing class would be the largest category you see in the game.

So how many hull sizes are there going to be then?

Frigate -> Cruiser -> Battleship?

Battleship size fits all battle cruisers, battle ships, and dreadnoughts? Cruisers are light crusiers, cruisers, and carriers? Frigates are strike frigates, missile frigates and standard?

nedTCM wrote:
So how many hull sizes are there going to be then?

Frigate -> Cruiser -> Battleship?

Battleship size fits all battle cruisers, battle ships, and dreadnoughts? Cruisers are light crusiers, cruisers, and carriers? Frigates are strike frigates, missile frigates and standard?

The economy of design in this style is just brilliant. A single kit to make all cruisers was one of the best things about BFGs Imperial and Chaos ships. I don't know how easy these will be to magnetize, but there is just an elegance to having one kit able to construct so many visibly different ships that really appeals to me. That they found a way to do it with the small escorts is great- but extending that up the larger battleships/dreadnoughts battlecruisers is phenomenal.

I'd love it if they can come up with a combined Battlecruiser/Battleship sprue (not for the kickstarter obviously, but for general release). They could also use some resin add-on components to build dreadnoughts off of the same hull. That would definately be an awesome way for them to spend some of the extra money their taking in. Plastic is just so much easier to work with then the old BFG metal bowling balls (aka battleships).

 warboss wrote:
In an older interview IIRC on beast of war, they said that Beijing class would be the largest category you see in the game.

If memory serves they said Battleships would be the longest ship class, but there existed the possibility of Dreadnoughts and such being more massive - ie something like two battleship hulls side by side, makes the ship more bulky but the same overall length and height

Regarding the gameplay video, isn't the game still being playtested? I would assume that the stats being used in that video may not be the ones that make it into the final game.

Yeah the stats and rules are still being tested out so the vids are more to give you a feel of the rules than the final version.

There will be dreadnoughts but not sure how big they will be.

As for hull sizes from what I have heard frigates-destroyers-cruisers-battle cruiser-battleship-dreadnought so by my guess 6 size classes or 6 sizes of hull.

Historically dreadnoughts were smaller than battleships (as dreadnoughts were in fact the first battleships and were ultimately replaced by battleships), and gkven the "hard scifi" approach of Hawk I would be surprised if they went this route with DfC.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Historically dreadnoughts were smaller than battleships (as dreadnoughts were in fact the first battleships and were ultimately replaced by battleships), and gkven the "hard scifi" approach of Hawk I would be surprised if they went this route with DfC.

Dreadnoughts were heavier and usually went all big guns, where as battleships were mixed calibre guns. Looking at the battleship above, it's got a mixture of rail gun sizes. I reckon the dreadnought class will be bigger and will have all the heaviest weapons.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Historically dreadnoughts were smaller than battleships (as dreadnoughts were in fact the first battleships and were ultimately replaced by battleships), and gkven the "hard scifi" approach of Hawk I would be surprised if they went this route with DfC.

Battleships existed prior to Dreadnought, but the idea of using just big, long-range guns and wide fire arcs of turrets was seen as so revolutionary it made every other battleship obsolete because the way naval battles were to be fought was forever altered based on that and the Japanese victories in the Russo-Japanese War. There was no need to close with the enemy, so secondary armament was not needed which simplified logistics and fire control. Pretty much every major navy agreed and the battleship was scrapped. The era of the Dreadnought (as later "battleships" are really following in that design mold so for the DFC discussion they would be Dreadnoughts and not battleships) lasted for not quite 40 years. Carriers would obviously replace them as the key to naval supremacy during World War 2, and have held that role for twice as long just for context.

So, in a hard sci-fi sense, the battleships should have reasonable speed, a few hefty guns and a good amount of close action weapons. Their design revolves around trading a few shots at range and closing in to bring their close action weapons to bear. The Dreadnoughts would be bigger and have some massive main batteries, but very little close action and need to stand off. They would be roughly the same size relative to each other, as they're not so much different classes as different design philosophies.

The Battleships would be tactically variable, where you could use a variety of commands and avoid the worst spikes while still being effective in combat. Dreadnoughts would need to be Weapons Free for maximum usefulness as they rely on the big guns, which means they would want to be at the limit of range to avoid getting blasted by every enemy ship on the board due to the Major Spike.

That's how I see things playing out given the historical context, and that does sound like a fun and interesting game both in list-building and on the table.

 NTRabbit wrote:

 warboss wrote:
In an older interview IIRC on beast of war, they said that Beijing class would be the largest category you see in the game.

If memory serves they said Battleships would be the longest ship class, but there existed the possibility of Dreadnoughts and such being more massive - ie something like two battleship hulls side by side, makes the ship more bulky but the same overall length and height

That would be perfect - I don't want super gigantic ships, but just adding to their bulk in a similar board footprint would be fantastic

Our local group is now splitting a Captain AND a Commodore pledge! Really nice that they added that option, and probably good for them too as it gets more people adding all the exclusive battlecruisers which I would think are a good return on investment for Hawk.

I'd be more than OK with 'super gigantic ships' making an appearance...

Well, just from experience seeing some Firestorm Armada ships... I mean, these things can get crazy-town sized. Same for the huge (3 base?) ships in Halo Fleet Battles, or the even bigger ships in Star Wars X-wing. It just seems to me to sacrifice playability a bit... so while it wouldn't hurt, I'd much rather see a bulkier class at a playable size first.

 Alpharius wrote:
I'd be more than OK with 'super gigantic ships' making an appearance...

Spartan Games is in agreement!



I know the big ship Hawk made was actually in DZC scale and not DFC scale but I say that ship and the Covenant Super Carrier fight it out!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 RiTides wrote:
Well, just from experience seeing some Firestorm Armada ships... I mean, these things can get crazy-town sized. Same for the huge (3 base?) ships in Halo Fleet Battles, or the even bigger ships in Star Wars X-wing. It just seems to me to sacrifice playability a bit... so while it wouldn't hurt, I'd much rather see a bulkier class at a playable size first.

I guess it would depend on the mobility. I haven't seen any demo videos yet with massive ships (likely because they're not out yet... no one taped any Gencon or Salute videos with them). If they just "sit there" like a giant hedgehodge bristling with guns then it might not be very fun. Given what Hawk is doing with DZC and the new bigger special characters (like the very nice Phoenix command gunship flier thing) and that terrain space gun objective model, I'd expect some sort of huge Scourge World Ship or a UCM mobile starport in the future.

Just uploaded

£310k - Collectors Edition 2 up KS Exclusive UCMF Atlantis model (256mm length) - More info and visuals to be shown very soon!

Definitely a blah optional extra, nice for the 100% collectors. Pass on that one I think

I'm not sure I even now what that is - so...what is it?

If you meant the stretch goal, it's just a bigger version of the exclusive UCM battlecruiser (a "2-up" meaning it's scaled to twice it's normal size, so actually out of scale with the game).

(if you meant the spoiler'ed pic above, it's a big ship that Spartan had for their booth showing Halo Fleet Battles at GenCon, so not related to this game)

I meant the first one - thanks!

While I've got you here...

I've heard some concerns about DZC in that, while the miniatures are great, the gameplay quickly became boring and/or too 'samey'.

Any concerns of that happening here?